The reality is indifferent

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bahman
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The reality is indifferent

Post by bahman » Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:02 pm

The reality is indifferent even if there was different meaning behind each mental state.

Impenitent
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Re: The reality is indifferent

Post by Impenitent » Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:39 pm

or so your current mental state leads you to believe...

-Imp

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bahman
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Re: The reality is indifferent

Post by bahman » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:57 pm

Impenitent wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:39 pm
or so your current mental state leads you to believe...

-Imp
The reality is that good and evil exist. We are coded to do good in an appropriate situation or do evil in another appropriate situation. We are able to choose though but that is indifferent also. Therefore the reality is indifferent.

surreptitious57
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Re: The reality is indifferent

Post by surreptitious57 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:00 pm

Reality is indifferent to everything not just the moral or immoral actions of human beings
That is because it has no function other than to exist in the state it does and nothing else

Age
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Re: The reality is indifferent

Post by Age » Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:36 pm

bahman wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:57 pm
Impenitent wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:39 pm
or so your current mental state leads you to believe...

-Imp
The reality is that good and evil exist. We are coded to do good in an appropriate situation or do evil in another appropriate situation. We are able to choose though but that is indifferent also. Therefore the reality is indifferent.
Is there really "appropriate" situations when it is all right to do "evil"?

Also, if we are CODED to do "evil", in "appropriate situations", then why are we punished for doing evil?

Or, is that PUNISHMENT of others, the "evil in appropriate situations" that you talk about?

To me, the reality that "evil" exists is only because adult human beings do evil things, and not because "evil" exists on its own. I also do NOT see "evil" as being encoded within the human being but rather just a learned behavior.

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bahman
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Re: The reality is indifferent

Post by bahman » Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:49 pm

Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:36 pm
bahman wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:57 pm
Impenitent wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 11:39 pm
or so your current mental state leads you to believe...

-Imp
The reality is that good and evil exist. We are coded to do good in an appropriate situation or do evil in another appropriate situation. We are able to choose though but that is indifferent also. Therefore the reality is indifferent.
Is there really "appropriate" situations when it is all right to do "evil"?
Yes, when are starving to death and see someone else also starving to death. It is right to kill and eat another person if one of you could survive the situation.
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:36 pm
Also, if we are CODED to do "evil", in "appropriate situations", then why are we punished for doing evil?
Because the situation what is right to do. People were used to cannibalism.
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:36 pm
Or, is that PUNISHMENT of others, the "evil in appropriate situations" that you talk about?
It could be. People still kill human beings for crime.
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:36 pm
To me, the reality that "evil" exists is only because adult human beings do evil things, and not because "evil" exists on its own. I also do NOT see "evil" as being encoded within the human being but rather just a learned behavior.
You experience evil therefore it is as real as good.

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bahman
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Re: The reality is indifferent

Post by bahman » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:03 pm

surreptitious57 wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:00 pm
Reality is indifferent to everything not just the moral or immoral actions of human beings
That is because it has no function other than to exist in the state it does and nothing else
Yes.

Age
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Re: The reality is indifferent

Post by Age » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:15 pm

bahman wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:49 pm
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:36 pm
bahman wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:57 pm

The reality is that good and evil exist. We are coded to do good in an appropriate situation or do evil in another appropriate situation. We are able to choose though but that is indifferent also. Therefore the reality is indifferent.
Is there really "appropriate" situations when it is all right to do "evil"?
Yes, when are starving to death and see someone else also starving to death. It is right to kill and eat another person if one of you could survive the situation.
So, why then is that "evil"?

In fact it could be said that that is "good and right".
bahman wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:49 pm
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:36 pm
Also, if we are CODED to do "evil", in "appropriate situations", then why are we punished for doing evil?
Because the situation what is right to do. People were used to cannibalism.
I am not sure what you are saying here.
bahman wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:49 pm
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:36 pm
Or, is that PUNISHMENT of others, the "evil in appropriate situations" that you talk about?
It could be. People still kill human beings for crime.
This is were deciding gets very hard and tricky. If human beings are, as you say, CODED to do "evil" in "appropriate situations", then EVERY human being could "justify" ALL of their "evil" behaviors, and therefore when or what is a crime, and when and why could a human being be punished by another human being for a crime? Especially if the murdering of another human being could be "evil" in "appropriate situation" also, which is a crime deserving of punishment also by other human beings.
bahman wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:49 pm
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:36 pm
To me, the reality that "evil" exists is only because adult human beings do evil things, and not because "evil" exists on its own. I also do NOT see "evil" as being encoded within the human being but rather just a learned behavior.
You experience evil therefore it is as real as good.
If evil is as real as good does NOT have much to do with if evil is CODED within human beings or not. I said that evil only exists because adult human beings do evil things. If, and when, adult human beings stop doing evil things, then I will not experience evil but I will still experience good. Therefore, evil will NOT be as real as good is. Evil would have gone extinct and thus NOT be in existence, nor really happening anymore, but good will be very real and flourishing real.

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bahman
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Re: The reality is indifferent

Post by bahman » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:43 pm

Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:15 pm
bahman wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:49 pm
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:36 pm


Is there really "appropriate" situations when it is all right to do "evil"?
Yes, when are starving to death and see someone else also starving to death. It is right to kill and eat another person if one of you could survive the situation.
So, why then is that "evil"?
It is evil if you care to live. Otherwise it is indifferent.
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:15 pm
In fact it could be said that that is "good and right".
Oh well, you need to prepare yourself to kill a person which this is right but not good to you if you were used to being good.
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:15 pm
bahman wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:49 pm
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:36 pm
Also, if we are CODED to do "evil", in "appropriate situations", then why are we punished for doing evil?
Because the situation what is right to do. People were used to cannibalism.
I am not sure what you are saying here.
We just discover to make our food, agriculture for example, and that allowed us chance to eat non-human being. That is coded inside our genes as a good now.
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:36 pm
bahman wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:49 pm
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:36 pm
Or, is that PUNISHMENT of others, the "evil in appropriate situations" that you talk about?
It could be. People still kill human beings for crime.
This is were deciding gets very hard and tricky. If human beings are, as you say, CODED to do "evil" in "appropriate situations", then EVERY human being could "justify" ALL of their "evil" behaviors, and therefore when or what is a crime, and when and why could a human being be punished by another human being for a crime? Especially if the murdering of another human being could be "evil" in "appropriate situation" also, which is a crime deserving of punishment also by other human beings.
Yes, that was an impression from me because I was good at that moment. Death is hard to accept to anybody. So killing is evil if you are aware that everything is indifferent but you decided to be good.
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:36 pm
bahman wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:49 pm
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:36 pm
To me, the reality that "evil" exists is only because adult human beings do evil things, and not because "evil" exists on its own. I also do NOT see "evil" as being encoded within the human being but rather just a learned behavior.
You experience evil therefore it is as real as good.
If evil is as real as good does NOT have much to do with if evil is CODED within human beings or not. I said that evil only exists because adult human beings do evil things. If, and when, adult human beings stop doing evil things, then I will not experience evil but I will still experience good. Therefore, evil will NOT be as real as good is. Evil would have gone extinct and thus NOT be in existence, nor really happening anymore, but good will be very real and flourishing real.
Yes, if everybody decide to do good in spite of knowing that the reality is indifferent or simply following the code which instruct them to do good if they are unaware. Needless to say for some people it is hard to be good. So you need to take care of them somehow.

Age
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Re: The reality is indifferent

Post by Age » Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:27 am

bahman wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:43 pm
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:15 pm
bahman wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:49 pm

Yes, when are starving to death and see someone else also starving to death. It is right to kill and eat another person if one of you could survive the situation.
So, why then is that "evil"?
It is evil if you care to live.
Yes, and that was my point.

Because obviously if they did not want to live, and in fact knew they were going to die, soon enough, maybe they would like and much prefer to be put out of their misery and killed sooner than later.
bahman wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:43 pm
Otherwise it is indifferent.
Always?
bahman wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:43 pm
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:15 pm
In fact it could be said that that is "good and right".
Oh well, you need to prepare yourself to kill a person which this is right but not good to you if you were used to being good.
If, however, a person wants assistance to be killed, to prevent unnecessary suffering, then could this be good?
bahman wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:43 pm
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:15 pm


I am not sure what you are saying here.
We just discover to make our food, agriculture for example, and that allowed us chance to eat non-human being. That is coded inside our genes as a good now.
So, for example, when you human beings stop killing and eating all animals, then is it by shear coincidence that that code inside your genes will say this is a good now also, or is it some thing else that decides that this code inside your genes as a good now?

By the way the coded "good" and "bad" within your genes does NOT change its "good" and "bad" along the way. The encrypted "good" and "bad" Knowledge code is fixed and the same ALWAYS. Just waiting to come-to-light or be revealed.

The passed on thoughts/knowledge, however, obviously changes along the way.
bahman wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:43 pm
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:36 pm


This is were deciding gets very hard and tricky. If human beings are, as you say, CODED to do "evil" in "appropriate situations", then EVERY human being could "justify" ALL of their "evil" behaviors, and therefore when or what is a crime, and when and why could a human being be punished by another human being for a crime? Especially if the murdering of another human being could be "evil" in "appropriate situation" also, which is a crime deserving of punishment also by other human beings.
Yes, that was an impression from me because I was good at that moment. Death is hard to accept to anybody.
Surely there is some bodies that accept death very easily?
bahman wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:43 pm
So killing is evil if you are aware that everything is indifferent but you decided to be good.
But what if it is good to kill some times?
bahman wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:43 pm
Age wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:36 pm


If evil is as real as good does NOT have much to do with if evil is CODED within human beings or not. I said that evil only exists because adult human beings do evil things. If, and when, adult human beings stop doing evil things, then I will not experience evil but I will still experience good. Therefore, evil will NOT be as real as good is. Evil would have gone extinct and thus NOT be in existence, nor really happening anymore, but good will be very real and flourishing real.
Yes, if everybody decide to do good in spite of knowing that the reality is indifferent or simply following the code which instruct them to do good if they are unaware.
When you use the word 'the' in front of the word 'reality', to me, it sounds like you want to express 'The reality of some thing or other'. But do you just mean, 'Reality (itself) is indifferent?
bahman wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:43 pm
Needless to say for some people it is hard to be good.
Yes I have noticed this. There still exists some human beings who even consider, let alone those ones that BELIEVE, that punishment for a crime is NOT "evil", but in fact a "good" thing to do. Some human beings still BELIEVE that it is a very good thing to do, and they are very happy, when they kill/murder other human beings for doing so called "evil" acts, or for even just having different views and beliefs.

In fact it could be said that ALL adult human beings find it hard to be good.
bahman wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:43 pm
So you need to take care of them somehow.
I truly agree here wholeheartedly that I need to take care of ALL you adult human beings, so that ALL children can and will grow up NOT being abused, like they are now.

How I do this is by teaching adults that the word 'discipline' involves 'self-discipline' to learn how to teach children what is right in Life, and that 'discipline' does NOT involve rules, laws, NOR punishment in any way, shape, nor form.

Veritas Aequitas
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Re: The reality is indifferent

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:49 am

You are being rhetoric and deceptive, note;

Note what is real, i.e. reality;
Reality
true; not merely ostensible, nominal, or apparent:
-the real reason for an act.

existing or occurring as fact; actual rather than imaginary, ideal, or fictitious:
-a story taken from real life.

being an actual thing; having objective existence; not imaginary:
-The events you will see in the film are real and not just made up.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/real
Indifference involves a state of mind of a living thing.

"The reality is indifferent" is a ridiculous statement because reality-itself [as defined above] is not an entity with consciousness.

For your OP to make any sense, you need to substantiate and prove Philosophical Realism is true to the highest critical thinking standard.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_realism

surreptitious57
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Re: The reality is indifferent

Post by surreptitious57 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:22 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
The reality is indifferent is a ridiculous statement because reality itself [ as defined above ] is not an entity with consciousness
Which is exactly the reason for saying that it is indifferent because it is not a living thing but merely a state of eternal existence
It cannot experience emotion because it cannot think or experience anything and so it can only be indifferent to all that there is

Veritas Aequitas
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Re: The reality is indifferent

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:33 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 5:22 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
The reality is indifferent is a ridiculous statement because reality itself [ as defined above ] is not an entity with consciousness
Which is exactly the reason for saying that it is indifferent because it is not a living thing but merely a state of eternal existence
It cannot experience emotion because it cannot think or experience anything and so it can only be indifferent to all that there is
Note all non-living things are also indifferent.
We cannot associate reality merely with non-living things.
  • Reality is all-there-is
    All-there-is comprised [part and parcel of] living things and human beings.
    Living things and human beings are not indifferent
    Therefore reality cannot be indifferent.
Can you dispute the above?

Note is not correct to relate "it" with "reality'.
If so, then what is that "it".
In this case you will have to proof "it" whatever it is, exists.
So far, what you have present are only empty claims of what 'it' is.

I assert again,
the dilemma of not being able to prove what reality is as an independent thing is due to one's own psychological impulses driven by an existential crisis.
Perhaps it was necessary then or even now for the majority, but the insistence an independent reality [God, absolute, etc.] can be given up with net positive consequences in the future.

surreptitious57
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Re: The reality is indifferent

Post by surreptitious57 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:10 am

Most of reality [ the observable Universe ] is physical and non biological and was entirely so before life evolved on Earth
We are part of reality but a very infinitesimal part of it and in mathematical tems an entirely insignificant part of it too
When we finally become extinct with no trace of us left at all reality will simply carry on existing just like it always has

Veritas Aequitas
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Re: The reality is indifferent

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:12 am

surreptitious57 wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:10 am
Most of reality [ the observable Universe ] is physical and non biological and was entirely so before life evolved on Earth
We are part of reality but a very infinitesimal part of it and in mathematical terms an entirely insignificant part of it too.
Reality-is-all-there-is where human beings are part and parcel thereof.
You cannot exclude human beings and claim that is reality, i.e. all-there-is.
When we finally become extinct with no trace of us left at all reality will simply carry on existing just like it always has
Note the catch-22.
The above is not fact unless you and other human beings are expressing and accepting the fact.
If humans are extinct, the above assertion cannot be asserted.
Thus 'all reality will simply carry on existing just like it always has' is moot.

How can you establish the truth of the above statement when there are no human beings to test, verify and accept it?

It is very tempting [emotional and psychological] to jump to conclusion on the above, but no matter how, you cannot conclude and be certain of the future, especially if humans are extinct.

This is why the contentious 'Philosophical Realism versus Philosophical anti-Realism' is very valid. I am with the Philosophical anti-Realists.

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