WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE HERE? WHY DO WE EXIST?

For all things philosophical.

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Belinda
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Re: WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE HERE? WHY DO WE EXIST?

Post by Belinda » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:23 am

Seeds wrote:
Ferdi wrote: ↑Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:46 am
Why assume to have a designer?
Because the alternative - (chance) - is just too ridiculous to hold as a plausible explanation.(Seeds replied)

The universe may be order and design, however that does not necessarily imply a Designer who planned the universe in advance of the universe happening.

If there is a Supernatural Being He may perhaps be the sort of Person Who likes to set something in motion and impartially watch what happens to it.

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henry quirk
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Post by henry quirk » Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:47 pm

'I have known many gods. He who denies them is as blind as he who trusts them too deeply. I seek not beyond death. It may be the blackness averred by the Nemedian skeptics, or Crom’s realm of ice and cloud, or the snowy plains and vaulted halls of the Nordheimer’s Valhalla. I know not, nor do I care. Let me live deep while I live; let me know the rich juices of red meat and stinging wine on my palate, the hot embrace of white arms, the mad exultation of battle when the blue blades flame and crimson, and I am content. Let teachers and priests and philosophers brood over questions of reality and illusion. I know this: if life is illusion, then I am no less an illusion, and being thus, the illusion is real to me. I live, I burn with life, I love, I slay, and am content.' -Robert E. Howard

seeds
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Re: WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE HERE? WHY DO WE EXIST?

Post by seeds » Fri Feb 22, 2019 8:08 pm

seeds wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:04 am
seeds wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:21 pm
What I am saying (asking) is that if the doubters of intelligent design were asked to design a context of reality that was meant to awaken new souls into existence, then what would they do differently?
Logik wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:57 am
For starters?

Forget the flying orbs.
And replace them with what?

In other words, describe a plausible alternative.
Logik wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:57 am
I would definitely not integrate the reproductive with excretory organs!
Ah, but orbs such as the earth are indeed excretory organs.

They excrete (effloresce) the essence of life from the fabric of their being – an efflorescence that coats their surfaces.
Logik wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:11 am
I don’t understand your criteria for plausibility?
My criteria for plausibility is that if you are going to create a dimension of reality that is capable of awakening new souls into existence, then not only must it be able to achieve that goal via the unique arrangement of its physical features,...

...but it must also appear logical (plausible) to beings who function at (or above) the human level of consciousness. Otherwise, we would probably be in a constant state of questioning and doubt as to the integrity of our surroundings.

Again, we are magnetically adhered to a ball that is flying through space at approximately 67,000 mph while being spun around - topsy-turvy - in a 24 hour rotisserie cycle. Yet, as we function on its surface, we are oblivious of any movement.

Such a “sleep-walking” type of obliviousness requires that our level of consciousness be attenuated in just the right amount in order to make our strange situation feel natural and believable to us (similar to our acceptance of the conditions taking place while being immersed in a vivid dream).

Consequently, the attenuation of our awareness can cause extremely intelligent humans to try and offer some kind of materialistic explanation for it all when, in fact, all they are doing is demonstrating the depth and degree of their somnambulism.
Logik wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:11 am
In the hands of a creator plausibility is not a concern. Imagination is the only limit.

I could put a penis on your forehead. As far from your urethra as possible.

You want a flat Earth?
It disagrees with the laws of physics? Change the laws of physics!
Fine.

And to an ape or bovine level of consciousness, a change in the laws of physics that allows for a flat earth would not raise an eyebrow.

However, to the human level of consciousness, I highly doubt that the spectacle of standing on either side of a coin-like phenomenon - flipping through space - would feel as natural as an orb.

The point is that it (a flat earth) would make our context of reality seem way fishier** (i.e., less “plausible”) than it already is, and might cause us to question the integrity of this soul-creating illusion even more than we already do (especially since the discovery of quantum mechanics).

**(Think about it. Even though the humans on the other side of this orb are literally upside-down from us, we are not vividly aware of it.

However, in the context of a flat earth, look down at the floor and imagine their upside-downness being inches away from where you are standing or sitting at this very moment. It would be totally bizarre.

Granted, it would be cool and fantasy-like. But that’s the problem, because I’m guessing that it would no longer feel as unquestionably natural as our orb world. Hence the plausibility issue.)

Logik wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:11 am
You cave [sic] total creative freedom.
No, you would not have total creative freedom, not if you are attempting to stay hidden from your creation; not if you are attempting to make your embryonic progeny (your cosmic “offspring”) believe that their dimension of reality is a naturally occurring phenomenon.
_______

Ferdi
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Re: WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE HERE? WHY DO WE EXIST?

Post by Ferdi » Sat Feb 23, 2019 6:18 am

Belinda wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:23 am
Seeds wrote:
Ferdi wrote: ↑Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:46 am
Why assume to have a designer?
Because the alternative - (chance) - is just too ridiculous to hold as a plausible explanation.(Seeds replied)

The universe may be order and design, however that does not necessarily imply a Designer who planned the universe in advance of the universe happening.

If there is a Supernatural Being He may perhaps be the sort of Person Who likes to set something in motion and impartially watch what happens to it.
The universe as far as we can observe it, has IMO been arranging itself ever since its ”birth” into the configuration we can observe plus whatever lies beyond our sight. It is not a matter of chance, but of Natural chaos where patterns may well be beyond us. Does it matter? I’m not aware of any particular pre-ordered pattern, and even if an earthling told us of having discerned some pattern, then any new star should be no bigdeal. The problem is that we do not know and cannot know what is out there because we have only limited tools and knowledge, are not able to know what lies beyond our horizon; infinity is not next door.
If there is a creator, then I hold the creator responsible not just for the good, but also for the bad. I expect it all to become clear at the instant of my death; prior to that, the LIFE in me has allowed me no such “insight”.
Do you honestly think that passing time with chess, horseracing, etc. fits the sphere of a “Supernatural Being”?
Re your quotation of R.E.Howard, a nice piece of fancy phrasing. He is free to believe whatever he likes, but he cannot have known any god. He will have to wait until he dies, he might then try this introduction: “Pleased to see you again”. God may answer ”who do you think you are?”

Belinda
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Re:

Post by Belinda » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:51 am

henry quirk wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:47 pm
'I have known many gods. He who denies them is as blind as he who trusts them too deeply. I seek not beyond death. It may be the blackness averred by the Nemedian skeptics, or Crom’s realm of ice and cloud, or the snowy plains and vaulted halls of the Nordheimer’s Valhalla. I know not, nor do I care. Let me live deep while I live; let me know the rich juices of red meat and stinging wine on my palate, the hot embrace of white arms, the mad exultation of battle when the blue blades flame and crimson, and I am content. Let teachers and priests and philosophers brood over questions of reality and illusion. I know this: if life is illusion, then I am no less an illusion, and being thus, the illusion is real to me. I live, I burn with life, I love, I slay, and am content.' -Robert E. Howard


Mr Howard is writing about what he enjoys. Maybe if there is a Creator He intended nothing more than that we enjoy ourselves. If there is no Creator enjoying ourselves is perhaps the true measure of human goodness, and beauty.

Fair enough. Maybe egoism is better than altruism. I myself believe that a dynamic tension between the two is best and that democratic regimes best serve both liberty and freedom.

Ramu
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Re: WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE HERE? WHY DO WE EXIST?

Post by Ramu » Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:07 pm

Davyboi wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:50 am
I know this is a basic question! But why our we here, most people go through there lives not questioning the reason why? People like us have ideas, views an urge to understand what this is all about? Do you think we are ever going to find the answer?
Because formless Source as infinity wanted to experience itself as form.

melancocky
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Re: WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE HERE? WHY DO WE EXIST?

Post by melancocky » Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:03 am

Ramu wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:07 pm
Davyboi wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:50 am
I know this is a basic question! But why our we here, most people go through there lives not questioning the reason why? People like us have ideas, views an urge to understand what this is all about? Do you think we are ever going to find the answer?
Because formless Source as infinity wanted to experience itself as form.
What do you mean by "Source as infinity"?

Atla
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Re: WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE HERE? WHY DO WE EXIST?

Post by Atla » Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:34 am

melancocky wrote:
Sat Feb 16, 2019 12:26 pm
To the OP, thank you for asking the real questions. Let me offer just one of my many different perspectives, just to keep things simple for now.

Science says that 14 billion years ago, there was nothing. Then there was stuff and specific rules for the stuff to follow. And eventually, that stuff arranged into me and you. How could nothing beget stuff? I believe it cannot. Therefore, I believe there was something beyond this so-called "beginning." I'll call it "higher reality" for now. That higher reality is a complete mystery. It might be impossible to know it. Maybe none of our faculties can help us find out. Maybe we may never be able to know during this experience we call "life." I certainly have not found this truth, as of yet.

All I know is... I have to do my best right now to make myself more physically, mentally, and emotionally in order. So right now, I work toward those responsibilities, and I have faith that I may find metaphysical truth in time. You could say that getting your world in order is your purpose, until you truly have time to contemplate deep reality. And we could all use some more order in our lives.
The idea that something came from nothing is probably insane, and contradicts the idea that stuff can't be created or destroyed anyway.

Yet many scientists tend to believe it. Other scientists don't, they usually believe that the Big Bang was just another stage in a chain of events.

But jumping to the idea that before it, there was a "higher reality", may be premature as well. I think the simplest, most natural idea is that the Big bang was the follow-up of a Big Crunch.

And here we have two main ideas: that time is circular and finite (one universe, or a finite closed chain of universes with circular time), or that time goes in cycles and is infinite (an infinite chain of universes).

seeds
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Re: WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE HERE? WHY DO WE EXIST?

Post by seeds » Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:52 pm

Belinda wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:23 am
Seeds wrote:
Ferdi wrote: ↑Thu Feb 21, 2019 3:46 am
Why assume to have a designer?
Because the alternative - (chance) - is just too ridiculous to hold as a plausible explanation.(Seeds replied)
Belinda wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:23 am
The universe may be order and design, however that does not necessarily imply a Designer who planned the universe in advance of the universe happening.
Belinda, what would it take to convince you that a Designer exists?
_______

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henry quirk
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"Belinda, what would it take to convince you that a Designer exists?"

Post by henry quirk » Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:55 pm

Here's the thing: Crom don't care if she believes.

Belinda
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Re: WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE HERE? WHY DO WE EXIST?

Post by Belinda » Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:59 pm

Seeds wrote:
Belinda, what would it take to convince you that a Designer exists?
_______
My conversion to one of the Abrahamic religions.

Nick_A
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Re: WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE HERE? WHY DO WE EXIST?

Post by Nick_A » Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:40 pm

Davyboi wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:50 am
I know this is a basic question! But why our we here, most people go through there lives not questioning the reason why? People like us have ideas, views an urge to understand what this is all about? Do you think we are ever going to find the answer?
I believe so. As our species consciously evolves it will become aware of universal purpose. It seems that once a person opens to the conscious awareness of universal purpose, why we are here within it and the part we play will become obvious.

But your question seems natural and I cannot see why there is so much resistance. For example if a person could explain to me how the logical universal laws governing creation appeared accidentally and without a conscious source then I could say it is possible there is no conscious source pr purpose for for creation

This belief may be the source of this modern conclusion that we create our own reality. We are what we think we are. If a man thinks he is a woman, then he is a woman. This is easy to defend in a purposeless universe but if our universe has a conscious purpose it is more logical to seek to understand it rather than trying to create our own reality.

Ferdi
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Re: WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE HERE? WHY DO WE EXIST?

Post by Ferdi » Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:26 am

Nick_A wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:40 pm
Davyboi wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:50 am
I know this is a basic question! But why our we here, most people go through there lives not questioning the reason why? People like us have ideas, views an urge to understand what this is all about? Do you think we are ever going to find the answer?
I believe so. As our species consciously evolves it will become aware of universal purpose. It seems that once a person opens to the conscious awareness of universal purpose, why we are here within it and the part we play will become obvious.

But your question seems natural and I cannot see why there is so much resistance. For example if a person could explain to me how the logical universal laws governing creation appeared accidentally and without a conscious source then I could say it is possible there is no conscious source pr purpose for for creation

This belief may be the source of this modern conclusion that we create our own reality. We are what we think we are. If a man thinks he is a woman, then he is a woman. This is easy to defend in a purposeless universe but if our universe has a conscious purpose it is more logical to seek to understand it rather than trying to create our own reality.
from Ferdi. I've muddled it up. I found no way to delete my entry at what I think is the wrong spot. I'll submit it and see what happens. My apologies.

Frank N Stein
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Re: WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE HERE? WHY DO WE EXIST?

Post by Frank N Stein » Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:40 am

Who cares?

Nick_A
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Re: WHY DO YOU THINK WE ARE HERE? WHY DO WE EXIST?

Post by Nick_A » Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:55 am

Frank N Stein wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:40 am
Who cares?
Your government cares. You were created by the government for the purpose of serving the government by obeying it and paying taxes. It is the least you can do to pay the government for allowing you to exist.

Stop asking foolish questions. Your government cares and all you have to do is believe, obey, and pay the bills. You should be on your knees saying thank you but instead you say who cares. Your government will even pay for your reeducation if necessary to make you normal and still you say "who cares." You owe the government an apology.

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