Perspective

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Walker
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Re: Perspective

Post by Walker » Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:39 am

Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:23 am
Btw, I did not state ALL religions has elements of brainwashing.
Didn't mean to imply that.

However, elements of brainwashing in order to manipulate a mind towards a pre-determined state can be applied to any aspect of life, or any religion.

The difference is whether or not that state is evolved, or devolved, with life as the measure and with the chaos of entropy, a motionless soup of sameness, being the result of devolution, while human evolution tends towards order.

Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 1793
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Re: Perspective

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:18 am

Walker wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:39 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:23 am
Btw, I did not state ALL religions has elements of brainwashing.
Didn't mean to imply that.

However, elements of brainwashing in order to manipulate a mind towards a pre-determined state can be applied to any aspect of life, or any religion.

The difference is whether or not that state is evolved, or devolved, with life as the measure and with the chaos of entropy, a motionless soup of sameness, being the result of devolution, while human evolution tends towards order.
That "state" is an evolved state to facilitate survival if the tendency is directed to the positive, but that 'state' is termed "brainwashing" when the purpose is for the negative and evil.

Analogy: the state of sexuality is evolved to facilitate procreation and thus survival of the human species. But that same fundamental state of sexuality is exploited in pornography and the evils related to sex.

It is also very common in tribal rites and customs where the mental activities imposed on the individual[s] are the same as 'brainwashing' to align the individual[s] to the tribal goals to facilitate their survival as a cohesive group against threats from enemies.

Similarly such activities [similar to brainwashing] are used in team building, armies, etc but they do not use the derogatory term 'brainwashing.

Nick_A
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Re: Perspective

Post by Nick_A » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:18 am

V A
This is why I advocated one should explore religions and religiosity from the psychological perspective to uncover any inherent brainwashing elements within any religion.
A dangerous idea and should be avoided as poison in a secular society. It is simply intolerable. But at the risk of inviting the wrath of the secular gods, I'll limit my response to a simple idea.

The esoteric paths of religion have the goal of awakening. In contrast the secular paths of religion, politics, and education, have the goal of indoctrinating beliefs. Contemplating the difference is essential for the seeker of truth but insulting and a pain in the ass for everyone else. It really is not fit for polite company so to speak but only for those drawn to the question of why humanity as a whole lacks a human perspective worthy of the name MAN. For others it is better just to complain about Trump.

Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 1793
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: Perspective

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:55 am

Nick_A wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:18 am
V A
This is why I advocated one should explore religions and religiosity from the psychological perspective to uncover any inherent brainwashing elements within any religion.
A dangerous idea and should be avoided as poison in a secular society. It is simply intolerable. But at the risk of inviting the wrath of the secular gods, I'll limit my response to a simple idea.

The esoteric paths of religion have the goal of awakening. In contrast the secular paths of religion, politics, and education, have the goal of indoctrinating beliefs. Contemplating the difference is essential for the seeker of truth but insulting and a pain in the ass for everyone else. It really is not fit for polite company so to speak but only for those drawn to the question of why humanity as a whole lacks a human perspective worthy of the name MAN. For others it is better just to complain about Trump.
Let's look at the issue from another perspective in terms of the grade of spirituality.
  • 1. Crude Primal religion = 20/100 Grade of Spirituality [GoS]
    2. Common theistic religions = 40/100 GoS
    3. Esoteric theistic religions = 70/100 GoS

    4. Common non-theistic religions = 50/100 GoS
    5. Esoteric non-theistic religions = 80/100 GoS
    6. Philosophical non-theistic religion = 90/100 GoS
The above are my estimations based on research and you are entitle to dispute it.

Note I am not bringing is secular matters, e.g. politics, social, economics, etc.

My point is, I acknowledge you are into the esoteric path of religion but this is at best 70/100 which is good for humanity but not good enough at a more advance level of spirituality.
Such a level at 70/100 is not efficient for humanity in the longer term to get humanity to work at a team to exploit synergy to face whatever the threat to humanity in the future 50, 100 or 200 years in time.
Just relying on Simone Weil and her likes will be very limited.

What I am trying to push is, where possible one should strive to adopt the practices of the spirituality of point 6 above, i.e. Philosophical non-theistic religion & spirituality = 90/100 GoS. Herewith humanity will not just depend on one or two philosophers but will take into account all sources of knowledge from everywhere that are relevant and efficient.
At this level of 90+/100 humans will align spontaneously as Team Human to face all problems of global and galatical scale threatening humanity in the future.

Nick_A
Posts: 3766
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:23 am

Re: Perspective

Post by Nick_A » Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:46 am

V A
What I am trying to push is, where possible one should strive to adopt the practices of the spirituality of point 6 above, i.e. Philosophical non-theistic religion & spirituality = 90/100 GoS. Herewith humanity will not just depend on one or two philosophers but will take into account all sources of knowledge from everywhere that are relevant and efficient.
At this level of 90+/100 humans will align spontaneously as Team Human to face all problems of global and galatical scale threatening humanity in the future.
Answer me one question. Why would people want to adopt the practices you allude to? What is the incentive to do so? Since one of the primary motives for human behavior is the need for prestige, why adopt practices which interfere with the struggle for prestige. I just don't see any reason why humanity as a whole would be attracted to the humanism substituting itself for revelation you've described.

Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 1793
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: Perspective

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Sat Jan 12, 2019 6:02 am

Nick_A wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:46 am
V A
What I am trying to push is, where possible one should strive to adopt the practices of the spirituality of point 6 above, i.e. Philosophical non-theistic religion & spirituality = 90/100 GoS. Herewith humanity will not just depend on one or two philosophers but will take into account all sources of knowledge from everywhere that are relevant and efficient.
At this level of 90+/100 humans will align spontaneously as Team Human to face all problems of global and galatical scale threatening humanity in the future.
Answer me one question. Why would people want to adopt the practices you allude to? What is the incentive to do so? Since one of the primary motives for human behavior is the need for prestige, why adopt practices which interfere with the struggle for prestige. I just don't see any reason why humanity as a whole would be attracted to the humanism substituting itself for revelation you've described.
The incentive for my proposals in point 6 above is to promote 'flow' in general, thus contribute to progress to every aspect of life and in this case towards the highest level of one's spirituality potential for each individual.

Note the empirical positive results [not revelation] in the following;

Spiritual Enlightenment
Enlightenment is the "full comprehension of a situation"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlightenment_(spiritual)
The English term enlightenment is the western translation of the abstract noun bodhi, the knowledge or wisdom, or awakened intellect, of a Buddha.[2] The verbal root budh- means "to awaken," and its literal meaning is closer to "awakening."
Note the various definition of spiritual enlightenment in the various spirituality and religions.

The Peak Performers and Peak Experiences
A peak experience is a moment accompanied by a euphoric mental state often achieved by self-actualizing individuals.[1] The concept was originally developed by Abraham Maslow in 1964, who describes peak experiences as "rare, exciting, oceanic, deeply moving, exhilarating, elevating experiences that generate an advanced form of perceiving reality, and are even mystic and magical in their effect upon the experimenter."[1]:21[2] There are several unique characteristics of a peak experience, but each element is perceived together in a holistic manner that creates the moment of reaching one's full potential.[3] Peak experiences can range from simple activities to intense events;[4][5] however, it is not necessarily about what the activity is, but the ecstatic, blissful feeling that is being experienced during it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_experience
Flow
In positive psychology, flow, also known colloquially as being in the zone, is the mental state of operation in which a person performing an activity is fully immersed in a feeling of energized focus, full involvement, and enjoyment in the process of the activity. In essence, flow is characterized by complete absorption in what one does, and a resulting loss in one's sense of space and time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_(psychology)
Note there are tons of positives emerging from the above depending on the individual conditions.

What is ultimate within the above is the freedom from the psychological bondage of mortality and the existential crisis that compels theists and others to cling to an illusory God or deity for psychological comfort. Note this is happening at your subconscious and subliminal level which you are not conscious of

In your case, you are still being controlled [in some degree of] by the "zombie parasites" of existential crisis within your subliminal self that compel you to cling to an illusory entity as propounded by Simone's Weil and her likes. Note the length of desperation you go in defending Simone's philosophy as if hers is the ONLY WAY!

Prestige?
Nah .. prestige is the desperate desire of the ego which is a dangerous liability when pursued too desperately and to the extreme.

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