Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

roydop
Posts: 325
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:37 pm

Re: Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?

Post by roydop » Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:50 am

Thinking is the deception/distraction.

Satan and Maya are both deceivers in each system of thought/religion. But it's same "power"/phenomenon as losing awareness of this realm while watching a movie.

It's all dependent upon you and where you focus your attention. It's all you, just not the you you think you are.

User avatar
Lacewing
Posts: 4003
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:25 am

Re: Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?

Post by Lacewing » Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:32 am

attofishpi wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:01 am
my reasoning from the experiences allow me to ONLY comprehend that there is a 3rd party intelligence that constructs, in real time, our reality.
One does not need to call it 'God'..i do.
Does this "view" change how you live your life? Do you think you would live your life differently than you do now, if you didn't think there was a 3rd party intelligence constructing everything? Or does it not really matter what the ultimate dynamic is, 'cause you're going to live how you feel inclined to live regardless (based on many factors, such as experience, personality, integrity, desires, ego, etc.)?

User avatar
Greta
Posts: 4389
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2015 8:10 am

Re: Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?

Post by Greta » Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:28 am

-1- wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:56 pm
Greta wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:59 pm

Ideally, the religious would question whether the gaining of knowledge is a sin. They might consider that in Adam and Eve the ancients were simply creating an allegory for the powers of humanity beyond that of other animals, and the price we pay for that awareness in suffering.

Question: were Adam and Eve Homo sapiens or an earlier hominid line like the Australopithecus - the latter logically would have already had basic human awareness and suffering because they adorned the graves of their dead.
We just don't know the religious. Whatever god says, can't be questioned. For the bulk of Christianity, you'd be burnt at the stakes for voicing this.
They are little buggers like that, aren't they?
-1- wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:56 pm
I am not sure if Adam and Eve adorned the graves of their dead. 1. The Bible does not say so. 2. There is no archaeological evidence of it. 3. They had no dead; these two were the first two dead. Therefore, since the criteria can't be proven to apply to them, they were very likely inhuman.
The moment I saw the line you were taking I had a feeling you'd ping me with #3 - touché! :lol:

User avatar
Greatest I am
Posts: 2446
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 5:09 pm

Re: Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?

Post by Greatest I am » Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:10 pm

Greta wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:59 pm
Greatest I am wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:57 pm
Greta wrote:
Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:41 am
I'm thinking that we have two possibilities to ease away from Iron Age language:

1. God might be order and Satan, chaos.

However, since total order is stasis and, as far as we're concerned, stasis is not all that great, then.

2. God is a productive balance of order and chaos while Satan is imbalance - the extremes, being too wild or too controlled.
I can appreciate your thinking here.

To the religious, you are pointing out why they sing of Adam's sin being a happy fault and necessary to gods plan as sin produces law and the balance/security we all instinctively crave.
Ideally, the religious would question whether the gaining of knowledge is a sin. They might consider that in Adam and Eve the ancients were simply creating an allegory for the powers of humanity beyond that of other animals, and the price we pay for that awareness in suffering.

Question: were Adam and Eve Homo sapiens or an earlier hominid line like the Australopithecus - the latter logically would have already had basic human awareness and suffering because they adorned the graves of their dead.
Their designation maters not. We are here and now.

How do you designate you, Eve?

Regards
DL

User avatar
Greatest I am
Posts: 2446
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 5:09 pm

Re: Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?

Post by Greatest I am » Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:15 pm

Greta wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:59 pm

Ideally, the religious would question whether the gaining of knowledge is a sin.
What is Original Sin if not ignoring a stupid command to not gain the knowledge of all things?

Regards
DL

User avatar
Greatest I am
Posts: 2446
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 5:09 pm

Re: Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?

Post by Greatest I am » Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:17 pm

-1- wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:48 pm
Greatest I am wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:55 pm
Can Christians clear up this contradiction?
Easily. With their hand tied behind their back. "Every Christian lion-hearted man will show you."

The problem is that their explanation does not cut the mustard outside of Christian circles.
I agree. And even in their circles they will war.

Regards
DL

User avatar
Greatest I am
Posts: 2446
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 5:09 pm

Re: Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?

Post by Greatest I am » Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:19 pm

roydop wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:50 am
Thinking is the deception/distraction.

Satan and Maya are both deceivers in each system of thought/religion. But it's same "power"/phenomenon as losing awareness of this realm while watching a movie.

It's all dependent upon you and where you focus your attention. It's all you, just not the you you think you are.
If you are not you, who are you, and when did you relinquish control of you?

Regards
DL

User avatar
-1-
Posts: 2879
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:08 am

Re: Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?

Post by -1- » Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:32 am

Greatest I am wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:19 pm
roydop wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:50 am
It's all you, just not the you you think you are.
If you are not you, who are you, and when did you relinquish control of you?

Regards
DL
j

DL, I don't think RoyDrop is claiming that you are not you. He is just saying that there are parts of you which you don't know are you. There is a huge difference in the statements' meanings. I beseech you to be more precise in your reading comprehension.

User avatar
Greta
Posts: 4389
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2015 8:10 am

Re: Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?

Post by Greta » Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:38 am

Greatest I am wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:15 pm
Greta wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 9:59 pm

Ideally, the religious would question whether the gaining of knowledge is a sin.
What is Original Sin if not ignoring a stupid command to not gain the knowledge of all things?

Regards
DL
According to some simple people a few thousand years ago. As I say, I think Original Sin is an analogy for human capacities that, not only bring us empowerment, but also suffering.

The way I see it, the ancients couldn't help but notice that they operated differently to other species. Various societies down the ages have had their own ideas as to the differences and similarities.

gaffo
Posts: 3181
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?

Post by gaffo » Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:44 am

Greatest I am wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:55 pm
Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNcRXeCzpno

I don’t know what God or Satan’s game is, but God giving Satan dominion over our political/physical realm as well as the power to deceive our spiritual/religious realm in us all seems counterintuitive to what a good God would do.

It seems like God is giving Satan the advantage, in terms of our ability to think without deception or Satan’s undo interference.

Rev12;9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent,

called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Why did God curse us with Satan and her minions?

It cannot be to give us free will as none of us have the free will to never sin. If we did have that, we would have some examples of
people who never sinned.

On another tangent, scriptures say that God himself put’s lies/deception into his prophets and that he decides who will have faith or not by his doling out grace only to those he has pre-selected and thus denies other the ability to have faith or belief.

This biblical contradiction, strangely, refutes all that I put above on Satan. Can Christians clear up this contradiction?

Regards
DL
assuming your God is good, then his evil creation, and evil itself must offer a higher good, not understandable by men.

or your God is just evil.

or a little of both.

I don't belevie in your God so not able to know his nature for your.

gaffo
Posts: 3181
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?

Post by gaffo » Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:52 am

Greatest I am wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:43 pm
bahman wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:40 pm
Greatest I am wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:05 pm


To Christian sheeple, not thinking humans.

Where is Satan ever shown as lying or being deceitful?

I have 4 or 5 quotes on God lying but not a one on Satan lying.

Regards
DL
Could you please share the quotes?
Now, therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee. 1Kings 22:23

Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets. 2 Chron 18:22

Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people. Jer 4:10

And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet. Ezekiel 14:9

For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie. Thessalonians 2:11

O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived. - Jeremiah 20:7

To me, God’s worse lie was to Adam and Eve. He told them they could eat of the tree of life and then reneged and in a real sense murdered them by denying them a remedy.

That pesky God sure works in mysterious ways.

Regards
DL
Thanks for the quotes, all from the older (pre-bab exile) OT works (before Belial existed in Judaism).

as for the last Genesis reference, did YHWH tell Adam/Eve they could eat from the ToL?

YHWH did forbid them from eating of the OTHER tree, the ToK, then lied when HE said if they eat from it they would die.

gaffo
Posts: 3181
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?

Post by gaffo » Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:55 am

Greatest I am wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:13 pm
HexHammer wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 3:51 pm
Satan by far. The whole world has descended into chaos, pollution, global warming, corruption, murder, war, famine, etc!
Hmm. Yet most markers for evil, if you look at the stats world wide, wit the U.S. being the exception to some of the trends, are at the best levels per capita than we have ever enjoyed, including crime, murder, death in wars, slavery and economics which speak to famine and the overall health and longevity of the poorest.

Satan, if you are correct, seems to be working quite actively to make us look a lot better.

True that global climate change and pollution are likely to slow our progress but I do not think those will reverse the trends.

Regards
DL
climate change will offer lands now too cold and dry for crops to be warm and wet, while lands now wet and warm will become too dry for crops.

so with the good come the bad and vise versa.

canada will be looking pretty and warm in 2200.

gaffo
Posts: 3181
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?

Post by gaffo » Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:57 am

bahman wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 12:24 am
Do Catholics aware of these Quotes? Jesus claimed that He is the way to Truth.
Orthodox, Roman Catholics and prots all know of the OT, so yes they know of those quotes.

they just ignore them, it does not fit their theology.

gaffo
Posts: 3181
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?

Post by gaffo » Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:00 am

HexHammer wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:57 pm
there are peace talks throughout the entire middle east
there is? i missed the memo.

HexHammer wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:57 pm
but Iran, so it will be cut short
really why so? of all the ME folks the Iranian people are the most educated and least lovers of their ruling gov, if there will be peace to be made in the ME, Iran will be the one making it Sir.

gaffo
Posts: 3181
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: Who has more control of our thinking; God or Satan?

Post by gaffo » Sat Mar 23, 2019 6:04 am

Lacewing wrote:
Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:36 pm
What if God and Satan are one and the same?
Ahriman is not YHWH, the latter is at least 1500 yrs older.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider] and 18 guests