We know.

[gaffo]

I do think "logic" is over rated and just an another animal instinct (just a newer one the man and maybe a couple of "higher" animals (apes/dalphins/etc) may have.

not related to any "truth" in the least.

imo of course.

I think it may be related to truth. Or not related. But to prove that it's not related is just as hard or impossible as to prove that logic is related to truth.

Both a possibilities that defy verification by man.

concur, i think there is too much hubris in man myself, some humility- do not know or will ever know is apt.

in the next realm? if there is a next - not worth my time to ponder for not knowable either.

God willing - if there are Gods, then let it be so.

if not, then so be it as well.

all such things is outside be my nature and not worth my time to ponder IMO.

peace to you Sir. and thanks for reply. you have a mind and so appreciate discussion with. (even if it is with myself -solipsist - lol)

[socrat44]

  Dark Energy = Cosmic Zero Vacuum
===
1 - Dark energy is an essential part of cosmology today
2 - Dark energy is just pure energy
3 - In the early state of universe's evolution Dark energy
was dominated
4 - Dark energy is not relative, it is constant structure / stuff . . .
5 - Dark energy permeates the universe
6 - Dark energy distribution is always smooth
7 - Dark energy does not become more dilute when
the universe expands
8 - Dark energy exists even if no actual particles or other
stuff is around
9 - Dark energy is not carried by particles or matter
10 - The density (cosmological constant) of Dark energy is very low
11 - The density of Dark energy is the same everywhere, remains
the same over time (it can be no denser in one region than another)
12 - Dark energy is very different from dark matter, which
collects into objects and will be denser in some place
than in others
#
My opinion
All these proportions have the Cosmic Zero Vacuum (T=0K)
=======
REFERENCE
Book: Dark matter and the Dinosaurs
by Lisa Randall
=====

[-1-]

  Dark Energy = Cosmic Zero Vacuum
===
1 - Dark energy is an essential part of cosmology today
2 - Dark energy is just pure energy
3 - In the early state of universe's evolution Dark energy
was dominated
4 - Dark energy is not relative, it is constant structure / stuff . . .
5 - Dark energy permeates the universe
6 - Dark energy distribution is always smooth
7 - Dark energy does not become more dilute when
the universe expands
8 - Dark energy exists even if no actual particles or other
stuff is around
9 - Dark energy is not carried by particles or matter
10 - The density (cosmological constant) of Dark energy is very low
11 - The density of Dark energy is the same everywhere, remains
the same over time (it can be no denser in one region than another)
12 - Dark energy is very different from dark matter, which
collects into objects and will be denser in some place
than in others
#
My opinion
All these proportions have the Cosmic Zero Vacuum (T=0K)
=======
REFERENCE
Book: Dark matter and the Dinosaurs
by Lisa Randall
=====

Dark energy... it is an entity we created in our minds, to account for observed phenomena we can't explain. What it IS is unknown; what it does is known, and is accounted for, for we put a whole bunch of "does"-es and called them the effect of "dark energy".

In fact, dark energy is defined by us, we attribute tasks to it, without knowing what it is, or if even exists.

------------------------

Bit like schizophrenia and other mental illnesses. We associate a bunch of symptoms and correlate their frequency of occurrance, and call sicknesses names that we think are typical with one or another cluster of syndromes. But 80 percent of mental patients suffer from more than one symptome-defined diseases. This may mean that our classification system is ineffective, because the mind and mental diseases defy classification.

Dark Matter is the collective "cause" of phenomena we can't explain. It is not something that "is". It may very well be something that "is", but there is no proof or evidence of it. For the time being dark matter is defined by its actions, or effects, and we ourselves gave the effects to it as attributes.

[-1-]

concur, i think there is too much hubris in man myself, some humility- do not know or will ever know is apt.

I don't think man as a collective knower of things across the species and man's belief in its own abilities is hubris.

I think it is more a case of "I calls them as I sees them".

There is nothing out there that seems to be smarter than us. Is it hubris to think we are the smartest there is? Well, the possibilities say there may be or there for sure are smarter things, but since we never met it, or felt its effects, we are safe to say "we're the smartest".

True, we ought to say "to our experience, we are the smartest", but that states the obvious.

Should we not be proud of being the smartest? I think we should be. After all, we worked our way to the top of the food chain, no natural enemies, we are our own sole enemy (that's how we got to be so smart, in the first place... competing and warring against other tribes, the smarter of the two always won, the smarts were the fitness that made us survive).

Humility for the winner is a false, pretentious lie. A winner lacking humility is repulsive.

You just cannot win, can you.

[gaffo]

True, we ought to say "to our experience, we are the smartest", but that states the obvious.

this is my view.

and per "the smartest" vs other semi-sentient animals here on earth to date............ya, and?

so what.

Earth has another billion yrs of life in it, one billion is a long time.

man will be gone in 10,000 yrs or so - or whatever is here by that time will no longer be man anyway (genetic engineering /etc.) personally I think "man" - as in folks like you and me - will be dead in 1000 yrs - by then another "man" will be popuiating this earth (much smarter - so smart that to call them men is like you and me calling a chimp a man).

but affirming the "longer view" - earth will outlive man/"man" - the sun will eventually set on man and "man"................10,000 yrs vs orders of magnitude longer 1,000,000 yrs. whatever "man" me make in the future will die like all others creatures -due to time/climate/etc............

then other Raccoon/Bear/dog/cat/etc..........whatever has the time to evolve hands. to play the same game as man (a billion yrs is a LONG TIME - long enough for this "play" to repeat itself 10 times!), and affirm the same hubristic folly (we raccoons now all being the top of the ecosystem/etc).

this is my longterm view of things, and i think most likely.

and no, i do not think the Raccoons of 10,000,000 hence ruling this world will now more than us or any foolish "next" replacement of them.

then when you think of smaller stars - where any Earths and related life reside - 10-100 times longer stallar life allowed than here -----well then when you think about intelligence per that environment............................when we/"man"/ the Racoons of 10,000,000 hense............and the next 9 repleacements until the Earth becomes too hot to allow life (and the smaller stars still allow life to evolve on thier Earths for infinatley more time without trouble)...................will such beings around such stars given near 1/2 trilion yrs to life and evolve, will become beings a trillion times more inteligent than any and all of the animals residing here on earth - now a cold and dead and lifeless planet revolving around a cold and dead white dwarf.

Should we not be proud of being the smartest?

no, not if one is perceptive.

[socrat44]

  Dark Energy = Cosmic Zero Vacuum
===
1 - Dark energy is an essential part of cosmology today
2 - Dark energy is just pure energy
3 - In the early state of universe's evolution Dark energy
was dominated
4 - Dark energy is not relative, it is constant structure / stuff . . .
5 - Dark energy permeates the universe
6 - Dark energy distribution is always smooth
7 - Dark energy does not become more dilute when
the universe expands
8 - Dark energy exists even if no actual particles or other
stuff is around
9 - Dark energy is not carried by particles or matter
10 - The density (cosmological constant) of Dark energy is very low
11 - The density of Dark energy is the same everywhere, remains
the same over time (it can be no denser in one region than another)
12 - Dark energy is very different from dark matter, which
collects into objects and will be denser in some place
than in others
#
My opinion
All these proportions have the Cosmic Zero Vacuum (T=0K)
=======
REFERENCE
Book: Dark matter and the Dinosaurs
by Lisa Randall
=====

   Another hidden scenario of Zero Vacuum
====
Book:  ''' Stephan Hawking, A life in science,''
/ by Michael White and John Gribbin./
#
''Together with Brandon Carter and Jim Bardeen, Hawking
wrote a paper, published in Communications in Mathematical
Physics , pointing out . . . . . the team commented,
'' In fact the effective temperature of a black hole is
absolute zero . . . .  No radiation could be emitted from the hole.''
    / page 156./
But later  (!) , . . using concept of entropy and
Heisenberg uncertainty principle and quantum fluctuations (!)
Hawking changed his mind and wrote that black hole can emit
  ( Hawking radiation )
#
So, in the beginning (according to calculations) the ''black hole''
had absolute zero temperature  T=0K  but  . . .  thanks to entropy,
HUP and quantum  fluctuations (Hawking radiations) was arisen.
In others words:
''black holes'' are micro- scheme of  absolute zero vacuum: T=0K
''black hole'' is only another name of the  ''true vacuum'' : T=0K
=========
P.S.
1 - A black hole has a temperature within a few
millionths of a degree above absolute zero: T=0K
/ Oxford. Dictionary./
2 - A stellar black hole of one solar mass has a Hawking
temperature of about 100 nanokelvins. This is far less
than the 2.7 K temperature of the cosmic microwave background
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole
3 - ''Previous Picture of the Day articles about black holes
suggested that the terminology used to describe
“gravitational point sources” is highly speculative: space/time,
singularities, and infinite density are abstract concepts,
precluding a realistic investigation into the nature of the Universe.''
/ Black hole theory contradicts itself, by Stephen Smith. Oct 12, 2011 /
========

Wells.jpg (13.64 KiB) Viewed 1940 times

[socrat44]

  Dark Energy = Cosmic Zero Vacuum
===
1 - Dark energy is an essential part of cosmology today
2 - Dark energy is just pure energy
3 - In the early state of universe's evolution Dark energy
was dominated
4 - Dark energy is not relative, it is constant structure / stuff . . .
5 - Dark energy permeates the universe
6 - Dark energy distribution is always smooth
7 - Dark energy does not become more dilute when
the universe expands
8 - Dark energy exists even if no actual particles or other
stuff is around
9 - Dark energy is not carried by particles or matter
10 - The density (cosmological constant) of Dark energy is very low
11 - The density of Dark energy is the same everywhere, remains
the same over time (it can be no denser in one region than another)
12 - Dark energy is very different from dark matter, which
collects into objects and will be denser in some place
than in others
#
My opinion
All these proportions have the Cosmic Zero Vacuum (T=0K)
=======
REFERENCE
Book: Dark matter and the Dinosaurs
by Lisa Randall
=====

   Another hidden scenario of Zero Vacuum
====
Book:  ''' Stephan Hawking, A life in science,''
/ by Michael White and John Gribbin./
#
''Together with Brandon Carter and Jim Bardeen, Hawking
wrote a paper, published in Communications in Mathematical
Physics , pointing out . . . . . the team commented,
'' In fact the effective temperature of a black hole is
absolute zero . . . .  No radiation could be emitted from the hole.''
    / page 156./
But later  (!) , . . using concept of entropy and
Heisenberg uncertainty principle and quantum fluctuations (!)
Hawking changed his mind and wrote that black hole can emit
  ( Hawking radiation )
#
So, in the beginning (according to calculations) the ''black hole''
had absolute zero temperature  T=0K  but  . . .  thanks to entropy,
HUP and quantum  fluctuations (Hawking radiations) was arisen.
In others words:
''black holes'' are micro- scheme of  absolute zero vacuum: T=0K
''black hole'' is only another name of the  ''true vacuum'' : T=0K
=========
P.S.
1 - A black hole has a temperature within a few
millionths of a degree above absolute zero: T=0K
/ Oxford. Dictionary./
2 - A stellar black hole of one solar mass has a Hawking
temperature of about 100 nanokelvins. This is far less
than the 2.7 K temperature of the cosmic microwave background
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole
3 - ''Previous Picture of the Day articles about black holes
suggested that the terminology used to describe
“gravitational point sources” is highly speculative: space/time,
singularities, and infinite density are abstract concepts,
precluding a realistic investigation into the nature of the Universe.''
/ Black hole theory contradicts itself, by Stephen Smith. Oct 12, 2011 /
========

Dark Energy May Be Vacuum
Date:
January 16, 2007
Source:
University of Copenhagen
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 130456.htm
#
https://www.iflscience.com/space/dark-e ... rk-matter/
==============

[gaffo]

concur, i think there is too much hubris in man myself, some humility- do not know or will ever know is apt.

I don't think man as a collective knower of things across the species and man's belief in its own abilities is hubris.

I think it is more a case of "I calls them as I sees them".

agreed, per observation i think there is more evidence for DE than DM myself.

both are prob wrong - not willing to accept DM exists myself - will to maybe DE - due to observations not alinging with thoery of Gravity (which we not less about than the other 4? (we claim to know of) forces of nature)

There is nothing out there that seems to be smarter than us.

non sequitur - space is EMPTY, ask yourself the value of an alien intelligence's interest in contact with others under such distance!

no reason to bother!

so they don't bother.

universe is HUGE - no doubt there is life and Earths and even more intelligent life than man - out there.

but why would such intelligent life take the time and effort to contact Apes (or more aply GERMS! that they assume (rightly) know nothing, and reside millions of lightyears away from them!

no, they - many - trillions of (universe is HUGE) - and are lightyears beyond us by nature............and have no interest in "calling germs" for anwsers we cannot give and they have known for eons anyway!

Is it hubris to think we are the smartest there is?

yes of course it is!

man will destroy himself - more aptly man will make "Super man" via genetic engineering..............and so that product will not longer be "man".

but nonetherless - irrelivant (just understand the nature of TIME!!!!!!!!!! 5 BILLION YRS as a long time!!!!!!!!!) - and "mother earth" will remove whatever superman we make anyway by 10,000=100,000 yrs anyway. We stopped "playing the animal role" first via Fire, then moreso via agriculture - this sealed our fate to death eventually.

of course the next mammal - raccoons, etc (rem, T=I=M-E) to evolve the next sentent beings to populate our earth.

and of course - if they have "hands"/"claws"/etc" will play the same game, engineer themselves into a "Super-form" then Earth will remove them for not "playing nice with enviroment" just like us prior.

20 or cycles until the sun makes life impossible on Earth.

..................

all the while "aliens" are sitting on there worlds with no interest in us germs.

should they have an interest in us or the future sentient raccoons and contact?

i see no reason for them to bother at all.