Nick_A wrote: ↑Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:09 am
The Great Unknown Is Me, Myself: A Conversation with Jacob Needleman
Well even the heading starts of absolutely INCORRECT to begin with.
Of course who is 'me', 'myself' is unknown to some, but not to ALL. So, that is NOT any type of unknown as it is already KNOWN by Me.
Nick_A wrote: ↑Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:09 am.............RW: So this idea of knowing myself—what does that mean? Clearly, the implication is that I don’t know myself.
JN: The great unknown is me, myself. We can talk all we want about Kant’s Critique of Pure Reason, and not knowing things in themselves, but this, myself, is the great unknown.
I really wish human beings would talk about themselves only, instead of making generalized statements as though EVERY one is the same in understanding and knowing as they are. This would help in the confusion that human beings cause and create.
Nick_A wrote: ↑Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:09 amRW: Yes. And are there levels of the unknown? There are things that are metaphysically, irreducibly unknowable, perhaps—and then way over here is ordinary knowing. I know that’s a chair over there and I know what you do with a chair. But is there a gray area between my ordinary knowing and not knowing? For example, I don’t know where I put my glasses. And after awhile, all of a sudden, I remember. Or maybe there’s a problem I don’t know how to solve, but after awhile, it comes to me.
Knowing thy True Self, fully, will also come to you human beings, eventually.
Nick_A wrote: ↑Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:09 amJN: What is the mind and its knowledge? This is certainly part of the fundamental question, who am I? What you say is so understandable, so ordinary—in a decent sense of the word—but behind this fundamental question of knowledge and the mind there’s a hidden question, and this hidden question opens up a world. Down deep, the question that you’re now speaking about is consciousness. We say, “knowing.” I know that’s a chair. I can touch it and so forth. But that doesn’t satisfy us—because we have the wrong question. It has to do with consciousness. And it’s a great unknown, this thing called consciousness. We don’t know what consciousness is. That’s stunning! I don’t know what consciousness is, and yet I’m sure I am conscious! Isn’t it so? The mind, the thoughts, the categories, the words about every kind of specifically human knowing and action —we’re talking about consciousness. This is the hidden question. One of the great questions in philosophy is how do we know?—but this classic philosophical question is actually a question about consciousness. Consciousness is man. That’s his unique possibility. So I think the whole idea of mind, knowledge, certainty, the unknown, has to do first and foremost with consciousness.
ALL of these words can be very easily explained in, and with, defining words, which when done properly and correctly fit together, perfectly like a puzzle, to form a picture perfect crystal clear description showing the full and True extent of Life, Itself. Even the meaning behind each and ALL words here can be easily done and also given.
There is nothing complex nor hard here.
Nick_A wrote: ↑Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:09 amRW: That’s beautiful. Sometimes it amazes me is that it’s not recognized that everything in life exists, first of all, as experience. We seem to miss this leap we take from experience to “things that are out there.” We just go out to them, without Descartes’ questioning, as if all the stuff out there is the whole story. But sometimes, I’m in a kind of state where it shocks me that nobody seems to recognize that it’s experience we really live in. Do you follow what I’m getting at?
I could also write; Sometimes it amazes me that people like rw are still so far behind in knowing what the person, or human self, is and how that personal self ONLY exists because of what the body has experienced. I could be amazed but because I KNOW exactly WHAT human beings are and WHY ALL human beings are the way they are, then this nor any thing else really amazes me now.
Nick_A wrote: ↑Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:09 amJN: It’s astonishing that this is not at the forefront of our awareness, let’s say, that I am experiencing this. The “I-ness” is lost in my life. I could go through a whole month, year, a whole lifetime and not realize that I am experiencing life. Consciousness is myself in some deep sense of the word. I’m not my arms and legs, my nose, my opinions. I’m not my words, my thoughts, my sensations. I’m not my organs. I’m a human being. A human being is defined by consciousness. That’s what you’re saying, if I understand it..........................
Consciousness is NOT 'myself' in some deep sense of the word because who/what is the 'my' in relation to 'self'? 'My-self' is a contradiction of terms. There is an actual reason WHY the word 'my-self' exists, this is because that is so that the One, that is the 'My', can be understood from the human 'self', and vice-versa. There is a My-self and a my-Self. A me and a Me, in other words. Now being able to sort through all of this and being able to fully distinguish between the "two" is what having True self-or Self-awareness entails.
If the answer to the question Who am I? is a human being, then who/what is a human being? I only ask that because defining a 'human being' by the word consciousness only confuses this, thousands of years, issue even more.
The VERY reason WHY you human beings are still looking for the exact same answers you were thousands upon thousands of years ago is so OBVIOUS, when you KNOW how to find the answers.
If one wants to gain a thorough and full understanding of the self, and thee Self, then obviously what they have been doing hitherto does NOT work. Human beings are still confused in how to LOOK AT and SEE things properly and correctly. You, human beings, just need to discover or learn the KNOW-HOW. Once you discover or learn this, then you can, literally, move on.
Nick_A wrote: ↑Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:09 amThey are discussing self awareness.
Do you really think this needed to be said?
Remember it was I who said I KNOW Who 'I' am. Therefore I am the one saying that I already have self-awareness, and have SHOWN this by providing some answers to who is the self question.
And remember it was you and others here who have NOT showed any sign of KNOWING any of this at all.
Nick_A wrote: ↑Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:09 amAn animal experiences and reacts to earthly influences.
An animal experiences and reacts to earthly influences, just like the human animal does.
Human beings are just an animal. This seems to be forgotten by those who think that they are NOT solely influenced by the "outside".
Nick_A wrote: ↑Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:09 amThey are speaking of a quality of consciousness that enables a person to be aware of their reactions.
For a person to be aware of their reactions, AFTER they happen, then that is just about one of the easiest things in life for a person to do. However, to be aware of the thoughts first, BEFORE the reaction/behavior, then that takes, and is, the highest quality of consciousness, or awareness. From this consciousness an understanding of who and what the actual person or self, and Being or Self, IS can be realized.
In order to be Truly AWARE and have a True UNDERSTANDING of one's reactions, or behaviors, what has to be noticed first is the thoughts, which caused the behavior. (If you want to delve further into the difference between 'reactions' and 'behaviors', then other things need to be understood first.)
With the words you are using you are just continuing on with the cause of the confusion here. The reason why human beings still do not understand consciousness fully is because of the language used, and the definitions and meanings they give to the words they use.
Nick_A wrote: ↑Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:09 amWhat is this “I” that becomes aware but soon disappears?
If you do NOT yet know, then that is extremely easy to answer and understand.
Nick_A wrote: ↑Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:09 amReal self awareness begins with the awareness that we are aware.
Who/what is the 'we' being referred to here?
Human beings may be aware but obviously they are not yet self-aware creatures. Otherwise the question Who am 'I'? would have already been answered properly and correctly.
Nick_A wrote: ↑Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:09 am Sometimes the experience of seeing oneself momentarily can change ones life.
So what?
In fact is there any experience at all that can NOT change one's life?
If, and when, you are truly self-aware, then you will understand and KNOW that 'you' are only the sum of ALL the experiences that that body has had. Absolutely EVERY experience a body has changes one's life. It IS, in fact, impossible NOT to change. Although with some of the BELIEFS that some people hang onto, with their lives, some could easily argue that this is NOT true. And, i would be very happy to agree with them, but the Truth is that I just could NOT.
Nick_A wrote: ↑Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:09 amThe experience of self awareness can begin superficially but has the potential to result in profound human understanding and the wisdom philosophy seeks.
'Philosophy' does not seek any thing. Only human beings seek things.
Profound human understanding is just that what has already been discovered and understood. This understanding is just some thing that most human beings in that year called "2019" have yet to learn.
One just needs to "step away" from looking at things from the subjective and closed human perspective and look from the truly objective and OPEN perspective, which is not that hard to do at all.
Nick_A wrote: ↑Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:09 amJudaka has raised the question of how we can psychologically profit from the study philosophy if we haven’t made efforts to know ourselves: have the experience of ourselves?
In what definition of the word 'philosophy' is being used here?
Once the self, and thee Self, are already KNOWN, thus to know ourselves has already been accomplished, there is NO 'studying' of philosophy. The 'love-of-becoming wiser' [phil-o-sophy] just returns.
Also, the word 'psychology' just relates to the study-of-psyche, or the study-of-self, so once again once this is KNOWN there is NO need to study philosophy as there is nothing to 'psychologically profit' from. When, and if, one has reached knowing thy Self, fully and truly, then in this regard there is nothing more to psychology. To KNOW that thy self, that is; the 'human being self' is just the result of, the sum of, or the outcome of, an experiencing human body, then discovering or learning Who and What thy Self is comes next. Once this is discovered, then Consciousness is fully and Truly understood also.
Nick_A wrote: ↑Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:09 amExperience provides the verification essential for philosophy to be more than egoistic theoretical arguments. Do you disagree with this summary?
That all depends on what definitions and meanings YOU are giving to words you use here.
ALL of the above can be so EASILY explained.
The human being is just another animal experiencing and reacting to earthly influences. Being able to "stand back" and look at that self completely objectively, is what Consciousness IS. SEEING that the human self is nothing more than the thoughts (and emotions) of an experiencing and reacting human body, with the 'person' living within that human body just being those thoughts and emotions. A person is NOT more nor less of a person because of any of the physical body parts, for example a person is not less of a person if an arm is missing. A person therefore is NOT the physical component of a human body. The person, which is just the self, is the thoughts and emotions within a human body. The person within a human body, is just a self, which is a result of what that human body has experienced. This definition of 'person' is ALSO the cause of how that human body behaves, or "reacts", which could be used as a word, but just for now.
"Studying philosophy" or "expressing one's own philosophy", or "doing philosophy" are just different terms that people use. The word 'philosophy' once meant love-of-wisdom, or having the love of becoming wiser. ALL human beings are born with this love. Unfortunately though, that innate love within children is driven out by adult human beings, and then lost to most human beings, if not all.
When, and if, that PHILOSOPHY is regained within a human being, then what I have been saying here, in this forum, can and WILL be fully understood. Until then, and has been proven multiple times already human beings will continue to just TRY TO use "egotistical theoretical arguments" against what I have been saying, which what I have been saying is really nothing more than just thee Truth.
If people are NOT going to inquire into what I am expressing and saying here, and thus continue to SHOW with evidence of how much PHILOSOPHY has been lost, in those people in the years of when this is written, then so be it. But I am NOT here to "convince" any one of any thing with any arguments.
As I have explained previously if one LOOKS from the Truly OPEN and KNOWING Mind, instead of from one's own closed and thinking brain, FIRST, and then use past experiences to verify what is being SEEN is True or NOT, then the actual and real Truth can and WILL be discovered, found, and/or revealed.
If a person wants to use EXPERIENCE to verify things, then use THOSE past experiences to verify WHY are you still looking for answers, when I am NOT?
What those two named human beings, nick_a, and jakada have been discussing and talking about is as old to Me as when discussing whether or not the earth revolved around the sun first began to be talked about, is to those four people. In relative terms what you are discussing here nick_a is probably much older for Me. Knowing that you human beings are just experiencing creatures is absolutely nothing new to Me, and for human beings to think that they are Consciousness, Itself, does not amaze Me at all either. Human beings do have a tendency to think and believe that they are at the highest level of consciousness. Understanding HOW and WHY they are so delusional at times, especially in this regard, will help them in understanding thy selves better.