Belief in the Supernatural

For all things philosophical.

Moderators: AMod, iMod

Post Reply
philosopher
Posts: 299
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:37 pm

Belief in the Supernatural

Post by philosopher » Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:48 pm

Religion says that if you just believe in a certain deity, everything will be just fine and you will have the correct answers to the origin of the universe and life.

However, it is scientifically wrong. We know that the bible is not literally true - we know that from scientific observations, investigations or just pure and simple logic. Just take any of the supernatural texts in the bible, and observe the phenomena in the universe. It turns out negative.

Although there is something science cannot explain, like Dark Energy, Dark Matter or how to unify General Relativity with Quantum Mechanics in a way that proves the Grand Unified Theory of Everything right, despite the fact that science cannot explain everything, it is still the best description of the world and our surroundings and the entire universe for that matter, we have. It is far better than any religious theology, or any other belief in the supernatural.

It simply is, because belief in any supernatural cause/effect is without any foundation in logic. They are simply statements, that you can prove either wrong or statements of which we have no reason to believe they should be true - simply because we cannot observe them. Ie. "God as a white-bearded old man who is infinitely good exists" can either be proven wrong or we have no reason to believe such a deity exists, simply because we have observed none of those features anywhere in the universe.

Religious fanatics might claim that science hasn't got all the answers, but religion has got even fewer - if any!

So far so good.

However, I will also argue that the belief in the supernatural can be beneficial. That you've got no other choice than to believe in an infintely good deity, unless you want to live either a horrible life or just want to be a psychopath yourself.

Let me clarify this supernatural belief by stating what it is not:

* Omnipotent
* Omniscient
* Real (physically, observable)
* The creator of anything

What it is, however, is more interesting:

* A psychological projection of ideas of infinte goodness unto a personalization in the minds of the individual in question. Like an invisible friend, which anyone who agress with it, can share.

* An idea which - if applied correctly with enough followers/believers - can create a paradise on Earth where nobody undergo unneccessary suffering, and everyone gets as maxmized happiness as possible.

* Relieve physical or psychological distress.

You can't live without it. If you do, you will experience hell in your own life. If society tries to live without it, it will create hell in the entire world.

That is enough for me to decide what to believe in.

User avatar
Eodnhoj7
Posts: 3187
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:18 am

Re: Belief in the Supernatural

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:39 pm

philosopher wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:48 pm
Religion says that if you just believe in a certain deity, everything will be just fine and you will have the correct answers to the origin of the universe and life.

However, it is scientifically wrong. We know that the bible is not literally true - we know that from scientific observations, investigations or just pure and simple logic. Just take any of the supernatural texts in the bible, and observe the phenomena in the universe. It turns out negative.

Although there is something science cannot explain, like Dark Energy, Dark Matter or how to unify General Relativity with Quantum Mechanics in a way that proves the Grand Unified Theory of Everything right, despite the fact that science cannot explain everything, it is still the best description of the world and our surroundings and the entire universe for that matter, we have. It is far better than any religious theology, or any other belief in the supernatural.

It simply is, because belief in any supernatural cause/effect is without any foundation in logic. They are simply statements, that you can prove either wrong or statements of which we have no reason to believe they should be true - simply because we cannot observe them. Ie. "God as a white-bearded old man who is infinitely good exists" can either be proven wrong or we have no reason to believe such a deity exists, simply because we have observed none of those features anywhere in the universe.

Religious fanatics might claim that science hasn't got all the answers, but religion has got even fewer - if any!

So far so good.

However, I will also argue that the belief in the supernatural can be beneficial. That you've got no other choice than to believe in an infintely good deity, unless you want to live either a horrible life or just want to be a psychopath yourself.

Let me clarify this supernatural belief by stating what it is not:

* Omnipotent
* Omniscient
* Real (physically, observable)
* The creator of anything

What it is, however, is more interesting:

* A psychological projection of ideas of infinte goodness unto a personalization in the minds of the individual in question. Like an invisible friend, which anyone who agress with it, can share.

* An idea which - if applied correctly with enough followers/believers - can create a paradise on Earth where nobody undergo unneccessary suffering, and everyone gets as maxmized happiness as possible.

* Relieve physical or psychological distress.

You can't live without it. If you do, you will experience hell in your own life. If society tries to live without it, it will create hell in the entire world.

That is enough for me to decide what to believe in.
Modern Religion says everything will be fine. Traditional religion says you are going to suffer, that is the nature of this world.

User avatar
Harbal
Posts: 3944
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:03 pm
Location: Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: Belief in the Supernatural

Post by Harbal » Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:06 pm

philosopher wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:48 pm
What it is, however, is more interesting:
Whatever it is, it's probably more interesting than your post.

philosopher
Posts: 299
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:37 pm

Re: Belief in the Supernatural

Post by philosopher » Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:49 pm

Harbal wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:06 pm
philosopher wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:48 pm
What it is, however, is more interesting:
Whatever it is, it's probably more interesting than your post.
Why/How? Care to explain your opinion or are you just going to spew out some nonsense bullshit?

User avatar
Harbal
Posts: 3944
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:03 pm
Location: Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: Belief in the Supernatural

Post by Harbal » Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:56 pm

philosopher wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:49 pm
Harbal wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:06 pm

Whatever it is, it's probably more interesting than your post.
Why/How? Care to explain your opinion or are you just going to spew out some nonsense bullshit?
Only kidding. I didn't read your post so I don't even know how boring it is. :D

philosopher
Posts: 299
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:37 pm

Re: Belief in the Supernatural

Post by philosopher » Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:58 pm

Harbal wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:56 pm
philosopher wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:49 pm
Harbal wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:06 pm

Whatever it is, it's probably more interesting than your post.
Why/How? Care to explain your opinion or are you just going to spew out some nonsense bullshit?
Only kidding. I didn't read your post so I don't even know how boring it is. :D
In other words, you're just writing bullshit. You are not a contributing member of this forum.
You're a troll.

Go away, please.

User avatar
Harbal
Posts: 3944
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:03 pm
Location: Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: Belief in the Supernatural

Post by Harbal » Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:08 pm

philosopher wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:58 pm

In other words, you're just writing bullshit.
I suppose so.
You are not a contributing member of this forum.
Well it's not like anyone else was taking any notice of you.
You're a troll.
I'd like to think there's a bit more to me than that.
Go away, please.
Okay, bye for now.

User avatar
bahman
Posts: 1925
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:52 pm

Re: Belief in the Supernatural

Post by bahman » Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:10 pm

philosopher wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:48 pm
Religion says that if you just believe in a certain deity, everything will be just fine and you will have the correct answers to the origin of the universe and life.
What is your suggestion? What is the origin of life?
philosopher wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:48 pm
However, it is scientifically wrong. We know that the bible is not literally true - we know that from scientific observations, investigations or just pure and simple logic. Just take any of the supernatural texts in the bible, and observe the phenomena in the universe. It turns out negative.
They say that Bible is not a scientific book. It is not literal. What would say?
philosopher wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:48 pm
Although there is something science cannot explain, like Dark Energy, Dark Matter or how to unify General Relativity with Quantum Mechanics in a way that proves the Grand Unified Theory of Everything right, despite the fact that science cannot explain everything, it is still the best description of the world and our surroundings and the entire universe for that matter, we have. It is far better than any religious theology, or any other belief in the supernatural.
Science cannot explain what itself is since it cannot answer what consciousness is.
philosopher wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:48 pm
It simply is, because belief in any supernatural cause/effect is without any foundation in logic. They are simply statements, that you can prove either wrong or statements of which we have no reason to believe they should be true - simply because we cannot observe them. Ie. "God as a white-bearded old man who is infinitely good exists" can either be proven wrong or we have no reason to believe such a deity exists, simply because we have observed none of those features anywhere in the universe.
It seems that you haven't had mystical experience. That does not mean that spiritual reality does not exist.
philosopher wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:48 pm
Religious fanatics might claim that science hasn't got all the answers, but religion has got even fewer - if any!
All religions are work of Satan.
philosopher wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:48 pm
So far so good.

However, I will also argue that the belief in the supernatural can be beneficial. That you've got no other choice than to believe in an infintely good deity, unless you want to live either a horrible life or just want to be a psychopath yourself.

Let me clarify this supernatural belief by stating what it is not:

* Omnipotent
* Omniscient
* Real (physically, observable)
* The creator of anything
You need justification for these claims.

Hugh Nose
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Dec 25, 2009 10:28 am

Re: Belief in the Supernatural

Post by Hugh Nose » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:32 am

I am looking at this thread for the first time, so it will take me a bit of time to catch up. At this point I am curious about your statement,
We know that the bible is not literally true - we know that from scientific observations, investigations or just pure and simple logic. Just take any of the supernatural texts in the bible, and observe the phenomena in the universe. It turns out negative.
[the emphasis is mine-- Hugh]

I don't know if I disagree or just don't understand what you are saying.

Consider the following passage [Moses is speaking]
Hear, Israel, the decrees and laws I declare in your hearing today. Learn them and be sure to follow them. 2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us at Horeb.3 It was not with our ancestors[a] that the LORD made this covenant, but with us,with all of us who are alive here today. 4 The LORD spoke to you face to face out of the fire on the mountain. 5 (At that time I stood between the LORD and you to declare to you the word of the LORD, because you were afraid of the fire and did not go up the mountain.) And he said:
6 “I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
Where do I look in the universe to see that this didn't happen, to see that Moses isn't speaking the literal truth, to see that Moses is not offering a direct quote in at the end? Just want to get clear as to what you mean here. I do not mean to suggest that everything in the bible is to be taken as true.

Cheers,

Hugh

philosopher
Posts: 299
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:37 pm

Re: Belief in the Supernatural

Post by philosopher » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:08 pm

bahman wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:10 pm
What is your suggestion? What is the origin of life?
Science do know, that man and apes had a common ancestor and that we have evolved through millions of years.
But I'm not sure about the origins of life. It is still a quest with a lot of unanswered questions.

But religion surely don't know how life came about either.
In-fact, science has a lot of theories or hypothesies, that it can argue for logically and by scientific findings.

Religion has none. Religions final response to anyone questioning them all ends with "its just so, accept it or go to hell!"
They say that Bible is not a scientific book. It is not literal. What would say?
There are a lot of scientific papers around that are... science.
The Bible is NOT one of them. It is a fairy tale at best. Actually, its one of the worst fairy tales ever written. Maybe due to continous editing and transcribing and more editing through its thousands of years of history. Look up Julius Wellhausen or just about any scientific investigation of the bible.
Science cannot explain what itself is since it cannot answer what consciousness is.
Again, there are some theories but we lack the methods to prove them once and for all.
But religion can't answer what consciousness is either.
It seems that you haven't had mystical experience. That does not mean that spiritual reality does not exist.
Mystical experiences can be tricks of the brain. Illusions, hallucinations or other scientifically explainable phenomena.
All religions are work of Satan.
Some religions cause hell on earth.

Dalek Prime
Posts: 4927
Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:48 am
Location: Living in a tree with Polly.

Re: Belief in the Supernatural

Post by Dalek Prime » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:10 am

Harbal wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:08 pm
philosopher wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:58 pm

In other words, you're just writing bullshit.
I suppose so.
You are not a contributing member of this forum.
Well it's not like anyone else was taking any notice of you.
You're a troll.
I'd like to think there's a bit more to me than that.
Go away, please.
Okay, bye for now.
Harbal, you're missed. Come back.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests