That somes it up, and when all that creative energy gets backed up the PC culture will be dealing with an avalanche of unrestrained force against it.Dalek Prime wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:33 pmPC is not civility or about civility. It's about gagging any dissent, and preventing ideas and humour from flourishing.commonsense wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:27 pm Before you bring out your arsenal of arguments about PC ideology, let's consider this thread to be about the future of PC, regardless of whether you embrace it or pine for its demise.
There are customs that were considered to be normal behavior in the past, that are now inappropriate to exhibit. During their times, whites-only restaurants, bathrooms and drinking water were customary in the southern U.S. Also, housing and school segregation were the norm just about anywhere in the States.
"Boys will be boys" was the common slogan of past generations, meaning it was OK for boys to take garner the attention of school teachers, at the expense of girls. It was OK for buys to get into fights with each other or into mischief in general.
Practices of the past have become socially inappropriate, even though they were considered to be acceptable in their day.
Now, Rudolph, the Red Nosed Reindeer, White Christmas and others are examples of what many say are harmless social customs and are needlessly being called out for bullying and racism. Baby, it's Cold Outside is banned from radio playlists in some locales, due to its promotion of misogyny and rape. Really? Things have just gone too far.
In their prime, ostracizing, then banning prejudice and bullying were examples of going too far. No argument is suggested here that these no longer exist. Nonetheless, unsuitable conduct has been dampened, though not eradicated.
My best guess is that actions considered the norm today will be shunned at some point in the future. My prediction is that PC will flourish rather than decline. Civilized nations will trend toward greater civility.
The Futurology of Fuckin' PC
Re: The Futurology of Fuckin' PC
-
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Re: The Futurology of Fuckin' PC
I believe this Fuckin' PC arose out of low self esteem and insecurity driven by the inherent existential crisis.commonsense wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:27 pm Before you bring out your arsenal of arguments about PC ideology, let's consider this thread to be about the future of PC, regardless of whether you embrace it or pine for its demise.
This is why it is very common for PC to be demanded from those who are psychologically insecure and lack refine critical and rational thinking, i.e. from
- 1. the emotional regressive left who do not respect reason and critical thinking
2. the insecure and sensitive theists [left and right] whose feelings are easily wounded
3. the coward leaders who are crazy for power bending over for 1 and/or 2 above.
4. other emotional cowards
Re: The Futurology of Fuckin' PC
For once I would have to agree with you.Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:48 amI believe this Fuckin' PC arose out of low self esteem and insecurity driven by the inherent existential crisis.commonsense wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:27 pm Before you bring out your arsenal of arguments about PC ideology, let's consider this thread to be about the future of PC, regardless of whether you embrace it or pine for its demise.
This is why it is very common for PC to be demanded from those who are psychologically insecure and lack refine critical and rational thinking, i.e. from
Since the basis of PC is the existential crisis and fundamentally driven by the brain, there is a need to rewire the brain [via fool proofs methods] for a less PC environment.
- 1. the emotional regressive left who do not respect reason and critical thinking
2. the insecure and sensitive theists [left and right] whose feelings are easily wounded
3. the coward leaders who are crazy for power bending over for 1 and/or 2 above.
4. other emotional cowards
All people feel a sense of guilt by nature. Guilt is a sense of worthlessness due to a lack of bonding. In light of a culture where there is no moral wrong, people take this guilt they feel subjectively and project it on others.
PC is a protective zeitgeist in one respect while a witch hunt in another where perceived faults are projected onto another and deemed worthy of elimination. In prior group perspectives people where held accountable for there own actions and required to work them out through self discipline, spiritual training, etc.
Today people are trained they can do no wrong, so any perceived cognitive dissonance is projected on towards others in order to fit in with the moral norm.
Add the fact if people claim they committed a wrong, no compassion will be shown and it will be "rubbed in the individual's face" as a sign or weakness...hence an aura of fear and despair is instilled at the subconscious level.
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- Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am
Re: The Futurology of Fuckin' PC
It is natural for humans to have similar and different views.Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:28 amFor once I would have to agree with you.Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:48 amI believe this Fuckin' PC arose out of low self esteem and insecurity driven by the inherent existential crisis.commonsense wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:27 pm Before you bring out your arsenal of arguments about PC ideology, let's consider this thread to be about the future of PC, regardless of whether you embrace it or pine for its demise.
This is why it is very common for PC to be demanded from those who are psychologically insecure and lack refine critical and rational thinking, i.e. from
Since the basis of PC is the existential crisis and fundamentally driven by the brain, there is a need to rewire the brain [via fool proofs methods] for a less PC environment.
- 1. the emotional regressive left who do not respect reason and critical thinking
2. the insecure and sensitive theists [left and right] whose feelings are easily wounded
3. the coward leaders who are crazy for power bending over for 1 and/or 2 above.
4. other emotional cowards
All people feel a sense of guilt by nature. Guilt is a sense of worthlessness due to a lack of bonding. In light of a culture where there is no moral wrong, people take this guilt they feel subjectively and project it on others.
PC is a protective zeitgeist in one respect while a witch hunt in another where perceived faults are projected onto another and deemed worthy of elimination. In prior group perspectives people where held accountable for there own actions and required to work them out through self discipline, spiritual training, etc.
Today people are trained they can do no wrong, so any perceived cognitive dissonance is projected on towards others in order to fit in with the moral norm.
Add the fact if people claim they committed a wrong, no compassion will be shown and it will be "rubbed in the individual's face" as a sign or weakness...hence an aura of fear and despair is instilled at the subconscious level.
I posted on the principles of Defense Mechanism somewhere.PC is a protective zeitgeist in one respect while a witch hunt in another where perceived faults are projected onto another and deemed worthy of elimination.
My issue is the fuckin' PC and defense mechanisms from the Islam-apologists and the leftist-bastards are who hell bent on destroying free speech due to their low self-esteem, insecurites and paranoia.A defence mechanism is an unconscious psychological mechanism that reduces anxiety arising from unacceptable or potentially harmful stimuli.
Psychiatrist George Eman Vaillant introduced a four-level classification of defence mechanisms:[21]
Level I – pathological defences (psychotic denial, delusional projection)
Level II – immature defences (fantasy, projection, passive aggression, acting out)
Level III – neurotic defences (intellectualization, reaction formation, dissociation, displacement, repression)
Level IV – mature defences (humour, sublimation, suppression, altruism, anticipation)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_mechanisms
Re: The Futurology of Fuckin' PC
An agreeing with you was nice while it lasted.Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:18 amIt is natural for humans to have similar and different views.Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 13, 2018 5:28 amFor once I would have to agree with you.Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:48 am
I believe this Fuckin' PC arose out of low self esteem and insecurity driven by the inherent existential crisis.
This is why it is very common for PC to be demanded from those who are psychologically insecure and lack refine critical and rational thinking, i.e. from
Since the basis of PC is the existential crisis and fundamentally driven by the brain, there is a need to rewire the brain [via fool proofs methods] for a less PC environment.
- 1. the emotional regressive left who do not respect reason and critical thinking
2. the insecure and sensitive theists [left and right] whose feelings are easily wounded
3. the coward leaders who are crazy for power bending over for 1 and/or 2 above.
4. other emotional cowards
All people feel a sense of guilt by nature. Guilt is a sense of worthlessness due to a lack of bonding. In light of a culture where there is no moral wrong, people take this guilt they feel subjectively and project it on others.
PC is a protective zeitgeist in one respect while a witch hunt in another where perceived faults are projected onto another and deemed worthy of elimination. In prior group perspectives people where held accountable for there own actions and required to work them out through self discipline, spiritual training, etc.
Today people are trained they can do no wrong, so any perceived cognitive dissonance is projected on towards others in order to fit in with the moral norm.
Add the fact if people claim they committed a wrong, no compassion will be shown and it will be "rubbed in the individual's face" as a sign or weakness...hence an aura of fear and despair is instilled at the subconscious level.
I posted on the principles of Defense Mechanism somewhere.PC is a protective zeitgeist in one respect while a witch hunt in another where perceived faults are projected onto another and deemed worthy of elimination.
My issue is the fuckin' PC and defense mechanisms from the Islam-apologists and the leftist-bastards are who hell bent on destroying free speech due to their low self-esteem, insecurites and paranoia.A defence mechanism is an unconscious psychological mechanism that reduces anxiety arising from unacceptable or potentially harmful stimuli.
Psychiatrist George Eman Vaillant introduced a four-level classification of defence mechanisms:[21]
Level I – pathological defences (psychotic denial, delusional projection)
Level II – immature defences (fantasy, projection, passive aggression, acting out)
Level III – neurotic defences (intellectualization, reaction formation, dissociation, displacement, repression)
Level IV – mature defences (humour, sublimation, suppression, altruism, anticipation)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defence_mechanisms
Re: The Futurology of Fuckin' PC
I think it's hard to say whether PC culture will win or lose, I think many people think it's obvious it will lose but it seems to me like we're trending towards complete victory for PC culture. There are clear examples of over-the-top PC ideas like with third-wave feminism and the extreme left and a lot of counter-movement towards those exaggerated examples but all across the West, examples which I may consider extreme PC are being considered basic human decency.
PC is actually more like morally correct and now that people by-and-large are vehemently against real sexism and racism, I think as time goes on things that were considered PC in the past will become basic manners and decency, where people will automatically correct their language in order to be polite.
I think that there's already many examples of PC culture indoctrinating people to the point where it's such a basic principle that a good person will be cautious with their language (as some would call PC) that it's not something one would even think to question. It's accepted for them that a good person won't say things that can potentially offend people.
I think that's definitely going to continue to become more prevalent.
PC is actually more like morally correct and now that people by-and-large are vehemently against real sexism and racism, I think as time goes on things that were considered PC in the past will become basic manners and decency, where people will automatically correct their language in order to be polite.
I think that there's already many examples of PC culture indoctrinating people to the point where it's such a basic principle that a good person will be cautious with their language (as some would call PC) that it's not something one would even think to question. It's accepted for them that a good person won't say things that can potentially offend people.
I think that's definitely going to continue to become more prevalent.
- vegetariantaxidermy
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- Location: Narniabiznus
Re: The Futurology of Fuckin' PC
There is nothing morally superiour about the PC lobby. Your post assumes that they have some sort of moral objectivity that the rest of us are not privy to. I don't need any pink-haired moron telling me how to think or behave. If they were basing their rules on logic and reason then it might perhaps work, but they are so illogical, inconsistent, and hypocritical that I can't see anything positive coming from it. Teaching children good manners and kindness is not the same as making them wear rainbows and telling them that they are 'gender fluid'.Judaka wrote: ↑Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:46 am I think it's hard to say whether PC culture will win or lose, I think many people think it's obvious it will lose but it seems to me like we're trending towards complete victory for PC culture. There are clear examples of over-the-top PC ideas like with third-wave feminism and the extreme left and a lot of counter-movement towards those exaggerated examples but all across the West, examples which I may consider extreme PC are being considered basic human decency.
PC is actually more like morally correct and now that people by-and-large are vehemently against real sexism and racism, I think as time goes on things that were considered PC in the past will become basic manners and decency, where people will automatically correct their language in order to be polite.
I think that there's already many examples of PC culture indoctrinating people to the point where it's such a basic principle that a good person will be cautious with their language (as some would call PC) that it's not something one would even think to question. It's accepted for them that a good person won't say things that can potentially offend people.
I think that's definitely going to continue to become more prevalent.
Umm, are you suggesting that PC is going to miraculously evolve into 'good manners' and empathy? LOL. Good manners have been around for a while now. Empathy even longer. There's nothing particularly nice about the PC. 'Faux-nice' is how I would describe them.
The worst of the PC movement is from the US, yet the US is getting more and more aggressive and its population is as war-loving and military-worshipping as ever. In the obscenely hypocritical US of A you must NEVER utter the words 'coloured' and 'person' consecutively, yet 'persons of colour' ('politically safe') are shot do death and/or savagely beaten every day by American cops. Even children 'of colour' aren't safe.
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Re: The Futurology of Fuckin' PC
Dalek Prime wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:33 pmPC is not civility or about civility. It's about gagging any dissent, and preventing ideas and humour from flourishing.commonsense wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:27 pm Before you bring out your arsenal of arguments about PC ideology, let's consider this thread to be about the future of PC, regardless of whether you embrace it or pine for its demise.
There are customs that were considered to be normal behavior in the past, that are now inappropriate to exhibit. During their times, whites-only restaurants, bathrooms and drinking water were customary in the southern U.S. Also, housing and school segregation were the norm just about anywhere in the States.
"Boys will be boys" was the common slogan of past generations, meaning it was OK for boys to take garner the attention of school teachers, at the expense of girls. It was OK for buys to get into fights with each other or into mischief in general.
Practices of the past have become socially inappropriate, even though they were considered to be acceptable in their day.
Now, Rudolph, the Red Nosed Reindeer, White Christmas and others are examples of what many say are harmless social customs and are needlessly being called out for bullying and racism. Baby, it's Cold Outside is banned from radio playlists in some locales, due to its promotion of misogyny and rape. Really? Things have just gone too far.
In their prime, ostracizing, then banning prejudice and bullying were examples of going too far. No argument is suggested here that these no longer exist. Nonetheless, unsuitable conduct has been dampened, though not eradicated.
My best guess is that actions considered the norm today will be shunned at some point in the future. My prediction is that PC will flourish rather than decline. Civilized nations will trend toward greater civility.
Not even about, among other things, directing people to interact with respect?
- vegetariantaxidermy
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- Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
- Location: Narniabiznus
Re: The Futurology of Fuckin' PC
Haven't you read any of the other comments?commonsense wrote: ↑Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:29 pmDalek Prime wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:33 pmPC is not civility or about civility. It's about gagging any dissent, and preventing ideas and humour from flourishing.commonsense wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:27 pm Before you bring out your arsenal of arguments about PC ideology, let's consider this thread to be about the future of PC, regardless of whether you embrace it or pine for its demise.
There are customs that were considered to be normal behavior in the past, that are now inappropriate to exhibit. During their times, whites-only restaurants, bathrooms and drinking water were customary in the southern U.S. Also, housing and school segregation were the norm just about anywhere in the States.
"Boys will be boys" was the common slogan of past generations, meaning it was OK for boys to take garner the attention of school teachers, at the expense of girls. It was OK for buys to get into fights with each other or into mischief in general.
Practices of the past have become socially inappropriate, even though they were considered to be acceptable in their day.
Now, Rudolph, the Red Nosed Reindeer, White Christmas and others are examples of what many say are harmless social customs and are needlessly being called out for bullying and racism. Baby, it's Cold Outside is banned from radio playlists in some locales, due to its promotion of misogyny and rape. Really? Things have just gone too far.
In their prime, ostracizing, then banning prejudice and bullying were examples of going too far. No argument is suggested here that these no longer exist. Nonetheless, unsuitable conduct has been dampened, though not eradicated.
My best guess is that actions considered the norm today will be shunned at some point in the future. My prediction is that PC will flourish rather than decline. Civilized nations will trend toward greater civility.
Not even about, among other things, directing people to interact with respect?
Re: The Futurology of Fuckin' PC
I'm arguing that PC culture stems from moral positions that are pervasive throughout the West, good manners and ethics change over time and do not remain the same. I'm not arguing that it is a good thing that this is occurring, in fact, I despise PC culture as much as anyone can but I can't ignore its prevalence. PC culture has already evolved into good manners and empathy for a lot of people and is a basic condition for being a decent human being for them. I think there are extreme examples of PC culture that are abhorrent enough that pushback against them may prevail but right now, you can't express many beliefs that I would consider valid or reasonable without the average person thinking you are a racist or sexist.vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Thu Dec 13, 2018 11:36 amThere is nothing morally superiour about the PC lobby. Your post assumes that they have some sort of moral objectivity that the rest of us are not privy to. I don't need any pink-haired moron telling me how to think or behave. If they were basing their rules on logic and reason then it might perhaps work, but they are so illogical, inconsistent, and hypocritical that I can't see anything positive coming from it. Teaching children good manners and kindness is not the same as making them wear rainbows and telling them that they are 'gender fluid'.Judaka wrote: ↑Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:46 am I think it's hard to say whether PC culture will win or lose, I think many people think it's obvious it will lose but it seems to me like we're trending towards complete victory for PC culture. There are clear examples of over-the-top PC ideas like with third-wave feminism and the extreme left and a lot of counter-movement towards those exaggerated examples but all across the West, examples which I may consider extreme PC are being considered basic human decency.
PC is actually more like morally correct and now that people by-and-large are vehemently against real sexism and racism, I think as time goes on things that were considered PC in the past will become basic manners and decency, where people will automatically correct their language in order to be polite.
I think that there's already many examples of PC culture indoctrinating people to the point where it's such a basic principle that a good person will be cautious with their language (as some would call PC) that it's not something one would even think to question. It's accepted for them that a good person won't say things that can potentially offend people.
I think that's definitely going to continue to become more prevalent.
Umm, are you suggesting that PC is going to miraculously evolve into 'good manners' and empathy? LOL. Good manners have been around for a while now. Empathy even longer. There's nothing particularly nice about the PC. 'Faux-nice' is how I would describe them.
The worst of the PC movement is from the US, yet the US is getting more and more aggressive and its population is as war-loving and military-worshipping as ever. In the obscenely hypocritical US of A you must NEVER utter the words 'coloured' and 'person' consecutively, yet 'persons of colour' ('politically safe') are shot do death and/or savagely beaten every day by American cops. Even children 'of colour' aren't safe.
I don't think that the US has fended off PC culture at all and while the democrats are doing a good job of self-destructing, there's certainly some elements of PC culture which seem quite ingrained, particularly in high school/uni students that won't go away easily and will probably instead, expand and develop until we see more aspects of PC culture dictating is considered acceptable speech.
I don't hope for it but it's my expectation.
Re:
true it was about equality - and by that assimilation.vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:09 pm Getting rid of segregation in the US had NOTHING to do with Political Correctness.
a color blind/race blind society.
i support such - now quant and outdated idea.
BTW I have much respect (more respect for the man Malcom X , than the man Martin Luther JR - but affirm the latter's view of inclusion of all into a unified humanity, over the former's separate black nation mentality (but again I really respected Malcolm the man - he was no hypcrite, didnot cheat on wife/etc - unlike Luther jr who did - WRt to their personal lives.
Political correctness is just the flawed Malcom X mentality of separation and pride for being a member of said group, and is counter inclusion of all into the unity of mandkind.
all the same all equal, and so none care of what sex or race they are of.
the old 70's Melting Pot ideal America had - before it was killed off by PC and the new "progressives" who champion division and tribe over unity of humankind.
Re:
yes we call it "Virtue signaling" good for cowards and the egos of.vegetariantaxidermy wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:09 pm . As you can see, there is little to no personal risk in any of these enterprises--this is because they are all fashionable causes, and don't involve getting off one's own arse and doing something constructive and useful
when the going gets rough, they dissapear.
"pozer" is the more old school term, but the same.
Re: The Futurology of Fuckin' PC
agreed.Dalek Prime wrote: ↑Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:33 pmPC is not civility or about civility. It's about gagging any dissent, and preventing ideas and humour from flourishing.commonsense wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:27 pm Before you bring out your arsenal of arguments about PC ideology, let's consider this thread to be about the future of PC, regardless of whether you embrace it or pine for its demise.
There are customs that were considered to be normal behavior in the past, that are now inappropriate to exhibit. During their times, whites-only restaurants, bathrooms and drinking water were customary in the southern U.S. Also, housing and school segregation were the norm just about anywhere in the States.
"Boys will be boys" was the common slogan of past generations, meaning it was OK for boys to take garner the attention of school teachers, at the expense of girls. It was OK for buys to get into fights with each other or into mischief in general.
Practices of the past have become socially inappropriate, even though they were considered to be acceptable in their day.
Now, Rudolph, the Red Nosed Reindeer, White Christmas and others are examples of what many say are harmless social customs and are needlessly being called out for bullying and racism. Baby, it's Cold Outside is banned from radio playlists in some locales, due to its promotion of misogyny and rape. Really? Things have just gone too far.
In their prime, ostracizing, then banning prejudice and bullying were examples of going too far. No argument is suggested here that these no longer exist. Nonetheless, unsuitable conduct has been dampened, though not eradicated.
My best guess is that actions considered the norm today will be shunned at some point in the future. My prediction is that PC will flourish rather than decline. Civilized nations will trend toward greater civility.
Re: The Futurology of Fuckin' PC
MGTOW formation since 7 yrs ago is a reaction to this.Eodnhoj7 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:17 amHere is a simple stance.commonsense wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:27 pm Before you bring out your arsenal of arguments about PC ideology, let's consider this thread to be about the future of PC, regardless of whether you embrace it or pine for its demise.
There are customs that were considered to be normal behavior in the past, that are now inappropriate to exhibit. During their times, whites-only restaurants, bathrooms and drinking water were customary in the southern U.S. Also, housing and school segregation were the norm just about anywhere in the States.
"Boys will be boys" was the common slogan of past generations, meaning it was OK for boys to take garner the attention of school teachers, at the expense of girls. It was OK for buys to get into fights with each other or into mischief in general.
Practices of the past have become socially inappropriate, even though they were considered to be acceptable in their day.
Now, Rudolph, the Red Nosed Reindeer, White Christmas and others are examples of what many say are harmless social customs and are needlessly being called out for bullying and racism. Baby, it's Cold Outside is banned from radio playlists in some locales, due to its promotion of misogyny and rape. Really? Things have just gone too far.
In their prime, ostracizing, then banning prejudice and bullying were examples of going too far. No argument is suggested here that these no longer exist. Nonetheless, unsuitable conduct has been dampened, though not eradicated.
My best guess is that actions considered the norm today will be shunned at some point in the future. My prediction is that PC will flourish rather than decline. Civilized nations will trend toward greater civility.
1. One extreme alternates to another.
2. The one extreme right now is a promotion of women over men.
3. It will cycle back when women shoot themselves in the foot. No man will marry for sleep with them because of legal repercussion, and the ones that will sleep with them they will quickly become dissatisfied with.
and why I avoid white american women myself - I'm white, but look toward Black American women (more traditional than white american females), or outwrite foreign women to get involved with personally as a white male american.
known all too many since 2000 or so male ameicans (friends) taken to the cleaners via female while entitled gals - their husbands destroyed/taken for all ----for me to be the same sucker.
Re: The Futurology of Fuckin' PC
psychobabble bullshit.Veritas Aequitas wrote: ↑Thu Dec 13, 2018 4:48 amI believe this Fuckin' PC arose out of low self esteem and insecurity driven by the inherent existential crisis.commonsense wrote: ↑Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:27 pm Before you bring out your arsenal of arguments about PC ideology, let's consider this thread to be about the future of PC, regardless of whether you embrace it or pine for its demise.
This is why it is very common for PC to be demanded from those who are psychologically insecure and lack refine critical and rational thinking, i.e. from
Since the basis of PC is the existential crisis and fundamentally driven by the brain, there is a need to rewire the brain [via fool proofs methods] for a less PC environment.
- 1. the emotional regressive left who do not respect reason and critical thinking
2. the insecure and sensitive theists [left and right] whose feelings are easily wounded
3. the coward leaders who are crazy for power bending over for 1 and/or 2 above.
4. other emotional cowards
the only reason there is "PC" - is due to college campuses.gov grants to profs-teachers of "African/women/etc studies"............the grants allowed the feedback cycle to relivence, if you survive the 1st 20 yrs of drought, then you can indoctrine the next generation to contunue the endowments infinitum.
PC lived past the drought of mid 80's to 00's - and is now fully accepted as legit - via the indoctrinated and endowded endowments.
all hale for the weak minded and provda.