Hypocrisy against women

[gaffo]

Should I erase my contributions to your thread on the grounds of irrelevancy?

Well, if you start doing that sort of thing, you won't have any posts on the forum.

walker offers insight on music and movies, so his posts there shall remain.

[gaffo]

I've never understood the mentality of calling women "whores" as if that's some terrible insult. What is wrong with a woman having a lot of sex... even if she does it for money? So what? It's business. If a man did it, would HE be a whore... and would that be bad? Or would HE be a good businessman?

A lot of men WANT whores, yet they speak of them in such disparaging terms.

Also, how is it that so many men want their woman to be sexually unlimited like a "personal whore", yet they will still insult such behavior in women in general?

Furthermore, men often hurl the label at women they don't even know, as if it's simply the worst insult they can think of.

It just doesn't make sense to me. It seems archaic and primitive and ignorant. Can anyone here offer more perspective and personal opinion about this?

Men want a classy woman who will be a whore only with them. A proper lady, whom once behind closed doors, can be the woman whom can be open to anything imaginable that they both may desire. They never want to "turn a whore into a housewife" because if she is so willing with him, he can assume with other men too. Also, who is to say that lust for random c*ck will stop once married? I know of a woman who gave blowjobs for rides when she needed to go somewhere, my brother fooled around with her, would he want her as a girlfriend? Hell no. That woman was with other men he knew too, she was easy.
My brother did chose a girlfriend that for many years was his friend, and that woman's friend, and he didn't want to be with her at first because she was easy too, and just as I had expected---she cheated on him.

There isn't anything wrong with a woman or man wanting a lot of sex, but if they ever want to be treated like they are not a piece of meat, they will act like they are not a piece of meat. That is why the sexes in general will be called "whores" when they are only so much human as their genitalia makes them out to be.
I had a friend for a decade that used to be a stripper, she had a boyfriend that was with her and respected her. She could make $500/day some days and was a person you wouldn't ever guess was a pole dancer. She didn't fit the stereotypical trash that would post on tinder or instagram all their scantily clad body-whoring for comments on their supposed beauty. Because she is classy, not a whore. Not a commodity except for onstage, and that is only business.

For the most part, everyone loves sex and would have it often if they could. But I consider whom most people call "whore" if one would be in bed with them would likely walk out with regret, and possibly an STI (keep in mind most infections are without symptoms and many are not tested for unless asked for specifically).
Being easy as a ride from point A to B, and being a receptacle for every Tom, Dick and Harry, or nameless man, doesn't have much value or respect. That goes for men too. There are good women I know, myself included (humble right? hahaha) that if we know a man sleeps around with any one who will want him, we won't touch him. May be a friend, but for the most part can't respect him so won't want to be with him.
How a person carries themselves and respects themselves would determine the respect and value they can garner from others.
A whore is just a play thing.

wisdom Madam.

[gaffo]

What I find messed up is how the same men who WANT a whore, look down on her for being one.

such men can get a real woman, and play the cowards game - knowing they cannot hitch to an honest woman (none with have them) - they play the victim/transferance card.............all women are bitches/whores, its there fault in can't get an good women (none out there - they will say).

transferance comes into play, for down deep they know they are "cads", but instead of looking inward, strike outward for their troubles.

A person either has to stay away from it if they despise it, or have a respectful mindset about it.

most? incels are like that, they cant get laid - unless they lower thier standard - and accept it. others get mean and petty and end up hating women (and/if/when not hating themselves too).

The attitude of USING or abusing a flesh-and-blood being (a sacred soul) and then categorizing THEM as trash is more disgusting than any person's act or reason for using their own body in whatever way they choose.

Furthermore, many men will categorize any woman as a whore if they simply feel contempt for her for any reason. I've had it done to me. It's absurd and primitive -- these are likely very sexually frustrated men who are angry that women's bodies are so off-limit to them. So maybe the man feels more in control by accusing women of being whores as an excuse for why he's not with one. The women simply aren't "good enough"! Yeah, THAT'S what it is!

yes, see above.

[gaffo]

I've never understood the mentality of calling women "whores" as if that's some terrible insult. What is wrong with a woman having a lot of sex... even if she does it for money? So what? It's business. If a man did it, would HE be a whore... and would that be bad? Or would HE be a good businessman?

A lot of men WANT whores, yet they speak of them in such disparaging terms.

Also, how is it that so many men want their woman to be sexually unlimited like a "personal whore", yet they will still insult such behavior in women in general?

Furthermore, men often hurl the label at women they don't even know, as if it's simply the worst insult they can think of.

It just doesn't make sense to me. It seems archaic and primitive and ignorant. Can anyone here offer more perspective and personal opinion about this?

Male 'whores' can't bear their own children but CAN be held liable regardless of choice AFTER the fact of pregnancy. Female 'whores' are usually about women who utilize the same kind of thinking as the male 'whores' but gain relative power as being classed 'victimhood' should they not like the men they are with or 'vulnerably' unliable to predatory behaviors.

I rarely here this word now but "slut" is more popular and often come more from women against other women competitively. The males like this are rare and disturbed but due to their kinds of more noticeability to be harmful, the class, men, are treated as 'owning' the causes of harm against women this way.

I've seen this on both sexes. Oddly, where females do this, today they more often act bipolar by LIKING abusive men AND embracing vulnerability that gets others to DEFEND their honor. I've known such women who literally try to get their men to fight or demean them for being pussies.

The genetic nature of women to require more local protections (say of pregnancy) while men to be transient, and dominant in order to be selected (or have the better chance of being selected) make women who attempt to have both transient/dominance AND stationary/subdominance behaviors are internally treated as being 'hypocritical' and why they are targeted more often. Men who are like this behave more consistent in their behavior by being transient/dominant but are not required to be stationary/subdominant. In fact, contrary to the lipservice of women claiming to be less discriminatory, they often only prefer males who are stationary/subdominant as 'friends' only. The proof is in the population pool: men are preferred by women to be taller and more physically strong and, where rape isn't involved, successfully have more children to keep this distinction genetically true.

yep.

[Eodnhoj7]

You change the word "whore" with "free spirit"...

No, I was responding to the fact that you have used both descriptions for me, as if they are somehow referring to the same thing...which they are not, of course. I am free-spirited in certain ways -- very honorable ways I assure you -- and I have never been a whore.

Sleeping around...is sleeping around. And I am not saying you are a bad person either. One can be a whore and be "good". But it does not change the fact "whoring" is bad. It is rooted in material attachment...and leads to further suffering.

I think you are making an assumption where you think I am better than you...when in all truth I am not. I am not less than you either. This is not a "greater or less than" argument.

If you want to know my sexual "sins" here is one, a recent (relative to a year ago) one. I once fucked a 19-20 year old girl. And "fucked" is the word.


I thought I could provide stability for her and in turn she would do, well what the ideal "woman" can do best, and alleviate some of the pain.

It did not work for a variety of reasons, and I knew I was walking into a bad situation that could go either way from the beginning.

What both of us did was wrong. She is a whore, but it makes me no less guilty.

It was consensual as in she wanted to keep me as a fuck buddy. I did it out of lust, thinking that "lust" would solve my problems...alleviate my own pain an suffering. And it did...like morphine...for a very, very short period of time.

The girl was also a whore, very troubled and painful past. I am an a brutal, cruel, and rageful man. I have made adult men cry, where not through physical force then shear words. I can guarantee, when put in the proper circumstances...I am much more of a "monster" than you are.

It does not make my actions right however. But neither does it make yours.

The world is a tragedy, and we are left turning our own tragedies...our "chaos" so to speak...into light and order. You can use the word "love" in a definition closer to agape.

However I am beginning to wonder if it can even be done alone, even though we all hold responsibility. We are all at the mercy of a God none of us really truly know...or at least I am.


The most one can do is alleviate suffering where they can...but using sex to alleviate that suffering in a context where it causes more suffering...well is just makes matters worse. It is no different than my "anger".

Adultery and murder are the same things.

You are a whore.
Deep down I am angry, lustful and vain.

Neither is good. But it does not make us entirely evil now does it. It just shows a deep degree of pain and suffering. Even if one commits these..."lifestyles" I guess you could say...out of boredom, boredom is still an absence of love.

The most one can do is to get rid of their ego, crucify that part of themselves that gives cause to all that suffering.

As to the rest of what you stated...well hopefully this gives some brief clarity as to the "nature" of reality.

What you call "fun" is just low grade hedonism.

No it's not. You're projecting your distorted and limited view onto me as usual. You would be much more honorable if you stopped acting like you know me, and stopped speaking as if you speak some kind of ultimate cosmic truth about love and fun.

There is more to life and potential than what you know and have experienced.

Actually lust is just a rabbit hole...no different than the other vices. Sleeping around is sleeping around. It is whoring. You claimed or implied that...so that is the nature you give other's to assume. I am not innocent thought either, the above argues a very minute portion of that. What you call "life" is really a series of highs which cause a series of corresponding lows. It is separation at it's root.

We are all raised, both men and women, to view the other as an object of gratification...but it does not work when takes the time to look into the other's eyes, eyes which embody the divine sphere of being itself.

I agree... I just don't think that all people go down that path, regardless of the influences around them. I have never been the kind of person to view anyone as an object to be used. I DO look into a being's eyes, and I cherish their soul/spirit.

Exchanging "love" is sacred, and "fun" is sacred,

Agreed!

...but if you need to use the other person's body to do it...what type of love is that?

Well, it seems that there's a range of what people are capable of -- probably lots of degrees and shades and levels of love. Like anything with humans... some have more clarity and authenticity and ability... while others are more muddled and shallow and needy. I'm sure that range can exist in ANY interaction.

And what does that mean?

Those "connections"...are they really connections when you are dividing the human constitution? To please the body, but to forget the "immortal soul"? You are fooling yourself.

First, let me say that it's tiring dealing with your projections because it takes effort to deal with those before getting to the clarity beyond them.

Yes, my connections with people and animals are very real... and they are experienced in the present moment when they occur... they are not dependent on the past or future... and they are not for the purpose of using anyone in any way. They are truly motivated by love.

And makes these connections so real?

If you cannot accept the person you are with fully, faults and all, to suffer with them...to feel joy with them then your connection is not real.

Degrees to that... like everything. And lots of scenarios for it reasonably turning out in all sorts of ways.

Not always. Walking out on a person, because they are going through a difficult time is still an absence of love on the part of the lover/spouse.

You want to separate eros from agape from philios...but they are all one and the same in the relationship between man and woman.

Me? You seem to be the one claiming what the separations and distinctions are.

And connections...don't forget that.

Sex is the closest thing to divinity we can observe. Why? Because it is when two opposite join and "create".

I think there are lots of ways of co-creation and joining that have nothing to do with sex. Spiritual doesn't require physical, but doesn't exclude it either.

Absolutely true, in the physical sense. However masculinity and feminity, sexuality, is not limited to physicality alone. Man relates in one way, woman another, both are complimentary. A man may bring order. A woman nurturing. So in a seperate respect sex is a part of it, just not in the standard "erotic" connotation.

You argue for death.

You argue for distraction.

What are you talking about? More projections? Please stop. I don't want to wade through so much of your false crap. You really should get clear of that.

Any extreme is false.

You claim "value" and "love", but what you argue for is desolation. If all you can do is offer an orgasm, first you are shorting and limiting yourself and what you can offer...second you are just destroying sex by idolizing it. All value is not just found in proper timing, but keeping the self in its proper placement.

WHO are you talking about? This isn't me... so I can only wonder if you speak of some part of yourself? Ranting from frustration? If so, again, you really should get clear of that.

[A_Seagull]

I've never understood the mentality of calling women "whores" as if that's some terrible insult. What is wrong with a woman having a lot of sex... even if she does it for money? So what? It's business. If a man did it, would HE be a whore... and would that be bad? Or would HE be a good businessman?

A lot of men WANT whores, yet they speak of them in such disparaging terms.

Also, how is it that so many men want their woman to be sexually unlimited like a "personal whore", yet they will still insult such behavior in women in general?

Furthermore, men often hurl the label at women they don't even know, as if it's simply the worst insult they can think of.

It just doesn't make sense to me. It seems archaic and primitive and ignorant. Can anyone here offer more perspective and personal opinion about this?

People used to look down on nurses and actresses..... things have changed.

The only reason that 'whore' is considered to be an insult is because a lot of women don't like to be referred to as a 'whore'. Perhaps that is because they want to distance themselves from the possibility that they married for money... nothing wrong with that.. men do it too.

[Lacewing]

...whore, blah, blah, whore, blah

So you have your own idea of what and who a whore is... and you'll stick with that regardless of another person's greater awareness of themselves. So there's no point in arguing with your rigidly skewed mentality. You seem to think that your limited view of reality and everyone else is the only truth there is. Maybe that's why you're so angry and have pain and suffering (as you say). Apparently you don't let anyone else (or any other potential) "in".

...but if you need to use the other person's body to do it...what type of love is that?

Well, it seems that there's a range of what people are capable of -- probably lots of degrees and shades and levels of love. Like anything with humans... some have more clarity and authenticity and ability... while others are more muddled and shallow and needy. I'm sure that range can exist in ANY interaction.

And what does that mean?

I'm saying that people can have all kinds of reasons and intentions for what they do in any capacity. You seem to narrowly judge from a surface perspective. That's not very intelligent.

Those "connections"...are they really connections when you are dividing the human constitution? To please the body, but to forget the "immortal soul"? You are fooling yourself.

Yes, my connections with people and animals are very real... and they are experienced in the present moment when they occur... they are not dependent on the past or future... and they are not for the purpose of using anyone in any way. They are truly motivated by love.

And makes these connections so real?

They are genuine and felt by both parties. There are more frequencies to share than just a superficial surface one, ya know? The more you practice that, the more range and connection you experience. It's not unusual for people who are very smart in some ways, to be absolutely clueless of other potential. Maybe you'd find value in expanding your understanding of the potential of love and connection. Find yourself a good, sweet hippy woman and let her show you. Leave your rage behind. It masters you more than serves you.

Walking out on a person, because they are going through a difficult time is still an absence of love on the part of the lover/spouse.

So are you unaware that someone can deeply love another, but choose not to follow them down a certain path if it's dark and repetitive? People need to protect themselves from the unconscious and destructive hellholes of others. It doesn't do anyone any good for twisted mentalities to be treated like they're legitimate. The goal is not to withdraw love, but to move toward sanity one way or another!

Personally, I think someone's addiction to their crazy crap is a withdrawal of love. It's like saying, my addiction to my mood, rage, opinions, ego, agenda, or whatever, is more important and intoxicating to me than exchanging TRUE CONNECTION AND LOVE with another. You make choices all the time about where and how to invest yourself. That is a huge component in creating the reality you experience. It's irresponsible to blame everyone else for the reality you experience. Such blame leaves you powerless... which probably leads to rage. Try loving instead. Pick a person, puppy, sunset and LOVE it with all of your being. No contact needed. Do it over and over to discover how that transforms you and everything you experience. Then you won't blame others for "taking it away" from you.

[Eodnhoj7]

...whore, blah, blah, whore, blah

So you have your own idea of what and who a whore is... and you'll stick with that regardless of another person's greater awareness of themselves. So there's no point in arguing with your rigidly skewed mentality. You seem to think that your limited view of reality and everyone else is the only truth there is. Maybe that's why you're so angry and have pain and suffering (as you say). Apparently you don't let anyone else (or any other potential) "in".

No, all the major religions observe this facet of sexuality as various grades of adultery.

...but if you need to use the other person's body to do it...what type of love is that?

Well, it seems that there's a range of what people are capable of -- probably lots of degrees and shades and levels of love. Like anything with humans... some have more clarity and authenticity and ability... while others are more muddled and shallow and needy. I'm sure that range can exist in ANY interaction.

And what does that mean?

I'm saying that people can have all kinds of reasons and intentions for what they do in any capacity. You seem to narrowly judge from a surface perspective. That's not very intelligent.

"All kinds of reasons and intentions" is a surface perspective...elaborate.

Those "connections"...are they really connections when you are dividing the human constitution? To please the body, but to forget the "immortal soul"? You are fooling yourself.

Yes, my connections with people and animals are very real... and they are experienced in the present moment when they occur... they are not dependent on the past or future... and they are not for the purpose of using anyone in any way. They are truly motivated by love.

And makes these connections so real?

They are genuine and felt by both parties. There are more frequencies to share than just a superficial surface one, ya know? The more you practice that, the more range and connection you experience. It's not unusual for people who are very smart in some ways, to be absolutely clueless of other potential. Maybe you'd find value in expanding your understanding of the potential of love and connection. Find yourself a good, sweet hippy woman and let her show you. Leave your rage behind. It masters you more than serves you.

She was a "hippy" type woman.

Lust also masters a person. And yes, rage is pointless. The hippy movement failed because it degenerated the human condition to stricty material pleasure (material pleasure is not evil, until it is idolized). What it failed to take into account is that this "natural law" they claim is true observes mating norms and pair bonding in a variety of species.

Walking out on a person, because they are going through a difficult time is still an absence of love on the part of the lover/spouse.

So are you unaware that someone can deeply love another, but choose not to follow them down a certain path if it's dark and repetitive? People need to protect themselves from the unconscious and destructive hellholes of others. It doesn't do anyone any good for twisted mentalities to be treated like they're legitimate. The goal is not to withdraw love, but to move toward sanity one way or another!

The girl I was "with"...using "with" looslely...is walking down a dark path. There is nothing I can do except one thing, pray. We all reap what we sow. The most I can do, as a "man" considering chivarly is dying, is pray that whatever "karma" or "judgement" she is incuring is transferred to me not her...that as a "man" who "joined" himself to her, her "sin" now is on my shoulders. There is nothing I can do. The days of riding in on a horse and fighting off the dragons are dying. Does she deserve this? Noone does. But if the only thing I can do is pray that the Creator will save us both...someway or somehow I do not know...then that is what I will do.

We are bound to our own crosses...sometimes the only thing we can do is help lift those of other's for a moment...and when we cannot do that we can even only if it is a prayer or shallow "intent".

Personally, I think someone's addiction to their crazy crap is a withdrawal of love. It's like saying, my addiction to my mood, rage, opinions, ego, agenda, or whatever, is more important and intoxicating to me than exchanging TRUE CONNECTION AND LOVE with another. You make choices all the time about where and how to invest yourself. That is a huge component in creating the reality you experience. It's irresponsible to blame everyone else for the reality you experience. Such blame leaves you powerless... which probably leads to rage. Try loving instead. Pick a person, puppy, sunset and LOVE it with all of your being. No contact needed. Do it over and over to discover how that transforms you and everything you experience. Then you won't blame others for "taking it away" from you.

You claim "true connection and love" and yet separate my view from yours. I already know my "sins", many of which are no different than yours (some are even much worse, or could be worse given a change in context...given you circumstances I probably have committed acts much worse than you).

But I am not going to justify them...they are what they are and I do not claim innocence.

Rage seperates and destroys. I am guilty of this, and I choose to change.
Lust also does the same. Love the person you joined yourself too, as the body, mind and spirit are interconnected and "the two fleshes become one". Noone is perfect, one does what they can...even if it is strictly just relying on the mercy of God.

If you are looking for someone to justify your "free spirit" where sex can be used "only" for fun without consequences...you will not find it as you are seperating one aspect of the human condition from another.

[Lacewing]

No, all the major religions observe this facet of sexuality as various grades of adultery.

You're talking about a false conclusion in your mind, and using some kind of religious fervor to rationalize it.

Pointless to discuss.

I'm saying that people can have all kinds of reasons and intentions for what they do in any capacity.

"All kinds of reasons and intentions" is a surface perspective...elaborate.

You might have a hard time understanding this because you seem to easily jump to conclusions and harsh realities. My love for people -- whether as a committed partner, or as a friend, or even for strangers -- comes from an authentic heartfelt intention that wishes the best for them, without any type of gain for me. When I've broken up with a partner, my love didn't stop... and I was focused on fairness and generosity for them. When I've chosen to put distance between me and friends, I've never wanted ill to fall on them. I also feel glad about the beauty and joy of people I don't know. My reasons and intentions are nothing like you seem to attribute to me, just as your conclusion about my behavior is made up in your own head. I have never cheated on a partner. I have a strong sense of honor. I do not need religion to tell me what is right -- I have a direct line to that information. And the path of my life continually affirms this.

Lust also masters a person.

Well I've not been talking about lust... so, again, this is what's in your head.

The hippy movement failed because it degenerated the human condition to stricty material pleasure (material pleasure is not evil, until it is idolized).

Your rigid, all-consuming definitions are very restricting and blinding. When I say "find a sweet, hippy woman to show you", I'm talking about releasing your bound-up ideas that keep you unhappy. It has nothing to do with sex. It's simply a more relaxed way of accepting and embracing the beauty and joy of life.

The girl I was "with"...using "with" looslely...is walking down a dark path.

So, that has nothing to do with being a "hippy". That was simply her own trip. I didn't suggest that you choose someone walking down a dark path, did I? That's the last thing you need. However, considering how religious you appear to be, you may be seeing EVERYTHING as a dark path.

I think religion is messing you up. Why don't you focus on the love goals of it, rather than the dark evil paths?

But if the only thing I can do is pray that the Creator will save us both...someway or somehow I do not know...then that is what I will do.

Why don't you consider that she's a divine "child of god" (or whatever), and she's having her own magnificent life experience, and "god" has it under control. She is loved and protected on the soul-level (or whatever), and there's no need to mourn her life or path. Let her be. Trust that she's a divine being. Ultimately, she does not need to be saved. What you have the most control over is focusing on your own path and awareness. Notice how much stuff you continually create and twist to fit your own ideas and needs. Notice how much bigger universal potential is than your small, contrived view. What kind of broader and more joyful reality might you be able to experience if you expand beyond your patterns and brain-washing, and use your creativity and intelligence for a greater experience and interaction?

If all you see is DARK STUFF... then that's YOUR stuff. I'm telling you, there is MUCH more than that... and if you don't believe me, ask yourself "Why WOULDN'T THERE BE?" Why would your puny view be an honest representation of the extent of what's possible? That makes NO SENSE!!! So why wouldn't you want to see MORE? What is the investment that keeps you bound up?

We are bound to our own crosses...

Yes, you are. Now realize that you are also "Jesus" in some aspect, and unbind it! Walk away and be free of it. If you find it reappearing... shove it off. Choose/create joy over drudgery... unless you really don't want to... then by all means drag that cross around all you want to. Based on the claims you've made, I'm trying to show that there ARE countless other realities than the one you are describing. I try to remind myself of this when I forget! Our little realities/dramas are so convincing! I'm trying to throw you a rope in case you actually want it. You will probably think it's a snake.

the mercy of God.

How about your own mercy for yourself. Is there really anyone else involved or in charge?

[Walker]

Joe gives the ostensible reason that maybe he believes, after all these years.

The real reason is, Power Move.

It says, I can do this to you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mx4rLLi93Ko

http://www.loudracket.com/wp-content/up ... /biden.jpg

[Lacewing]

Joe gives the ostensible reason that maybe he believes, after all these years.

The real reason is, Power Move.

It says, I can do this to you.

It seems that men -- as a result of social upbringing and patterns -- think that the world, and everything that is fairly accessible to them, is for their use -- to play with or destroy. Yes? No?

They may be good men in most respects -- they just don't know any better -- and that makes them bad for others, in a way.

[Logik]

It is actually funny to me how the social narrative has done a U-turn on the topic of promiscuity in less than 2 months.

A series of studies are showing that young adults are having less and less sex and it's bothering people.

https://www.sciencealert.com/the-percen ... ecord-high
http://time.com/5297145/is-sex-dead/

Moral panic ensues.

In search of solutions the narrative is going to have to shift from "whore" and "slut" no longer being pejoratives, but high-status symbols.

Let the whoring olympics begin!

[Walker]

Joe gives the ostensible reason that maybe he believes, after all these years.

The real reason is, Power Move.

It says, I can do this to you.

It seems that men -- as a result of social upbringing and patterns -- think that the world, and everything that is fairly accessible to them, is for their use -- to play with or destroy. Yes? No?

They may be good men in most respects -- they just don't know any better -- and that makes them bad for others, in a way.

Joe isn’t just telling the woman, I can do this to you. He is telling the man, I can do this to your women. Your wife, your daughters, your old mother.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbsMZecRgbI

Power is impartial. It takes power to hang with power. A lion is powerful. If a human is powerful enough, the human can hang with a lion.

If the man being honored in the ceremony is powerful enough he can turn around to Joe and say off-mike, get your god-damned hands off of her.

Oh yes, Joe with the surprised, hurt expression. Too f**k*** bad, Joe.

If a woman is powerful enough she can hang with a powerful man. If a man is powerful enough, he can hang with a powerful woman. What defines power in Western culture?

Ol’ Joe uses social conventions as a weapon by putting his hands on women in ceremonial situations, such as photos and oath-taking. If ol’ Joe’s mauling destroys the occasion for a woman, then she wasn’t strong enough to hang with Joe.

A strong woman would interrupt the ceremony with an “accidental” elbow to Joe’s nose, during the time she was suddenly startled and jerked away in reaction to his uninvited touch. It doesn't take much, about 5 pounds of force to the tip of nose. In that case, the ceremony would not be destroyed for the woman, for she would take responsibility for her surprised reaction that broke Joe’s nose. The ceremony would be destroyed for Joe, not her. She would have a great story to tell for the rest of her life ... not a victim story.

Of course, she would be profuse with ostensible apologies. Oh my, sorry for the blood, here's a hundred bucks for the shirt. She didn’t make the rules. Joe did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5Df30fBLII

[Walker]

Let the whoring olympics begin!

You folks are paying each other for sex in relationships as part of the social norm?

[Logik]

You folks are paying each other for sex in relationships as part of the social norm?

Define "pay"?

If you accept any of the premises of Economics there is no such thing as free lunch.