The Liar's paradox

What is the basis for reason? And mathematics?

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Logik
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Re: The Liar's paradox

Post by Logik » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:17 pm

Walker wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:15 pm
x is x

y is y
There are not grammatically correct propositions in type theory.

x = x ⇒ True

or

x = x ⇒ False.

It's just a choice.
Last edited by Logik on Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Walker
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Re: The Liar's paradox

Post by Walker » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:18 pm

Whatever, but,

x is x

y is y

x is not y

Sky is Sky

Blue is Blue

Sky is not Blue

Logik
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Re: The Liar's paradox

Post by Logik » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:19 pm

Walker wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:18 pm
Whatever, but,

x is x

y is y

x is not y

Sky is Sky

Blue is Blue

Sky is not Blue
OK, I know you are trying to be prescriptive about classical logc, BUT you can fuck off with your linguistic prescriptivism.

We are trying to solve Liar's paradox. And you are insisting on using the logic which causes it.

Walker
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Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re: The Liar's paradox

Post by Walker » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:20 pm

I simply listed a series of truths.

Make of them what you will.

Now, you fuck off.

Logik
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Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: The Liar's paradox

Post by Logik » Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:21 pm

Walker wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:20 pm
I simply listed a series of truths.

Make of them what you will.

Now, you fuck off.
No. You listed a bunch of axioms.

If you accept them as 'true' then so be it. I reject your simpleton religion.

To solve Liar's paradox you need a high-order logic. Like Type Theory.

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: The Liar's paradox

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:50 pm

Logik wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:21 pm
Walker wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:20 pm
I simply listed a series of truths.

Make of them what you will.

Now, you fuck off.
No. You listed a bunch of axioms.

If you accept them as 'true' then so be it. I reject your simpleton religion.

To solve Liar's paradox you need a high-order logic. Like Type Theory.
You need a higher-order logic than type theory.

Logik
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Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: The Liar's paradox

Post by Logik » Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:56 pm

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:50 pm
You need a higher-order logic than type theory.
Why?

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: The Liar's paradox

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:48 pm

Logik wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:56 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:50 pm
You need a higher-order logic than type theory.
Why?
You cannot avoid paradox at the general level when paradox is the foundation for all phenomenon. All measurement begins with a localization of some facet of "being". This in itself is an act of seperation resulting in a base dualistic state:

1) "Identity Axiom 1" as "△•△"

where "•" equivocates to any symbolic notation of relation and "△" equivocates to any variable, observes a base dualism where the act of observing a relation results in a basic dichotomy of the variable "△ and △" thus leaving the symbolic notation of "•" effectively undefined. This is isomorphically reflected in Point 2 an as such is determined by it and observed as a divergence of and convergence to Point 3.

2) "Identity Axiom 2" as "•△•"

The symbol notatation of relation, observed as "•" is in itself a variable and as a variable and can only be defined by a dichotomy. This "symbolic" variable of relation in turn is defined by the variables through which it relates; hence results in a base dualism. This is isomorphically reflected in Point 1 and as such is determined by it and observed as a divergence of and convergence to Point 3.

3) "Identity Axiom 3" as "◬"

The nature of the symbol of relation as variable and the variable existing through relation necessitates a dualism of form and function as observed by the dualistic nature of Points 1 and 2. This is a contradiction as there is no equilibrium to maintain a balance. This Dualistic nature of form/function in symbolism requires a form of inherent synthesis from which the dualism of Points 1 and 2 converge and diverge as Point 3 with Point 3 proven through Points 1 and 2.






The dichotomy of form and function where variable can be observed in a noun and verb state, can be further observed in the "metaphysics of language" thread.

Logik
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Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: The Liar's paradox

Post by Logik » Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:04 pm

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:48 pm
Logik wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:56 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:50 pm
You need a higher-order logic than type theory.
Why?
You cannot avoid paradox at the general level when paradox is the foundation for all phenomenon. All measurement begins with a localization of some facet of "being". This in itself is an act of seperation resulting in a base dualistic state:

1) "Identity Axiom 1" as "△•△"

where "•" equivocates to any symbolic notation of relation and "△" equivocates to any variable, observes a base dualism where the act of observing a relation results in a basic dichotomy of the variable "△ and △" thus leaving the symbolic notation of "•" effectively undefined. This is isomorphically reflected in Point 2 an as such is determined by it and observed as a divergence of and convergence to Point 3.

2) "Identity Axiom 2" as "•△•"

The symbol notatation of relation, observed as "•" is in itself a variable and as a variable and can only be defined by a dichotomy. This "symbolic" variable of relation in turn is defined by the variables through which it relates; hence results in a base dualism. This is isomorphically reflected in Point 1 and as such is determined by it and observed as a divergence of and convergence to Point 3.

3) "Identity Axiom 3" as "◬"

The nature of the symbol of relation as variable and the variable existing through relation necessitates a dualism of form and function as observed by the dualistic nature of Points 1 and 2. This is a contradiction as there is no equilibrium to maintain a balance. This Dualistic nature of form/function in symbolism requires a form of inherent synthesis from which the dualism of Points 1 and 2 converge and diverge as Point 3 with Point 3 proven through Points 1 and 2.






The dichotomy of form and function where variable can be observed in a noun and verb state, can be further observed in the "metaphysics of language" thread.
Why do you want to avoid paradox?

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Eodnhoj7
Posts: 4963
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Re: The Liar's paradox

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:08 pm

Logik wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:04 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:48 pm
Logik wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:56 pm

Why?
You cannot avoid paradox at the general level when paradox is the foundation for all phenomenon. All measurement begins with a localization of some facet of "being". This in itself is an act of seperation resulting in a base dualistic state:

1) "Identity Axiom 1" as "△•△"

where "•" equivocates to any symbolic notation of relation and "△" equivocates to any variable, observes a base dualism where the act of observing a relation results in a basic dichotomy of the variable "△ and △" thus leaving the symbolic notation of "•" effectively undefined. This is isomorphically reflected in Point 2 an as such is determined by it and observed as a divergence of and convergence to Point 3.

2) "Identity Axiom 2" as "•△•"

The symbol notatation of relation, observed as "•" is in itself a variable and as a variable and can only be defined by a dichotomy. This "symbolic" variable of relation in turn is defined by the variables through which it relates; hence results in a base dualism. This is isomorphically reflected in Point 1 and as such is determined by it and observed as a divergence of and convergence to Point 3.

3) "Identity Axiom 3" as "◬"

The nature of the symbol of relation as variable and the variable existing through relation necessitates a dualism of form and function as observed by the dualistic nature of Points 1 and 2. This is a contradiction as there is no equilibrium to maintain a balance. This Dualistic nature of form/function in symbolism requires a form of inherent synthesis from which the dualism of Points 1 and 2 converge and diverge as Point 3 with Point 3 proven through Points 1 and 2.






The dichotomy of form and function where variable can be observed in a noun and verb state, can be further observed in the "metaphysics of language" thread.
Why do you want to avoid paradox?
I am not avoiding one, just using it as a solution where it negates itself.

Logik
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Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: The Liar's paradox

Post by Logik » Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:13 pm

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:08 pm
I am not avoiding one, just using it as a solution where it negates itself.
Why do you want paradox to negate itself?

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: The Liar's paradox

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:16 pm

Logik wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:13 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:08 pm
I am not avoiding one, just using it as a solution where it negates itself.
Why do you want paradox to negate itself?
Why wouldn't a paradox negate itself, it wouldn't be paradoxical if it didn't.

Logik
Posts: 4041
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: The Liar's paradox

Post by Logik » Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:19 pm

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:16 pm
Why wouldn't a paradox negate itself, it wouldn't be paradoxical if it didn't.
You are answering the question with a question.

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: The Liar's paradox

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:20 pm

Logik wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:19 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:16 pm
Why wouldn't a paradox negate itself, it wouldn't be paradoxical if it didn't.
You are answering the question with a question.
All questions are the contextualization of answers.

Logik
Posts: 4041
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: The Liar's paradox

Post by Logik » Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:29 pm

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:20 pm
Logik wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:19 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:16 pm
Why wouldn't a paradox negate itself, it wouldn't be paradoxical if it didn't.
You are answering the question with a question.
All questions are the contextualization of answers.
Why contextualise answers?

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