The pain comes from the physical body. The human body feels things physically.
The "ouch" is a word already grasped and retained as thought. Whatever word use ("ouch" or any other word, swear word or not) comes from a 'thought'.
I doubt it.
Just because the "you" does NOT recognize and/or see the thought (the thinking) BEFORE the spoken word, that in no way infers that spoken words do NOT come from thought. In the times of when this is written human beings are really mostly "unconscious" (for lack of a better word) of thought, and of the actual power thought has. What people say has far more power over them then they actually realize YET.
The actual language used to describe any thing, for example like a "beautiful" "sunset", had to come from thought. Words like "beautiful" and/or "sunset" do NOT just pop out of the mouth, without first previously being a thought. The saying "How wonderful" has to be there as a thought before it can just come out in spoken, or written, words. Whatever is SAID does NOT appear without first coming from a thought. For example, when the words "How wonderful!" are said the actual thought behind those words, which HAD TO be there BEFORE those two words were spoken WERE "beautiful sunset". WHEN a sunset is seen that is liked and THOUGHT of a being a beautiful one, then the THOUGHT "beautiful sunset" unconsciously arises, in a completely unnoticed amount of time, BEFORE the words "How wonderful!" are muttered.
Even in YOUR example "you" have provided the actual EVIDENCE that A THOUGHT was THERE BEFORE 'the words are said. That "person" was THINKING "beautiful sunset" BEFORE saying "How wonderful!" OBVIOUSLY they would NOT have said "How wonderful!" IF they HAD NOT had a thought of "beautiful sunset" FIRST.
Unless OF COURSE "you" can show HOW otherwise.
What you are leading to goes to deeper level of understanding, and of recognizing the difference between 'behaviors' and 'actions'. But this is a bit off track and to deep for this discussion, for now.
But HOW could words be spoken if they have NOT yet been obtained and withheld as 'thought' first?
There are two things here:
1. Obviously to be able to speak the words/language one uses, those words/language HAD TO BE previously obtained. When this happens those words/language is stored within the body, and are known as thought. Therefore, words may APPEAR to be spoken spontaneously but OBVIOUSLY they came from thought. ALL words are held as a thought before they are spoken, unless of course they are a made up word, which, by the way, only human beings make up human made up words and language, OBVIOUSLY.
2. If spoken words to "you" APPEAR to be "spontaneously", then WHERE do you propose they come from IF they do NOT come from thought?
Maybe if you provide an example or two of WHEN words APPEAR to be "spoken spontaneously", then we can look at it/them, and then discuss.
The example you gave above, from my perspective, APPEARED to work against what you are proposing.
I am NOT sure why "you" the small, conditioned self, which THINKS that it is a separate self, is saying this.AlexW wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:41 pmYes, when speaking from the perspective of the small, conditioned self.Age wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:20 am To "you", do sounds come out of a human body? From and through the larynx or voice box are sounds muttered? Are those sounds some times known as a voice? Is a 'voice' another term of expressing what 'thoughts' are in that body? If yes to these questions, then I also say yes to; A human body is able to utter sounds.
No, when speaking from the perspective of consciousness - here/now everything is I - there is no separate one doing anything.
What are "you" TRYING TO get at?
If there is NO actual separate one doing anything, then WHY are ALL of these apparent separate writings, with completely opposing views, coming from apparent separate ones? Are "you" able to explain WHAT is actually occurring here/now, and HOW this phenomena actually happens?
I could NOT disagree any more.
WHY do "you" propose that the collective and united I, also sometimes referred to as, Consciousness is NOT able to speak through human beings' voice boxes?
Also, do you want answers written under the label "age" to also be clarified how "you" have done it here, all of the time?
Also, WHO/WHAT came to the realization to write what was written in "YOUR" quote here? And, did it only come to the forefront AFTER the 'thought' which produced the quote above it WHERE the writings under the label "alexw" gave two different answers from two different perspectives.
If "you" want to KNOW which perspective is actually addressing "you" from, then do "you" also have to decide which perspective "you" are actually addressing the "me" from ALSO?
And, who/what is the "me" anyway? Which perspective is the "me" which "you" are going to decide which perspective "you" will address from?
'I' can SEE a true recipe for misunderstanding occurring HERE/NOW.
Surely there is ONE VERY SIMPLE and EASY way ALL of this could be EXPLAINED and UNDERSTOOD?
Okay, fair point.AlexW wrote: ↑Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:41 pmUltimately everything is consciousness, all labels/thoughts included, no matter if they appear deluded or not.
Can "you", whichever that one who is going to address this question is, EXPLAIN HOW and WHY just One thing WOULD cause things to HAPPEN and APPEAR the way they are HERE/NOW?
Also, did "you" NOTICE any contradiction in "your" own statement just now?
If everything IS Consciousness, (including ALL labels/thoughts), then there is NO delusion any where. Thoughts/labels do NOT "appear" deluded. In some circumstances "they" just ARE. But the reason "they" and "you" ARE deluded is because "you" actually THINK and BELIEVE that "you" are separate human beings. When "you" human beings STOP being "egos" and transform beyond what those PERCEIVED things ARE, and become thee True Self, then the REASON for HOW and WHY Everything/the Universe IS the way It IS will be KNOWN, to "you" also.
If "you" want to stick with the 'ultimately', then great. Lets do it.
WHY did I, and HOW do I, which ultimately does do EVERY thing, create the PERCEPTION of "human beings" and the PERCEPTION of them being able to do things?
When "you" can and do answer that accurately, then I KNOW "we" are on the same path.
IF absolutely EVERY thing, as "you" propose is done by Consciousness, It-Self, and "you" can speak for Consciousness, and "you", as Consciousness, say that sounds do NOT come out of human bodies, nor from the voice boxes of human bodies sounds are muttered, nor that those sounds, heard by human beings, are known as a "voice", by human beings, then what do "you/Consciousness" propose is doing ALL these things HERE/NOW, which are observed by, and witnessed by, "you" human beings?
When that question is answered, then how I do things HERE/NOW will be SEEN to be different, by "you" human beings.
Also, which perspective do "you" want to actually be addressed from? And, how often?
'I' can be WHOEVER, "you" want "me" TO BE.