Morality as Symmetry in Time

Should you think about your duty, or about the consequences of your actions? Or should you concentrate on becoming a good person?

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Logik
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Re: Morality as Symmetry in Time

Post by Logik » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:50 pm

Age wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:49 pm
But how did you JUMP to that conclusion?

You have absolutely NOTHING to base that conclusion on.
Precisely!

You have failed to provide any evidence of justification, but you expect me to believe your answer. Hypocrite!

Absence of justification is evidence of absence of justification!

Age
Posts: 3231
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Morality as Symmetry in Time

Post by Age » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:54 pm

Logik wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:50 pm
Age wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:49 pm
But how did you JUMP to that conclusion?

You have absolutely NOTHING to base that conclusion on.
Precisely!

You have failed to provide any evidence of justification, but you expect me to believe your answer. Hypocrite!

Absence of justification is evidence of absence of justification!
So have you reasoned out that if I have failed to justify my answer, then you believe that your belief is correct?

Logik
Posts: 4041
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: Morality as Symmetry in Time

Post by Logik » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:59 pm

Age wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:54 pm
So have you reasoned out that if I have failed to justify my answer, then your belief is correct?
I have concluded that when you answered "Yes" to "Can humans reason?" you provided no justification for your answer.

I have also concluded that whatever justification you may come up with will only contain even more yes/no questions that you can't justify. And if you try to justify your justification you will end up with even more yes/no questions.

The more you try to justify your answer, the further from justifying it you get!

You don't believe me? Go ahead and justify why you answered "Yes" to "Can humans reason?"

Age
Posts: 3231
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Morality as Symmetry in Time

Post by Age » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:10 pm

Logik wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:59 pm
Age wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:54 pm
So have you reasoned out that if I have failed to justify my answer, then your belief is correct?
I have concluded that when you answered "Yes" to "Can humans reason?" you provided no justification for your answer.
Was I meant to?

If you just ask a yes/no question, then you will only get a yes/no answer, logically.
Logik wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:59 pm
I have also concluded that whatever justification you may come up with will only contain even more yes/no questions
But justifications do NOT contain yes/no questions. You, however, may further ask yes/no questions. Can you SEE the difference?
Logik wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:59 pm
that you can't justify.
That is an ASSUMPTION that could be WRONG.
Logik wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:59 pm
And if you try to justify your justification you will end up with even more yes/no questions.
No, I do NOT end up with more yes/no questions. You, however, may do.
Logik wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:59 pm
The more you try to justify your answer, the further from justifying it you get!
That is YOUR ASSUMPTION, which you would have to admit COULD BE WRONG.
Logik wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:59 pm
You don't believe me?
WHEN are you EVER going to LISTEN and LEARN? I do NOT have any BELIEFS.

So, I am NEVER going to believe nor not believe any thing, which includes YOU.
Logik wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:59 pm
Go ahead and justify why you answered "Yes" to "Can humans reason?"
Go ahead and justify why I can NOT.

But you can NOT do that because you have absolutely no reasons whatsoever for why I can NOT, have you? You call yourself "logik" and say that you work with logic but really you have NOT thought this through at all.

Logik
Posts: 4041
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: Morality as Symmetry in Time

Post by Logik » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:17 pm

Age wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:10 pm
But justifications do NOT contain yes/no questions.
Justifications contain answers to yes/no questions.

That you have taken the question for granted and have come up with an answer is your error.

Go ahead and provide a justification and I'll show you the yes/no questions you've taken for granted.
Age wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:10 pm
No, I do NOT end up with more yes/no questions. You, however, may do.
Are you saying that there are SOME yes/no questions to which you "just know" the answers to, but you can't justify them?

How do you know that your answer is right?

You are no different to a coin!
Age wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:10 pm
That is YOUR ASSUMPTION, which you would have to admit COULD BE WRONG.
On the balance of probabilities you also have to admit that I could be right.

I think the odds of me being right dwarf the odds of me being wrong.
Age wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:10 pm
Go ahead and justify why I can NOT.
Because you haven't! Because all you have given me is a "Yes" answer without any explanation whatsoever as to how you arrived at that conclusion.

You have done EXACTLY the same thing as my coin!
Age wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:10 pm
But you can NOT do that because you have absolutely no reasons whatsoever for why I can NOT, have you? You call yourself "logik" and say that you work with logic but really you have NOT thought this through at all.
I don't understand what you mean by "I can NOT do that". I have done it. Right in front of you.
Do you not believe your eyes?

Or when you say "you can NOT do that" did you mean to say "you are not ALLOWED" to do that?

Is it not logical to disbelieve your yes/no answers since you provide absolutely no evidence for the answer's correctness?

Age
Posts: 3231
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Morality as Symmetry in Time

Post by Age » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:26 pm

Logik wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:17 pm
Age wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:10 pm
Go ahead and justify why I can NOT.
Because you haven't! Because all you have given me is a "Yes" answer without any explanation whatsoever as to how you arrived at that conclusion.

Age wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:10 pm
But you can NOT do that because you have absolutely no reasons whatsoever for why I can NOT, have you? You call yourself "logik" and say that you work with logic but really you have NOT thought this through at all.
I have done it. Right in front of you.
But you can NOT show the reasons why I can NOT justify my yes answer, can you?

Logik
Posts: 4041
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: Morality as Symmetry in Time

Post by Logik » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:28 pm

Age wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:26 pm
But you can NOT show the reasons why I can NOT justify my yes answer, can you?
I can't show you any reasons (and you seem to insist on using the word 'reason' as if you are trying to get me to admit to reasoning. Sorry, champ.).

I can show you all the theoretical knowledge on which I base my conclusion.

I have put forward a theory: No human can justify why they answered "Yes" or "No" to "Can humans reason?".

My theory is based on a fundamental understanding of decision theory which states that every positive claim about reality can be turned into a yes/no question.

Dave Hilbert posed a challenge for a universal mathematical solution to the Entscheidungsproblem.
Alan Turing proved that a general solution to the Entscheidungsproblem is impossible, therefore there are yes/no questions which are unjustifiable, except by intuition.

If my theory is valid. And you are a human then I can deduce that you cannot justify your answer either.
Last edited by Logik on Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Age
Posts: 3231
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Morality as Symmetry in Time

Post by Age » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:30 pm

Logik wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:28 pm
Age wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:26 pm
But you can NOT show the reasons why I can NOT justify my yes answer, can you?
I am not the one trying to justify my answers.

I have put forward a theory: Age cannot justify why Age answered "Yes" to "Can humans reason?".

Until such time the theory is proven false, it's a valid theory.
How did you arrive at such a "theory"

Age
Posts: 3231
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Morality as Symmetry in Time

Post by Age » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:35 pm

Logik wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:17 pm
Age wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:10 pm
That is YOUR ASSUMPTION, which you would have to admit COULD BE WRONG.
On the balance of probabilities you also have to admit that I could be right.
I do NOT have to admit any thing here because I am NOT assuming any thing either way. I am just remaining completely OPEN.
Logik wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:17 pm
I think the odds of me being right dwarf the odds of me being wrong.
lol, and what is this supposedly based upon?

Logik
Posts: 4041
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: Morality as Symmetry in Time

Post by Logik » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:37 pm

Age wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:30 pm
How did you arrive at such a "theory"
My theory is based on a fundamental understanding of decision theory which states that every positive claim about reality can be turned into a yes/no question.

Dave Hilbert posed a challenge for a universal mathematical solution to the Entscheidungsproblem.
Alan Turing proved that a general solution to the Entscheidungsproblem is impossible, therefore there are yes/no questions which are unjustifiable.

If my theory is valid. And you are a human then I can deduce that you cannot justify your answer either.
Last edited by Logik on Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Logik
Posts: 4041
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: Morality as Symmetry in Time

Post by Logik » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:39 pm

Age wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:35 pm
I do NOT have to admit any thing here because I am NOT assuming any thing either way. I am just remaining completely OPEN.
This is a lie. You claimed that you can justify your answer. Therefore you assumed you can justify your answer.

To remain open would be to admit that you don't know if you can or cannot justify your answer.

To me it was pretty obvious that you were leaning one way in particular...
Age wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:35 pm
lol, and what is this supposedly based upon?
Experience and lots of practice.

Age
Posts: 3231
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Morality as Symmetry in Time

Post by Age » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:43 pm

Age wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:30 pm
Logik wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:28 pm
Age wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:26 pm
But you can NOT show the reasons why I can NOT justify my yes answer, can you?
I am not the one trying to justify my answers.
OBVIOUSLY, neither am I.
Age wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:30 pm
I have put forward a theory: Age cannot justify why Age answered "Yes" to "Can humans reason?".
Are you, by the way, trying to suggest that it is NOT a BELIEF that you HOLD anymore?

Logik
Posts: 4041
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: Morality as Symmetry in Time

Post by Logik » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:45 pm

Age wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:43 pm
Are you, by the way, trying to suggest that it is NOT a BELIEF that you HOLD anymore?
I don't know how you use the word "belief".

I am predicting that you can't justify your answer.

I am predicting that by 14:00 GMT you will not have provided a justification for your answer.

Therefore your answer is as correct/incorrect as a coin toss.

Age
Posts: 3231
Joined: Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:17 am

Re: Morality as Symmetry in Time

Post by Age » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:46 pm

Logik wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:39 pm
Age wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:35 pm
I do NOT have to admit any thing here because I am NOT assuming any thing either way. I am just remaining completely OPEN.
This is a lie. You claimed that you can justify your answer.
Did I?

If yes, WHERE was that.
Logik wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:39 pm
Therefore you assumed you can justify your answer.
Did I?

How do you KNOW I assumed such a thing.
Logik wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:39 pm
To remain open would be to admit that you don't know if you can or cannot justify your answer.
But I have already justified it.

Logik
Posts: 4041
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:48 pm

Re: Morality as Symmetry in Time

Post by Logik » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:47 pm

Age wrote:
Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:46 pm
But I have already justified it.
I asked the coin: Did Age justify his answer?

The coin said "No"
coin.png
coin.png (79.62 KiB) Viewed 445 times

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