Theists Leaped into La La Land

[Veritas Aequitas]

My heavens, attofishpi. You still paying attention to that nutcase?

Because his thread spamming is pissing me off, hopefully when he realises he is an idiot in all his own threads, he might stop.

I had presented my threads in a very rational way.
Show me with rational arguments why my thesis are irrational, then I will stop.

You are agitated because I had argued theism is psychological but unfortunately even sensing the truths hurt.

[Reflex]

Who is actually the stupid one?

Well, you’re either stupid or psychotic.

[Veritas Aequitas]

Who is actually the stupid one?

Well, you’re either stupid or psychotic.

The post was not addressed to you.
I note you are very worked up emotionally, else you would not be such a busybody.
I understand psychology is involved in this case as related to your theism.

[Reflex]

The post was not addressed to you.
I note you are very worked up emotionally, else you would not be such a busybody.
I understand psychology is involved in this case as related to your theism.

Psychotic it is!

[attofishpi]

NOTE:- I've gone to the trouble of restating ALL the points of yours that I had addressed that you craftily omitted, and I've included the new post from you also, please address answers to your own points in future, otherwise the debate is flawed.

Note I mentioned "if" above, so it is hypothetical.
So why do you think it is more favorable [if any] being a panentheist than not being one, i.e. as a non-theist.

Doesn't 'Non-theist'=atheist?
There is nothing more 'favourable' about being a panentheist, as I have already said, I found it the best glove that fits.

Note non-theists exist, so why is that you do not agree or be like them?

You really are asking me the impossible to answer...again, I know God exists.

I think English is probably your second language, so I apologise if I am not understanding your line of questioning.

I've got to get back to my painting, so will have to go.

Maybe it is more difficult for a panentheist to differentiate between believing God exists and not believing God exists.
However, I believe a theist like a Christian will be able to provide me an answer easily.

Answering a question is easy, it's whether the one asking the question has the intelligence to understand the answer, and without bias.

A theistic Christian will definitely refuse to be a non-theist [atheist] because to them non-theists [atheists] are followers of Satan, lack moral commandments, will definitely go to and be burnt in Hell and laden with all sort of evil potentials.

Are you truly that stupid that theists believe atheists follow satan? Rhetorical question, you truly are.
Stop with your preconceived ill considered ideas floating around what surely is an empty space between your ears.

Who is actually the stupid one?
I did state ALL theists.
If you choose not to agree with the NT, that is your personal beliefs.
By default, it is stated in the New Testaments of the Christianity, non-believers will go to Hell, influence by Satan. It is very common for theists to accuse atheists for lack of moral fundamentals and other negative/derogatory behaviors.

Please find me a quote from the four main Gospels:- Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and Revelations, where it is stated that NOT believing in God or even Christ will result in a non-believer burning in Hell.

My counter is, the above that the non-theist is satanic and loaded with negatives is not true.

Your 'counter' is irrelevant, because your statement was ridiculous.

The reasons why a theist [Christian or Muslims] will not give up theism is because they are clinging to God as their psychological crutch. Giving up theism will make them very psychologically uneasy, flooded with existential anxieties, fear of ending up in Hell, no salvation, etc.

Years ago I read an article that stated that about 20% of theists believe there is a hell, and not much more believed there is a heaven.
You think theists cling to their faith because of hell, and that's your psychological angle on the whole affair! You must be joking. Billions of paranoid people according to you!

As for a panentheist, their clinging to a belief i.e.g God exists, is also due to the need for a psychological crutch but in a much lesser degree than theists like Christians, or Muslims.
Panentheists will feel uneasy if they were to give up the belief, God exists.

I'm a Christian and a Panentheist, i'm just unique in that I don't believe, I know.

The idea of 'God exists' for the panentheist is basically a thought only since there is no threat of being burnt in HELL. So why it is so difficult for a panentheist to give up in believing a God exists?

Belief in God does not mean you believe in HELL. It also doesn't mean that they believe atheists go to hell. Do you live in USA or have been watching a lot of their idiot pastor evengelicalists blabbing their short sighted bullshit?

The reason is the need for psychological security and comfort from an inherent existential crisis in a subliminal level.
This clinging to God exists is actually a burden and can be a liability in certain circumstances.
I have been through this as a pantheist thus expressing my views from my past experiences.
Do you dispute this?

No, I don't dispute that you have been paranoid about burning in hell.

Note in the case of Buddhism-proper where Buddhism in dealing with that inherent existential crisis, give up the idea of 'God exists' totally so there is no dependent on and the need to defend that burdensome idea. Buddhism relied on the non-theistic Middle-Path to deal with the inherent existential crisis.

Oh, so happy for the buddists, but I feel you still carry your paranoia of burning in hell since becoming atheist.
Perhaps that is the true reason you are thread spamming your ridiculous outdated views of God, in the hope that the rationale of some theist, of a lesser intelligence than yourself, might still permit you to believe that there is no God.
Trust me, YOU ARE GOING TO BURN IN HELL.

[Veritas Aequitas]

NOTE:- I've gone to the trouble of restating ALL the points of yours that I had addressed that you craftily omitted, and I've included the new post from you also, please address answers to your own points in future, otherwise the debate is flawed.

Doesn't 'Non-theist'=atheist?
There is nothing more 'favourable' about being a panentheist, as I have already said, I found it the best glove that fits.


You really are asking me the impossible to answer...again, I know God exists.

I think English is probably your second language, so I apologise if I am not understanding your line of questioning.

I've got to get back to my painting, so will have to go.

Maybe it is more difficult for a panentheist to differentiate between believing God exists and not believing God exists.
However, I believe a theist like a Christian will be able to provide me an answer easily.

Answering a question is easy, it's whether the one asking the question has the intelligence to understand the answer, and without bias.

Are you truly that stupid that theists believe atheists follow satan? Rhetorical question, you truly are.
Stop with your preconceived ill considered ideas floating around what surely is an empty space between your ears.

Who is actually the stupid one?
I did state ALL theists.
If you choose not to agree with the NT, that is your personal beliefs.
By default, it is stated in the New Testaments of the Christianity, non-believers will go to Hell, influence by Satan. It is very common for theists to accuse atheists for lack of moral fundamentals and other negative/derogatory behaviors.

Please find me a quote from the four main Gospels:- Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and Revelations, where it is stated that NOT believing in God or even Christ will result in a non-believer burning in Hell.

My counter is, the above that the non-theist is satanic and loaded with negatives is not true.

Your 'counter' is irrelevant, because your statement was ridiculous.

The reasons why a theist [Christian or Muslims] will not give up theism is because they are clinging to God as their psychological crutch. Giving up theism will make them very psychologically uneasy, flooded with existential anxieties, fear of ending up in Hell, no salvation, etc.

Years ago I read an article that stated that about 20% of theists believe there is a hell, and not much more believed there is a heaven.
You think theists cling to their faith because of hell, and that's your psychological angle on the whole affair! You must be joking. Billions of paranoid people according to you!

As for a panentheist, their clinging to a belief i.e.g God exists, is also due to the need for a psychological crutch but in a much lesser degree than theists like Christians, or Muslims.
Panentheists will feel uneasy if they were to give up the belief, God exists.

I'm a Christian and a Panentheist, i'm just unique in that I don't believe, I know.

The idea of 'God exists' for the panentheist is basically a thought only since there is no threat of being burnt in HELL. So why it is so difficult for a panentheist to give up in believing a God exists?

Belief in God does not mean you believe in HELL. It also doesn't mean that they believe atheists go to hell. Do you live in USA or have been watching a lot of their idiot pastor evengelicalists blabbing their short sighted bullshit?

The reason is the need for psychological security and comfort from an inherent existential crisis in a subliminal level.
This clinging to God exists is actually a burden and can be a liability in certain circumstances.
I have been through this as a pantheist thus expressing my views from my past experiences.
Do you dispute this?

No, I don't dispute that you have been paranoid about burning in hell.

Note in the case of Buddhism-proper where Buddhism in dealing with that inherent existential crisis, give up the idea of 'God exists' totally so there is no dependent on and the need to defend that burdensome idea. Buddhism relied on the non-theistic Middle-Path to deal with the inherent existential crisis.

Oh, so happy for the buddists, but I feel you still carry your paranoia of burning in hell since becoming atheist.
Perhaps that is the true reason you are thread spamming your ridiculous outdated views of God, in the hope that the rationale of some theist, of a lesser intelligence than yourself, might still permit you to believe that there is no God.
Trust me, YOU ARE GOING TO BURN IN HELL.

I noted you are getting emotional and not interested in a serious rational discussion thus I had refrained to answer all the points you raised except the one I posted.

Note;

https://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/tbhell.html
Do we find the doctrine of endless punishment revealed in the use of the word Hell?
Let the facts answer.
There are three words translated "Hell" in the New Testament, Hades and Tartarus, which are Greek, and Gehenna, which is the Greek form of the Hebrew words Gee and Hinnom, meaning "the valley of Hinnom."

Refer to the above article to see the full details.
Note the fact is there are many Christians [from my experience of hearing and reading them] who believe in the idea of Hell.

How do you expect to discuss rationally and intellectual with your response like the below?

The reason is the need for psychological security and comfort from an inherent existential crisis in a subliminal level.
This clinging to God exists is actually a burden and can be a liability in certain circumstances.
I have been through this as a pantheist thus expressing my views from my past experiences.
Do you dispute this?

No, I don't dispute that you have been paranoid about burning in hell.

If you want to continue, provide more rational and intellectual arguments, else it is no go for me.

Btw, whatever the response, one of the reason I post is a form of exercise, i.e. practicing and keeping ideas fresh in my mind for a book in the future. It is not important whether people respond or not, after all there are not many active members here.

[attofishpi]

If you choose not to agree with the NT, that is your personal beliefs.
By default, it is stated in the New Testaments of the Christianity, non-believers will go to Hell, influence by Satan. It is very common for theists to accuse atheists for lack of moral fundamentals and other negative/derogatory behaviors.

You are the one stating that in the NT (New Testament), that it states non-believers will go to Hell.
I will ask again, please find me a quote from the four main Gospels:- Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and Revelations, where it is stated that NOT believing in God or even Christ will result in a non-believer burning in Hell.

[Veritas Aequitas]

If you choose not to agree with the NT, that is your personal beliefs.
By default, it is stated in the New Testaments of the Christianity, non-believers will go to Hell, influence by Satan. It is very common for theists to accuse atheists for lack of moral fundamentals and other negative/derogatory behaviors.

You are the one stating that in the NT (New Testament), that it states non-believers will go to Hell.
I will ask again, please find me a quote from the four main Gospels:- Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and Revelations, where it is stated that NOT believing in God or even Christ will result in a non-believer burning in Hell.

I did not state 'Gospel'.
I stated New Testaments imply all the non-OT books in the Bible.

Point is you did not read the link I provided, note therein

Do we find the doctrine of endless punishment revealed in the use of the word Hell?
Let the facts answer.
There are three words translated "Hell" in the New Testament, Hades and Tartarus, which are Greek, and Gehenna, which is the Greek form of the Hebrew words Gee and Hinnom, meaning "the valley of Hinnom."

https://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/tbhell.html

In that link, the following;

"And I looked, and behold a pale horse; and his name that sat on him was death, and hell followed him." ReV vi 8.

There is no necessary connection between death and a place of endless punishment, as all men die, good or bad; but there is a connection between death and the grave, or the state of the dead; and there is a propriety in representing the last as following the first. "And death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them." ReV xx. 13.
This is the reverse of what is usually taught and believed of hell; for the leading idea is that it will not give up those who are in it. Surely the hell the Revelator speaks of is not a place of endless torments. This is further confirmed by the next verse, where it is said, "death and hell were cast into the lake of fire," that is, utterly destroyed. Of course, then, this hell cannot be a place of endless woe, since it is not itself endless.

https://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/tbhell.html

There are many verses quoted in the above article from the NT.

Now what kind of Christian are you?

Btw, the point re Hell is not the main point of the original issue.

[attofishpi]

If you choose not to agree with the NT, that is your personal beliefs.
By default, it is stated in the New Testaments of the Christianity, non-believers will go to Hell, influence by Satan. It is very common for theists to accuse atheists for lack of moral fundamentals and other negative/derogatory behaviors.

You are the one stating that in the NT (New Testament), that it states non-believers will go to Hell.
I will ask again, please find me a quote from the four main Gospels:- Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and Revelations, where it is stated that NOT believing in God or even Christ will result in a non-believer burning in Hell.

I did not state 'Gospel'.
I stated New Testaments imply all the non-OT books in the Bible.

OK, then please find me - Book, Chapter and Verse where it is stated anywhere in the New Testament that NOT believing in God or even Christ will result in a non-believer burning in Hell.

[Veritas Aequitas]

You are the one stating that in the NT (New Testament), that it states non-believers will go to Hell.
I will ask again, please find me a quote from the four main Gospels:- Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and Revelations, where it is stated that NOT believing in God or even Christ will result in a non-believer burning in Hell.

I did not state 'Gospel'.
I stated New Testaments imply all the non-OT books in the Bible.

OK, then please find me - Book, Chapter and Verse where it is stated anywhere in the New Testament that NOT believing in God or even Christ will result in a non-believer burning in Hell.

Generally, as I had stated the majority of Christians believe that non-Christians will go to Hell.
I don't have any direct verse on hand, yet.

However the implication is very clear,

the only way to heaven is through Jesus, "the way and the truth and the life" (John 14:6).

Thus if one do not believe in Jesus, thus is not a CHRISTian, will not go to heaven, thus go to Hell.

Note my original point was,
What are the benefits to you as a panentheist?
If avoiding Hell is not the issue for you, then what is the critical benefit you gain as a panentheist in contrast to being an atheist?

[Veritas Aequitas]

65 Bible Verses [include NT] about
Liars Thieves Adulterers Fornicators Go To Hell
https://www.openbible.info/topics/liars ... go_to_hell

[attofishpi]

65 Bible Verses [include NT] about
Liars Thieves Adulterers Fornicators Go To Hell
https://www.openbible.info/topics/liars ... go_to_hell

You don't do logic very well do you. Theists are also are Liars Thieves Adulterers Fornicators.

Stop posting links and provide, even with just one Book Chapter and Verse, where anywhere in the New Testament it states that non-believers (of God or Christ) will burn in Hell.

[Veritas Aequitas]

65 Bible Verses [include NT] about
Liars Thieves Adulterers Fornicators Go To Hell
https://www.openbible.info/topics/liars ... go_to_hell

You don't do logic very well do you. Theists are also are Liars Thieves Adulterers Fornicators.

Stop posting links and provide, even with just one Book Chapter and Verse, where anywhere in the New Testament it states that non-believers (of God or Christ) will burn in Hell.

As I had stated this point is not the critical point to the original question I asked.

In any case;

• Revelation 21:8 King James Bible
  But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

You dispute the above?

What about my original question?
What are the benefits to you as a panentheist?
If avoiding Hell is not the issue for you, then what is the critical benefit you gain as a panentheist in contrast to being an atheist?

[attofishpi]

65 Bible Verses [include NT] about
Liars Thieves Adulterers Fornicators Go To Hell
https://www.openbible.info/topics/liars ... go_to_hell

You don't do logic very well do you. Theists are also are Liars Thieves Adulterers Fornicators.

Stop posting links and provide, even with just one Book Chapter and Verse, where anywhere in the New Testament it states that non-believers (of God or Christ) will burn in Hell.

As I had stated this point is not the critical point to the original question I asked.

The critical point you raised is, quoting you:- By default, it is stated in the New Testaments of the Christianity, non-believers will go to Hell, influence by Satan.

And note Testament(s) - plural, like it's all through the New Testament that non-believers will go to Hell.

In any case;

• Revelation 21:8 King James Bible
  But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

You dispute the above?

Yes, for one thing, there is no mention of Hell!

Secondly, English standard edition has it as:-
8. But for the cowardly, unbelieving, sinners, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their part is in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."

Which means, those that are sinners, abominable, murderers etc...that are ALSO unbelieving...

Simply put, an atheist that has never 'sinned', is not being addressed here, so your statement that non-believers will go to Hell as portrayed in the New Testament is still incorrect.

What about my original question?
What are the benefits to you as a panentheist?
If avoiding Hell is not the issue for you, then what is the critical benefit you gain as a panentheist in contrast to being an atheist?

I've answered this question at least three times already. Again, I KNOW from 21yrs of EXPERIENCE that God exists. So how the hell can I become an atheist.
There is NO benefit to me being a Panentheist, it just happens to be the closest philosophical form of theism to the nature of God that I have experienced. (I said to you, its the best glove that fits - I guess you are not familiar with that saying).

[Veritas Aequitas]

You don't do logic very well do you. Theists are also are Liars Thieves Adulterers Fornicators.

Stop posting links and provide, even with just one Book Chapter and Verse, where anywhere in the New Testament it states that non-believers (of God or Christ) will burn in Hell.

As I had stated this point is not the critical point to the original question I asked.

The critical point you raised is, quoting you:- By default, it is stated in the New Testaments of the Christianity, non-believers will go to Hell, influence by Satan.

And note Testament(s) - plural, like it's all through the New Testament that non-believers will go to Hell.

In any case;

• Revelation 21:8 King James Bible
  But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

You dispute the above?

Yes, for one thing, there is no mention of Hell!

Secondly, English standard edition has it as:-
8. But for the cowardly, unbelieving, sinners, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their part is in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."

Which means, those that are sinners, abominable, murderers etc...that are ALSO unbelieving...

Simply put, an atheist that has never 'sinned', is not being addressed here, so your statement that non-believers will go to Hell as portrayed in the New Testament is still incorrect.

You are shifty here.
In 21:8 the unbelieving obvious refer to atheists.

What about my original question?
What are the benefits to you as a panentheist?
If avoiding Hell is not the issue for you, then what is the critical benefit you gain as a panentheist in contrast to being an atheist?

I've answered this question at least three times already. Again, I KNOW from 21yrs of EXPERIENCE that God exists. So how the hell can I become an atheist.
There is NO benefit to me being a Panentheist, it just happens to be the closest philosophical form of theism to the nature of God that I have experienced. (I said to you, its the best glove that fits - I guess you are not familiar with that saying).

It is because you have never made the comparison between panentheism and atheism, thus you are unable to answer.

But supposed, you are given a really hard choice of having to choose between panenthism and atheism, which will you choose and why?

Actually there are implied benefits re 'its the best glove that fits.'
You may not be aware, the glove that fits provided you some sort of existential security and comfort.
The test is, can you just give up believing God exists after all you got nothing thing to lose, i.e. no hell to be feared nor concerned with. If not permanently say for one year?
Point is if you have to give up believing in God it will trigger some serious psychological reactions in you.

This is the clue why the basis of the idea of God is psychological as driven by an existential crisis and not that there is a real God out there awaiting to be believed.