Why humans can't get rid of their egos ?

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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AlexW
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Re: Why humans can't get rid of their egos ?

Post by AlexW »

Age wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:02 am This "no" entity, labelled "age", is NOT worth listening to. In fact "it" is nothing that has ever been worthy of ever being heard. This "no" entity really does NOT deserve to be listened to at all.
Well, it couldn’t say anything anyway... a bundle of thoughts can’t talk, can it?
But: everything deserves to be heard, that it IS heard is the only proof required that it is deserved to be heard (or read).
Reality makes no difference between words of truth and lies, it is one and the same for IT.
Age
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Re: Why humans can't get rid of their egos ?

Post by Age »

Logik wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:39 am
Age wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:37 am If there is SOME thing, then that is existence.
If there is NO thing, then that is non-existence.
This is confusing me.
Fair enough.
Logik wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:39 amIs NO thing not a thing?
To me, I think so.

'NO thing' could imply 'not a thing, which then could infer 'nothing', correct?
Logik wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:39 amIf there is non-existence then doesn't that mean that non-existence exists?
That is certainly NOT what that means to me. It may well mean that to "you", but NOT to me.

"you" are FREE to word it like that. As a pre-existing' thing, you are FREE to word any thing, anyway that you WANT TO. HOWEVER, If there is non-existence "you", literally, could NOT word it like that.

Just like you have SHOWN human beings can word things, in ways that can be completely non-sensical and/or foolish, and then see and/or believe same non-sensical and/or foolish things. Some times things are NOT actually how they appear. Just like in all so called "paradoxes", it is just the placements of words, which is what deceives human beings to SEE concepts that really are NOT there, and/or do NOT actually exist. One such example is presented above in your question; If there is non-existence, then does that mean that non-existence exists?

People have to decided on, agree upon, and accept the definitions to be used, if they do Truly want to SEE and UNDERSTAND the actual and real Truth of things.
Age
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Re: Why humans can't get rid of their egos ?

Post by Age »

Logik wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:47 am
Age wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:42 am If an 'I' exists, then that is the ONLY experiment NEEDED to VERIFY an existing Universe, OBVIOUSLY.
Nonsense! The universe can exist with or without an I.
We WERE talking about in relation to a non-existing Universe correct?

If you would like to change the discussion, then that is fine. But how about we finish this one off first?

let me show you. I am giving up my identity and the universe remains standing!!![/quote]

COMPLETELY and UTTERLY off topic, thus moot, at the moment.

As I implied we can change direction and talk about this at some point soon, but let us LOOK AT my response while LOOKING AT what it was in relation to, which was; You cannot offer an experiment such that we can DETERMINE whether we are in the existning or non-existing universe.

To wit I wrote some premises and concluded with: If an 'I' exists, then that is the ONLY experiment NEEDED to VERIFY an existing Universe, OBVIOUSLY.

Now, this CLEARLY SHOWS what my concluded comment was ACTUALLY in regards to EXACTLY. That is why it is better to leave ALL of the previous post, and as many quotes as can, in the current post. That way one could NOT be accused of TRYING TO mislead any one, in any way.
Logik wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:47 amThe one known as Logik has given up selfhood and no longer recognizes the "I".
Logik is still observing that the universe is standing.

So it seems pretty clear that the universe is not dependent on the I.

The I is coincidental, not incidental.

I don't know how many times I have to repeat this: It's just language.

THE UNIVERSE DOES NOT EXIST. A giant wad of candyfloss exists!

You can SAY whatever the hell you want and nothing happens.
And you could, and just DID, 'SAY whatever the hell you wanted to' about ALL of this completely OFF TOPIC, thus completely moot points, but to NO avail.

If you HAVE, or HAVE NOT, recognized and SEEN from my writings that it is actually POSSIBLE to offer up an experiment that can DETERMINE if we are in an existing Universe or not, is some thing that you will have to eventually acknowledge even if it is only to your own self. You can just keep TRYING as many deflective strategies as you can to side step what I am saying and POINTING OUT, but I think the readers are becoming very CLEAR as to what you are actually doing.

Once we finish with that, then we can move onto this ridiculous subject that you, yourself, have already moved onto.
Age
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Re: Why humans can't get rid of their egos ?

Post by Age »

Logik wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:03 am
Age wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:02 am WHEN, and IF, people STOP saying I have beliefs and accusing me of this, OR provide some actual EVIDENCE that I do have a belief, then I will STOP repeating myself.
If controlling what other people say about you is the hill you want to die on - so be it.

You have beliefs. And there is nothing you can do to make me stop saying it.
Oh I do NOT care if you KEEP saying it. I was just pointing out that WHEN, and IF, "you" people STOP accusing me of this, et cetera, then that is when I will STOP repeating myself. If you are completely unaware "alexw" asked the question; Isn’t this whole discussion about having beliefs or not getting a bit tiresome?, which is EXACTLY who and what my response was to.

There was NOTHING whatsoever to do with nor about controlling of any one in my response. You, unfortunately, though made up another completely WRONG ASSUMPTION and then AGAIN BELIEVED that that ASSUMPTION was TRUE.

You also can NOT let go of that BELIEF, which you are holding onto for dear life, in regards to my having beliefs.

Please do NOT stop saying it, as each time you say it is just further EVIDENCE of what it is that I will say in regards to how the brain works and especially in relation the the BELIEF-system.

By the way, are you able to clear up for us here WHEN exactly I started HAVING these "BELIEFS", which "you" BELIEVE that I have now?
Age
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Re: Why humans can't get rid of their egos ?

Post by Age »

Logik wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:08 am
Age wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:07 am
Logik wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:02 am

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Q.E.D
You may feel happy and satisfied in that "you" have deflected away from the point at hand, which is you STILL CAN, or WILL, NOT provide any actual EVIDENCE, but the only one "you" are FOOLING is your "self". I think it will be found that the readers are SEEING straight past your continual attempts at deflecting away from the FACT, which is; That the very reason you will NOT provide any thing is because you CAN NOT.
I think that the readers are indeed SEEING straight past your bullshit.
To any rational reader the evidence is clear.

Any evidence I provide - Age will it reject as non-evidence.

And that's evidence that Age doesn't care about evidence.

Age only cares about that which he wants to hear.

Age is seeking validation for his BELIEFS.
Just maybe the readers would like to SEE this so called already presented "evidence" just once.

WHY is it really so hard for you to just copy and paste it here?

WHAT is it really that is STOPPING you from being able to do this?
Logik
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Re: Why humans can't get rid of their egos ?

Post by Logik »

Age wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:58 am Just maybe the readers would like to SEE this so called already presented "evidence" just once.
I can't present it 'just once' - that ship has sailed now.

We are on number 10 or 11 now. I don't know - who's counting?
Age
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Re: Why humans can't get rid of their egos ?

Post by Age »

Logik wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:32 am
Age wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:28 am NO. I DO NOT BELIEVE ANY THING.
I say you do and that's that.
And that is perfectly fine. As I have said, if you have MISSED it, "you" are FREE to BELIEVE whatever you want to BELIEVE.

By the way, when you say "that's that", some might infer that you BELIEVE that you do NOT have to provide any EVIDENCE whatsoever. It could appear to some that you have ALREADY decided that ALL that is NEEDED for proof is just what YOU SAY.

This is another example of just how powerful BELIEFS are, to the one that is HOLDING onto them.
Logik wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:32 am
Age wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:28 am NO. I do NOT have any beliefs.
Yes you do. And there is nothing you can say or do to convince me otherwise.
Another PERFECT response of one struck by and stuck in BELIEF.

This example of BELIEF, and its power, is even MORE than I was even LOOKING FOR.

No matter how times I have said that a person with BELIEFS is just about absolutely INCAPABLE of SEEING any thing contrary to their own BELIEF and that even EVIDENCE can NOT SHOW them otherwise, this one still clearly states this, as is more EVIDENCE than even I was wanting to evoke from them.
Logik wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:32 amClearly this is the hill you want to die on :)
Another PRIME example of BELIEFS at their most powerful. The EVIDENCE is really coming through thick and fast now. And this is just a BELIEF based on a self made up ASSUMPTION, which was completely WRONG from the outset.

By stating 'Clearly' does that mean it could NOT be anything else AT ALL?

Are "you" that FIXED in your own BELIEFS now that you are completely incapable of SEEING any other than that BELIEF?

Is that BELIEF so strong that there really is NOTHING that can be SHOWN to you that would convince you otherwise?

You continual contradictions of words Truly is amusing to me. Some times 'Everything "logik" says IS wrong', other times, 'What "logik" says can NOT be wrong', and, there is absolutely NOTHING I say or do, which can convince "logik" otherwise.

I wonder if "logik" can SEE the contradictions NOW?
Logik wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:32 am
Age wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:28 am To me the OBVIOUS IRONY of stating: 'Everything you say IS wrong' and 'I am 100% certain of that', clearly SHOWS that the one that said that subconsciously and/or even unconsciously BELIEVES that they can say things with absolute certainty and BE RIGHT but "EVERYTHING" what others say IS WRONG.
I don't believe any such thing. That is your belief.
But that is NO my belief at all.

This is just me SHOWING your own words, from my own perspective.

If you do NOT believe any such thing, then what do you BELIEVE.

And, if there is any thing WRONG and/or INACCURATE in what I wrote, from your perspective, then FEEL FREE to EXPOSE that wrongness, from YOUR perspective.

If I was just an observer and not responding, then I would certainly LOVE to SEE the WRONG that "you" SEE.
Logik
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Re: Why humans can't get rid of their egos ?

Post by Logik »

Age wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:05 am
Logik wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:32 am
Age wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:28 am NO. I DO NOT BELIEVE ANY THING.
I say you do and that's that.
And that is perfectly fine. As I have said, if you have MISSED it, "you" are FREE to BELIEVE whatever you want to BELIEVE.

By the way, when you say "that's that", some might infer that you BELIEVE that you do NOT have to provide any EVIDENCE whatsoever. It could appear to some that you have ALREADY decided that ALL that is NEEDED for proof is just what YOU SAY.

This is another example of just how powerful BELIEFS are, to the one that is HOLDING onto them.
Logik wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:32 am
Age wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:28 am NO. I do NOT have any beliefs.
Yes you do. And there is nothing you can say or do to convince me otherwise.
Another PERFECT response of one struck by and stuck in BELIEF.

This example of BELIEF, and its power, is even MORE than I was even LOOKING FOR.

No matter how times I have said that a person with BELIEFS is just about absolutely INCAPABLE of SEEING any thing contrary to their own BELIEF and that even EVIDENCE can NOT SHOW them otherwise, this one still clearly states this, as is more EVIDENCE than even I was wanting to evoke from them.
Logik wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:32 amClearly this is the hill you want to die on :)
Another PRIME example of BELIEFS at their most powerful. The EVIDENCE is really coming through thick and fast now. And this is just a BELIEF based on a self made up ASSUMPTION, which was completely WRONG from the outset.

By stating 'Clearly' does that mean it could NOT be anything else AT ALL?

Are "you" that FIXED in your own BELIEFS now that you are completely incapable of SEEING any other than that BELIEF?

Is that BELIEF so strong that there really is NOTHING that can be SHOWN to you that would convince you otherwise?

You continual contradictions of words Truly is amusing to me. Some times 'Everything "logik" says IS wrong', other times, 'What "logik" says can NOT be wrong', and, there is absolutely NOTHING I say or do, which can convince "logik" otherwise.

I wonder if "logik" can SEE the contradictions NOW?
Logik wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:32 am
Age wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:28 am To me the OBVIOUS IRONY of stating: 'Everything you say IS wrong' and 'I am 100% certain of that', clearly SHOWS that the one that said that subconsciously and/or even unconsciously BELIEVES that they can say things with absolute certainty and BE RIGHT but "EVERYTHING" what others say IS WRONG.
I don't believe any such thing. That is your belief.
But that is NO my belief at all.

This is just me SHOWING your own words, from my own perspective.

If you do NOT believe any such thing, then what do you BELIEVE.

And, if there is any thing WRONG and/or INACCURATE in what I wrote, from your perspective, then FEEL FREE to EXPOSE that wrongness, from YOUR perspective.

If I was just an observer and not responding, then I would certainly LOVE to SEE the WRONG that "you" SEE.
You keep telling us what your beliefs are NOT.

Tell us what you believe already.
Age
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Re: Why humans can't get rid of their egos ?

Post by Age »

Logik wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:44 am
Age wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:42 am They are NOT the same thing at all. Never have been, as far as I am aware.
Perfect! Then if experience and existence are NOT the same thing, then surely you can experience non-existence.
If you are so SURE of this, then explain HOW.

If "you" can SURELY experience non-existence, then some might be very curious as to HOW this is possible?

And, then you can explain WHY that just because 'experience' and 'existence' are NOT the same thing that that then SURELY equated to "you" being able to experience non-existence.

'Experience' and 'life' are also NOT the same thing, but then can you also surely experience non-life as well?
Logik wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:44 am
Age wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:42 am If you WANT to PROVE me WRONG or INCORRECT anywhere, then you will need a bit more than just; "You SEEM to be ...".
I don't want to prove you wrong. We have already established that you are wrong. As am I.
Who/what is "we"? What EVIDENCE do "you" have that "they" have already been established the same PROOF as you have?

In fact without any EVIDENCE at all you are just expressing BELIEFS, which, by definition, do NOT even to be proven as true.
Logik
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Re: Why humans can't get rid of their egos ?

Post by Logik »

Age wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:17 am If you are so SURE of this, then explain HOW.
You want me to explain experience? What the fuck?

Explain to me HOW you experience happiness.
Age
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Re: Why humans can't get rid of their egos ?

Post by Age »

AlexW wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:10 am
Age wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:02 am This "no" entity, labelled "age", is NOT worth listening to. In fact "it" is nothing that has ever been worthy of ever being heard. This "no" entity really does NOT deserve to be listened to at all.
Well, it couldn’t say anything anyway... a bundle of thoughts can’t talk, can it?
But, what is said from a human body, through writing or speech, is a bundle of thoughts
AlexW wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:10 amBut: everything deserves to be heard, that it IS heard is the only proof required that it is deserved to be heard (or read).
Reality makes no difference between words of truth and lies, it is one and the same for IT.
Who/What is 'IT', that is being "talked" about here?
Logik
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Re: Why humans can't get rid of their egos ?

Post by Logik »

Age wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:20 am Who/What is 'IT', that is being "talked" about here?
IT is 42.

If you aren't happy with this answer - explain why.
Age
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Re: Why humans can't get rid of their egos ?

Post by Age »

Logik wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:11 am
Age wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 9:58 am Just maybe the readers would like to SEE this so called already presented "evidence" just once.
I can't present it 'just once' - that ship has sailed now.

We are on number 10 or 11 now. I don't know - who's counting?
But they can NOT see what has NOT been presented.

Maybe it has been presented, maybe it has NOT. But instead of diverting away from the issue it would be much EASIER for you to just present SOME thing, and then say; THIS IS THE EVIDENCE, which you have been asking for.

Instead of finding "new" ways to TRY and work around the FACT that you are NOT presenting any EVIDENCE for YOUR CLAIMS.
Logik
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Re: Why humans can't get rid of their egos ?

Post by Logik »

Age wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:24 am But they can NOT see what has NOT been presented.
But it has been presented and therefore they can see it.

You are the only one who can't.
Age
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Re: Why humans can't get rid of their egos ?

Post by Age »

Logik wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:07 am
Age wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:05 am
Logik wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:32 am
I say you do and that's that.
And that is perfectly fine. As I have said, if you have MISSED it, "you" are FREE to BELIEVE whatever you want to BELIEVE.

By the way, when you say "that's that", some might infer that you BELIEVE that you do NOT have to provide any EVIDENCE whatsoever. It could appear to some that you have ALREADY decided that ALL that is NEEDED for proof is just what YOU SAY.

This is another example of just how powerful BELIEFS are, to the one that is HOLDING onto them.
Logik wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:32 am Yes you do. And there is nothing you can say or do to convince me otherwise.
Another PERFECT response of one struck by and stuck in BELIEF.

This example of BELIEF, and its power, is even MORE than I was even LOOKING FOR.

No matter how times I have said that a person with BELIEFS is just about absolutely INCAPABLE of SEEING any thing contrary to their own BELIEF and that even EVIDENCE can NOT SHOW them otherwise, this one still clearly states this, as is more EVIDENCE than even I was wanting to evoke from them.
Logik wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:32 amClearly this is the hill you want to die on :)
Another PRIME example of BELIEFS at their most powerful. The EVIDENCE is really coming through thick and fast now. And this is just a BELIEF based on a self made up ASSUMPTION, which was completely WRONG from the outset.

By stating 'Clearly' does that mean it could NOT be anything else AT ALL?

Are "you" that FIXED in your own BELIEFS now that you are completely incapable of SEEING any other than that BELIEF?

Is that BELIEF so strong that there really is NOTHING that can be SHOWN to you that would convince you otherwise?

You continual contradictions of words Truly is amusing to me. Some times 'Everything "logik" says IS wrong', other times, 'What "logik" says can NOT be wrong', and, there is absolutely NOTHING I say or do, which can convince "logik" otherwise.

I wonder if "logik" can SEE the contradictions NOW?
Logik wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:32 am I don't believe any such thing. That is your belief.
But that is NO my belief at all.

This is just me SHOWING your own words, from my own perspective.

If you do NOT believe any such thing, then what do you BELIEVE.

And, if there is any thing WRONG and/or INACCURATE in what I wrote, from your perspective, then FEEL FREE to EXPOSE that wrongness, from YOUR perspective.

If I was just an observer and not responding, then I would certainly LOVE to SEE the WRONG that "you" SEE.
You keep telling us what your beliefs are NOT.
NO I DO NOT. I keep telling "you"; I have NO beliefs, which is DIFFERENT.
Logik wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:07 amTell us what you believe already.
But have "you" NOT already claimed that you have what I believe already, and that "you" have already EVIDENCED that here, in this forum.

If you are STILL waiting for me to PROVIDE "you" with some EVIDENCE, then we will have to SEE how long we wait for.
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