The Wrong God

So what's really going on?

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Logik
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Re: The Wrong God

Post by Logik » Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:13 pm

Immanuel Can wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:12 pm
surreptitious57 wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:07 pm
Only that TOE would not be confined to just origin but could also explain the behaviour of phenomena since then
A "TOE" isn't a synonym for an "origins" theory.
Yeah it is. Functionally identical.

Immanuel Can wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:12 pm
It's a comprehensive physics formula intended to account for all phenomena. Any genuine TOE, if such a thing could exist, would come in a form like "E=MC2.

Now, presumably, if a TOE ever existed, it would have to give us some mathematical-physical purchase on origins; but not just that. It would have to do much, much more.

I'm not advocating any TOE. Let's make that clear. I know of none, nor do I reasonably expect us to find any soon. This ain't that.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Exactly: God = Universe.

Or if the word "God" upsets you, I'll rewrite it as: G = U
Last edited by Logik on Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Immanuel Can
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Re: The Wrong God

Post by Immanuel Can » Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:14 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:07 pm
Only that TOE would not be confined to just origin but could also explain the behaviour of phenomena since then
Yes. And everything yet to come, as well. That's a lot to do.

surreptitious57
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Re: The Wrong God

Post by surreptitious57 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:15 pm

Logic wrote:
You are going to have to explain what you mean by explain

Because God did it explains perfectly how the universe got here

What is there to explain thereafter ? Because of the way God configured our universe X happens
Not much detail there and who or what is this God you refer to ? Is there a hypothesis to test for it ?

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Immanuel Can
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Re: The Wrong God

Post by Immanuel Can » Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:15 pm

Logik wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:13 pm
Yeah it is. Functionally identical.
Since you won't even read the definition, I can't help you see that. We'll have to leave it.

Logik
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Re: The Wrong God

Post by Logik » Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:16 pm

Immanuel Can wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:14 pm
Yes. And everything yet to come, as well. That's a lot to do.
It does precisely that!

It states EXACTLY that everything yet to come will.
What will come? EVERYTHING!

See, this is what happens when you don't understand how information works.
Without uncertainty information is impossible.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Hence the difference between explanations and predictions.
Last edited by Logik on Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:18 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Logik
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Re: The Wrong God

Post by Logik » Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:16 pm

Immanuel Can wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:15 pm
Logik wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:13 pm
Yeah it is. Functionally identical.
Since you won't even read the definition, I can't help you see that. We'll have to leave it.
Fuck your definition, moron. Learn some mathematics.

You have put logic/science on some pedestal and you have wired your brain into magical thinking mode.

What you expect from a TOE is utterly unrealistic because you have zero awareness of complexity theory.

Even IF we had a TOE that COULD tell us what happens in the future, we would still have to COMPUTE its consequences. On which computer do you prose we do that? Are you hiding Deep Thought in your back yard or something?

We can barely do the computation of molecular quantum mechanics (e.g calculate consequences of basic chemical reactions), we can barely muster the computational power to do the calculations necessary for protein folding.

You think we can compute the consequences of The Universe from a TOE?

I guess, why not? All we need is a computer the size of Sagittarius A, and some magic trick to extract information from black holes.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Last edited by Logik on Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:31 pm, edited 3 times in total.

surreptitious57
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Re: The Wrong God

Post by surreptitious57 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:26 pm

Logic wrote:
You have put logic / science on some pedestal and you have wired your brain into magical thinking mode
Nothing should ever be put onto a pedestal no matter how useful it actually is
Math and science are very useful indeed but worshipping them is entirely unnecesary
That leads to dogmatic thinking but a mind functions best when it is open not closed

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Immanuel Can
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Re: The Wrong God

Post by Immanuel Can » Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:31 pm

Logik wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:16 pm
You think we can compute the consequences of The Universe from a TOE?
You're not paying attention.

We can't compute anything from a TOE. It doesn't exist. The fact that we have no computer to do the job is irrelevant. We also have no computer to create leprechauns. Nobody's crying about that.

But I see we're still stuck on your lack of a definition of TOE, and I can't fix that for you.

surreptitious57
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Re: The Wrong God

Post by surreptitious57 » Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:31 pm

Logic wrote:
You think we can compute the consequences of The Universe from a TOE
Absolutely not as you would need a computer the size of the Universe to do this
More practical to simply observe the localised part of the Universe that we can

Logik
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Re: The Wrong God

Post by Logik » Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:34 pm

Immanuel Can wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:31 pm
Logik wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:16 pm
You think we can compute the consequences of The Universe from a TOE?
You're not paying attention.

We can't compute anything from a TOE. It doesn't exist. The fact that we have no computer to do the job is irrelevant. We also have no computer to create leprechauns. Nobody's crying about that.

But I see we're still stuck on your lack of a definition of TOE, and I can't fix that for you.
I have done the maths - I don't need to pay any more attention.

Even if a TOE did exist. If it were to be published tomorrow - you still can't compute its consequences!

Neither in theory nor in practice! The word "impossible" comes to mind. That is HOW prediction works.
I am predicting that a TOE (real or potential) doesn't DO what you EXPECT it to do.

Said differently: you have unrealistic expectations a.k.a magical/wishful thinking.

Here's your homework:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computati ... actability
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combinatorial_explosion
Last edited by Logik on Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Logik
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Re: The Wrong God

Post by Logik » Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:45 pm

surreptitious57 wrote: Not much detail there and who or what is this God you refer to ? Is there a hypothesis to test for it ?
3rd time now. First Cause. a.k.a The Origin (of the universe).

You can call it The Big Bang
Or the thing that caused the Big Bang.
Or the thing that caused the thing that caused The Big Bang.
Or the thing that caused the thing that caused the thing that caused The Big Bang.
Or the thing that caused the thing that caused the thing that caused the thing that caused The Big Bang.
Or the thing that caused the thing that caused the thing that caused the thing that caused the thing that The Big Bang.
Or the thing that caused the thing that caused the thing that caused the thing that caused the thing that the thing that caused The Big Bang.

If you don't get the point I can carry on?

If you get the point I am just going to call it "The Uncaused First Cause" (UFC) from now on.

The question of "origin" is all about the answer to this question: "What is the UFC?"

You decide whether you want to call it God or Theory of Everything. There's no material difference what the label is.

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Immanuel Can
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Re: The Wrong God

Post by Immanuel Can » Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:33 pm

Logik wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:45 pm
Or the thing that caused the thing that caused the thing that caused the thing that caused the thing that the thing that caused The Big Bang.
Keep writing "the caused that caused", until you reach infinity.

Because unless you can, your theory that a causal chain can be infinite is disproved by your own inability. Thus, there would have to have been a First Cause.

QED.

Logik
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Re: The Wrong God

Post by Logik » Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:37 pm

Immanuel Can wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:33 pm
Logik wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:45 pm
Or the thing that caused the thing that caused the thing that caused the thing that caused the thing that the thing that caused The Big Bang.
Keep writing "the caused that caused", until you reach infinity.

Because unless you can, your theory that a causal chain can be infinite is disproved by your own inability. Thus, there would have to have been a First Cause.

QED.
You are far too stupid to call yourself a philosopher.

You make inferences about the universe based on the finiteness of my own life?

How do you even commit so many logical fallacies in a single paragraph?!?!?!?!

Here. Click the "Run" button and wait till it finishes: https://repl.it/repls/PurpleImpoliteFactors

Fuck. Maybe it needs a safety label in case you really are this stupid.

It's an infinite loop. There is a good chance that it will run running till well past your death! So don't ACTUALLY wait for it to finish, OK?

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Immanuel Can
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Re: The Wrong God

Post by Immanuel Can » Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:52 pm

Logik wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:37 pm
You make inferences about the universe based on the finiteness of my own life?
No. I prove you can't have an actual infinite.

And you know I'm right; because if you imagined I were not, then you'd have given it a try. But you didn't even take a first whack at it.

Logik
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Re: The Wrong God

Post by Logik » Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:53 pm

Immanuel Can wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:52 pm
Logik wrote:
Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:37 pm
You make inferences about the universe based on the finiteness of my own life?
No. I prove you can't have an actual infinite.

And you know I'm right; because if you imagined I were not, then you'd have given it a try. But you didn't even take a first whack at it.
Have you no shame in telling such lies!?!

My first whack at it is right here: https://repl.it/repls/PurpleImpoliteFactors

Click "Run" and keep an eye on it. Tell me when it finishes, OK, Mr Right?

If my Maths is right ( double-check it here: https://repl.it/repls/AliceblueDependentUnit ) the infinite loop you are staring at will run AT LEAST 10^9302 times longer than the Heat Death of the universe.

Maybe you want to grab some popcorn.

Or perhaps call in Slartibartfast? He may have expanded his business beyond planets...
Last edited by Logik on Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:24 am, edited 2 times in total.

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