uwot wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:18 am
You've lost me. First you say this:
Age wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:33 amAre you completely unaware that SOME 'facts' remain the same, while SOME 'facts' end up changing when they are proven to be actually false and/or wrong?
Then this:
Age wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:33 amWhat I meant by 'fact' is it is a thing that is proved to be true.
You appear to be mixing up epistemology and ontology.
To me I do not see that I am mixing things up. But we will have to wait and see if I am or not.
uwot wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:18 amWhat difference does our belief about it make to a state of affairs?
Nothing, and a lot. Depending on what perspective you are coming from. The very reason I do NOT have beliefs is because of the distortions and confusion they can so easily cause. For example, some people BELIEVE that some things have already been PROVEN to be, so then they BELIEVE that 'that' is a "fact", when to some "others" "it" is clearly NOT a fact at all. The difference your belief/s can make to a state of affairs although 'should' be none can, however, be huge. BELIEFS, in and of themselves, can actually create and cause a great deal of difference to the "state of affairs" in regarding truths and facts.
uwot wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:18 am For example, something like 'The earth is the centre of the universe', was never a fact just because everyone believed it to be true.
And what happens when the speed of the apple accelerating towards earth changes? Are you going to then say, if your are still around, that 'apples accelerate earthwards at 9.8mss' was NEVER a fact also? And, just because everyone, at that time, BELIEVED it to be true that did NOT make it a fact? Are you aware that the Universe is dynamic and therefore facts CAN and DO change.
The fact is more than likely some people, at a particular time, would have said; 'The earth is the center of the Universe' IS a fact. Just like some people, at the time of when this is written, say;
Apples accelerate earthwards at 9.8mss IS a fact. But this fact will probably change when the earth's orbit of the sun changes, so when does a 'fact' not become a 'fact' anymore?
What is proved to be true, at one particular point of time, and is said to be a fact may not be a fact at another particular point of time. Surely you could not get lost understanding this fact. So, the feedback I gave you from the outset of this thread;
What you call "facts" are NOT necessarily FACTS, in and of themselves. is still some thing I would at least consider, if I were you. Especially when ASSUMING and portraying in your book that 'facts' will remain facts, forever more. You asked for feedback. I have provided some. You are FREE to choose to consider it or NOT. If you do NOT consider it at all, then it is of no real concern to me.
By the way, I also asked you:
What do you mean by 'fact'? If I supposedly lost you, then maybe that has some thing to do with the definition of the word 'fact' that you are using here. When, and if, you provide that definition, then that might make it easy for me to help you so that you do NOT get lost again, or more. I provided my definition so that would help you, readers, to understand exactly where I am coming from.
When I ask for feedback and comments, and to be questioned and challenged, then I MEAN I want absolutely every word and letter scrutinized and critiqued so that absolutely EVERY wrong that is in there is highlighted and brought to the attention of all here so that EVERY wrong is CORRECTED. I know some might not like having their writings critiqued this much, but I Truly love it and WANT it.
Learning more and anew comes about much quicker when being SHOWN what is WRONG in my thinking. Learning more and anew is what I MOST desire. But then again 'I' am NOT 'you'. So, what I Truly WANT and DESIRE is NOT what 'you' Truly WANT and DESIRE.
uwot wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:18 amAge wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:33 amNow, is this "clearly different" from the meaning you give to the word 'fact'?
Yes
HOW, exactly, is the meaning 'I' give to the word 'fact' "clearly different" from the meaning that "you" give to the word 'fact'?
If you do NOT provide YOUR meaning and definition, then HOW will I ever KNOW that our they are "clearly" different?
uwot wrote: ↑Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:18 ameither way. The facts are the facts whether we know them or not.
So, what exactly is the definition of the word 'fact' that you are using here?
If the 'facts' are the 'facts' even if "we" NEVER know them, then how are facts arrived at. You earlier implied that facts are through the results of experiments, and the maths that describe them.