Logik wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:12 pm
Age wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:52 pm
Yes I am. Have you NOT been seeing and understanding what I have been saying.
What I have been saying is here, can be plainly seen in the written word, for ALL to see.
I understand what you have been WRITING. I don't understand what you have been SAYING because you haven't been SAYING anything.
Or is that too literal for you?
I was the one who asked you; Have you NOT been understanding what I have been saying?
Finally you answered.
Also, If I have NOT been saying any thing, then WHY are you responding?
We could go on forever like this, if you want to. Do you want to?
You asked me, if humans can reason, I said YES. So, I have said some thing.
Logik wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:12 pmAge wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:52 pm
What I have been saying is here, can be plainly seen in the written word, for ALL to see.
Where do you think or believe these written words, in front of you now, are coming from?
They are My spoken words, just in written form.
OK. So words can take many forms?
Are you asking a question or saying some thing (in written form)?
You added a question mark, which implies one thing, but your use of words imply some thing else.
Logik wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:12 pmWhy is heads or tails not a valid form for yes and no?
Who said that they were NOT?
Of course this would also depend on what answers you are SEEKING. Obviously a coin toss is NOT a valid form in regards to true, right, and correct answers. Only human beings can provide and give those valid forms of answers.
Logik wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:12 pmAge wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:52 pm
But we are, literally, speaking to each other. How else do you think or believe the words from inside of this human body are getting inside that human body?
We are literally WRITING to each other. SPEAKING implies words transmitted over sound waves using voices. And hearing you speak implies ears etc..
Again. Too literal for you?
Can you NOT hear what another is SAYING through the written word.
How do human beings who are deaf speak to each other and HEAR what the other is SAYING?
What is being said within a human body can be seen and heard in many different forms.
AGAIN, so WHAT?
Who cares?
What has this got to do with any thing?
What is it about this particular word of 'binary' that you really WANT to share with us here?
Logik wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:12 pmAge wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:52 pm
That is true. Those symbols COULD mean absolutely any thing. It all depends on you and what meaning you put into and on those symbols.
OK then why is this confusing you?
Why is WHAT confusing?
Inform us WHAT IT IS that you are wanting to express.
Logik wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:12 pmI've put the same meaning into "heads" and "tails" as you've put into the symbols "yes" and "no".
Yes I KNOW you have. That was VERY obvious.
Logik wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:12 pmAge wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:52 pm
The coin, and its symbols, only mean what you, yourself, give to it.
And the symbols "yes" and "no" only mean what you yourself give to them.
Of course.
Still no different to a coin...[/quote]
The only difference is I find NO need to give a "yes" and a "no" to a coin, like you do.
We are in a philosophy forum where statements are made, and to me the best way to gain understanding of what another is saying is through asking clarifying questions.
For you, however, this is different. You appear to want to prove some point about some thing but as of yet have NOT come out and clearly stated that position.
Logik wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:12 pmAge wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:52 pm
They do NOT communicate any thing by themselves.
They communicate "heads" and "tails"!
ONLY if that is what YOU are LOOKING FOR.
Logik wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:12 pmAnd I interpret that to mean the exact same thing as I interpret when you say "Yes" and "No".
If that is how you go through life, then so be it. But that is NOT how I do things.
Logik wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:12 pmDo you understand what "Yes" and "No" means?
What is this question in reference to?
I have an understanding of what yes and no means.
Logik wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:12 pmAge wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:52 pm
But just to clarify things here now, are you still trying to suggest or state that I, through a human body, can NOT tell you any thing through written words but yet a coin, which has absolutely NO communication ability whatsoever to tell you some thing, can tell you some thing and communicate this to you through itself?
You can tell me many things.
You cannot justify why you answered "Yes" to the question "Can humans reason?".
Now we are FINALLY getting some where.
WHY did you make this ASSUMPTION and BELIEVE it to be true?
That is a pretty big prediction to make. Are you going to stand by it?
Logik wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:12 pmAge wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:52 pm
Do you think or believe that the type of work you do has affected the way you look at and see things?
Yes. The type of work I do has helped me deeply understand the challenges of the human condition.
Could it have DISTORTED you in any way whatsoever?
How deep does 'deeply' refer to?
What human condition are you referring to?
And, what supposed "challenges" do you see?
Logik wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:12 pmAge wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:52 pm
You seem to be under some sort of illusion about how things can and/or can NOT be answered.
Is it an illusion?
Is it fact?
Well you certainly have NOT shown either way yet, because you have NOT yet clearly expressed any thing yet.
I have been waiting for you to provide some examples, but I still am waiting.
Logik wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:12 pmAge wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:52 pm
Would you like to move passed where we are now and get to the point that you want to eventually TRY and make?
I made my point quite early on. You cannot justify why you answered "Yes" to "Can humans reason?".
Hang on. Just saying; "You cannot do some thing" does NOT, and I will repeat, DOES NOT make a point at all.
You are just expressing a BELIEF that you have, and clearly dearly WANT TO hang onto also.
Logik wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:12 pmAge wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:52 pm
As I have explained you are completely FREE to choose whatever you want, from ALL the choices possible to you.
So why did you choose "Yes" when I asked you "Can humans reason?"
Because yes is the answer.
Logik wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:12 pmWhy didn't you choose "No"?
Because no is NOT the answer.
Logik wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:12 pmAge wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:52 pm
Of course YOUR decision was NOT right.
So when the coin answered "Yes" to the question "Can humans reason?" it was NOT right,
Of course NOT.
Coins do NOT know things, like I do.
but when Age answered "Yes" to the same question it was right?
Logik wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:12 pmThis is very confusing.
This is very confusing, to you, because YOU are confusing the issue. You ask me questions, but then YOU mix the answer up with some other thing/question.
For example; I said your CHOICE in choosing yes or no for a head or a tail was NEITHER wrong NOR right, but for some reason that only you would be aware of, that is; if you were actually taking notice of what you are actually doing here, YOU changed my responses to a particular question, to correspond to some other question, of which I did NOT answer.
Logik wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:12 pmAge wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:52 pm
You really do come to asking some strange questions based on your WRONG assumptions.
Are my assumptions wrong?
Yes.
Logik wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:12 pmHow did you decide that?
No decision was nor is necessary.
When you ASSUME some thing that only I would be aware of, then I KNOW, already, when YOUR assumptions are WRONG.
Logik wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:12 pmAge wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:52 pm
Of course NOT. I just clearly expressed this.
But what if you are wrong?
In regards to WHAT exactly?
Logik wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:12 pmAge wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:52 pm
Could you NOT understand what I just wrote.
I mean. You could ask me, or you could ask a coin...
You will get a yes/no either way!
But one COULD be WRONG, where the other WOULD be RIGHT, that is; if you are HONEST with me.
Logik wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:12 pmAge wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:52 pm
If you really BELIEVE that a coin can and/or will provide you with the answers that you are seeking, then feel free to proceed.
I didn't say that. What I said that a coin is giving me the EXACT same answers as you are!
Is that an imaginary coin that you are speaking of?
Because NO no real coin will do that, with enough questions.
If you, prior to starting, nominate one side of a coin for yes and the other side for no, then that the coin will NOT always land the same way that I respond to yes no questions continually?
Logik wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:12 pmAge wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:52 pm
No thing can force you to believe any thing that you do not want to believe.
And yet you believe that you can justify your answer.
But I do NOT believe that?
I hope that you are NOT going to go through the same thing that you went through before, regarding BELIEFS with Me.
Logik wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:12 pmWho forced you to believe that you can when you clearly can't?
But I do NOT believe that.
So, WHY are you absolutely 100% SURE that I can NOT justify my answer?
Logik wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:12 pmAge wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:52 pm
If that is ALL you want to ask, then honestly that seems strange, but go ahead anyway.
Is there any real point to doing so?
If yes, then what is that point?
The point is to demonstrate simply that you can't justify why you answered "Yes" to "Can humans reason?".
How do you KNOW that i can NOT justify my answer?
Logik wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:12 pmFor any justification you provide will rest upon more and more yes/no questions which you can't justify.
Besides the actual FACT that any justification does NOT "rest upon more and more yes/no questions" to say/argue that 'justification' itself does rest on that is really rather strange. And, that is EXACTLY WHY I find ONLY asking yes/no questions a VERY STRANGE thing to do.
With truly clarifying questions I can VERY EASILY justify My answers.
Logik wrote: ↑Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:12 pmSo "knowledge" (justified true belief) is impossible.
lol
So, what is the 'knowledge' ("justified" true belief), that "knowledge" (justified true belief) is impossible classed as?
Also, as impossible.
Seems very peculiar to use so called "knowledge" to state that "knowledge" is impossible.
The only thing that you have ATTEMPTED to show here is through yes/no questions nothing can be justified.
Well this could be put down to the fact that this will be solely depended upon what questions exactly are asked.
Now, just to point out, which would already be clearly obvious to some by now, that if a person was allowed to ONLY ask yes/no questions and allowed to ONLY ask the ones that they wanted to, then OBVIOUSLY they could just about prove any thing that they wanted to.
Talk about BIAS CONFIRMATION in its highest form.
Of course a person would ONLY ask questions, if they were allowed to, that would back up and support their obviously already held ASSUMPTIONS and BELIEFS. To do otherwise would be really a rather foolish thing to do.
Now, if you want to ask me ONLY yes/no questions, and ONLY yes/no questions that you want to ask, so that you can prove that YOUR own BELIEFS are true, right, and/or correct, then go right ahead. I, for one, am now interested in SEEING what will actually eventuate out of this.
You asked me, Can humans reason?
I answered, Yes.
Continue...