Jordan Peterson: Atheists Are Murderers

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 4442
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Jordan Peterson: Atheists Are Murderers

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Here is a video from 'Rationality Rules' who debunked

Atheists Are Murderers - Debunked (Jordan Peterson)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmrpiCsuv6w

JP thinks atheists are murderers because they do not have any God to tell not to murder.
That is very shallow and narrow thinking.

Here is one comment I agree with:
  • Here's the issue with JP - despite his massive knowledge and IQ, he's absolutely obsessed with stories, archetypes and narratives, and how they allegedly shape how we think and behave.
    He's drive ideologically and seeks to prove at all costs that somehow we're all christians and christianity is behind every single psychological and social phenomenon. It's still baffling to me that such an accomplished intellectual can have such clouded vision.
Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 4442
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: Jordan Peterson: Atheists Are Murderers

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Another comment in that Youtube I agrees with;
  • sayvar44
    4 months ago

    Wow such a tiresome argument again from Jordan, we only need to look at cultures that have existed throughout history that do not have a creator God or an afterlife in their societal belief structure.

    As an Australian I am well versed in the culture and beliefs of this countries Indigenous peoples, in Indigenous cultures all across Australia as well as some from other parts of the world there is no creator God and no afterlife where our morality dictates where our souls will go.
    The culture is a basic animalistic and naturalistic one where creation occurred via the animals of the land and depending on which tribe considered which animal as sacred, the serpent rainbow being a particularly popular explanation for natural creation.

    The point is Indigenous Australian culture is one of the oldest and most isolated on earth yet without a creator God or strict scriptures to follow these people lived in harmony with each other and the land for thousands of years until white settlers arrived and forced christianity upon them.
    They were noted for their lack of aggression, violence and their ability to understand the importance of nature and man's place within it, if anything christianity and western culture has made the Indigenous people more prone to violence and aggression than before.

    Many tribes had their own beliefs and tribal laws that differed from region to region but all considered murder and rape abhorrent but not because of any scripture or set text or fear of God.
    For this facetious and disingenuous argument to hold any water countries like China where religion is sparsely practised would have far higher rates of murder than similarly advanced religious countries but they don't.

    It's clear that the lack of desire to murder and be generally anti social is something that is genetically not present in most people, the same way dogs today are descendants of dogs that showed loyalty, affection and less inclination towards aggressive behaviour.

    Negative and selfish behaviour are not good traits for any intelligent social animal to have and those that have them are less likely to procreate and damage the group.

    There is no way a highly trained psychologist like Jordan doesn't know these facts which lends credibility to the assertion that he is a fraud who profits off controversy and false narrative.
Reflex
Posts: 951
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:09 pm

Re: Jordan Peterson: Atheists Are Murderers

Post by Reflex »

You’re a liar, VA. That’s not what JP said at all. There's a big difference between saying atheists are murderers and they have no metaphysical reason not to murder.
Abhinav Kumar
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2018 3:48 pm

Re: Jordan Peterson: Atheists Are Murderers

Post by Abhinav Kumar »

Reflex wrote: Sun Nov 25, 2018 8:18 am You’re a liar, VA. That’s not what JP said at all. There's a big difference between saying atheists are murderers and they have no metaphysical reason not to murder.
What 'metaphysical reason'? Isn't it a enough reason that we can't live in a society where any one is free to kill someone for no reason? I won't murder someone because I don't want to be murdered.

The basic thinking is, how would I feel if someone tortures me or kill my family members? In the same way, I too don't have any moral right to do any harm to anyone, as much as possible.We all deserve love, respect and fair treatment. And it isn't idealistic, rather it's something over which almost all sane and sensible person would agree.

Does Peterson really mean that if only you believe in some 'god', you won't murder someone? That's ridiculous. Isn't there something like 'empathy', 'compassion', 'mutual respect'?
Also it is highly debatable whether belief in God actually stops you to do any wrong. How many of us really care what any God wants us from? We keep on doing things according to our own personalities and characters, which again is a mixture of our nature and nurture.

So, I think instead of peddling weak arguments for existence of god and morality, Prof. Peterson should focus on teaching individuals how to respect others, and how to live without feeling any 'urge' to 'murder' someone.
User avatar
Greta
Posts: 4389
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2015 8:10 am

Re: Jordan Peterson: Atheists Are Murderers

Post by Greta »

What if you don't want to murder? I mean, is there anything even remotely appealing about killing a person or other animal?

Do you really need to have a reason not to murder? Do you guys personally need a reason or metaphysical basis for not murdering??

I can appreciate that some ideologies can be be invaluable to those who are inclined to kill. Those lacking in empathy or a moral compass can thrive with the kind of simple and clear rules provided by religion and other such behavioural codes, certainly.
TimeSeeker
Posts: 2866
Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2018 8:42 am

Re: Jordan Peterson: Atheists Are Murderers

Post by TimeSeeker »

Paraphrasing Penn Jillette - I have murdered, raped and robbed EVERYBODY I have ever wanted to murder, rape and rob!

For a total count of 0!
Last edited by TimeSeeker on Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Walker
Posts: 7265
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re: Jordan Peterson: Atheists Are Murderers

Post by Walker »

Murder is deletion with extreme prejudice, but it’s not the most extreme form of censorship.

The most extreme censorship is erasure of existence via the memory hole.

Dragging down statues (icons) is child's play.

The memory hole will be more in use when all written records have become digitized, and when the world-wide database linking all about a person is brought up to totalitarian specifications.

This will give authorities the tool to erase the birth certificate, the death certificate, and everything in between.

By then, society will be completely cashless.
All currency will be digitized.
Without any digitized records, a person can’t get the credit card numbers required to buy food, or to buy a ride to the country to eat an apple fresh from the tree, and survive.

Officially, those with memories of the erased will be discouraged to express those memories, with punishments. Socially, pack behavior (or herd behavior) will discourage expression of those memories, since they have already been proven adept at murdering ideas.

If any evidence of the erased manages to survive the intellectual pogrom, it will simply be ignored via conditioned double-think, which will explain away any evidence as insufficient proof of existence.
User avatar
Greta
Posts: 4389
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2015 8:10 am

Re: Jordan Peterson: Atheists Are Murderers

Post by Greta »

Er, what happened to the "atheists are murderers" claim?

Why is the conversation now about a few blacks n the US tearing down some remaining symbols of their ancestors' humiliation and subjugation, which was news a year ago and is entirely unrelated to the thread topic?
Walker
Posts: 7265
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re: Jordan Peterson: Atheists Are Murderers

Post by Walker »

Greta wrote: Sun Nov 25, 2018 11:05 pm Er, what happened to the "atheists are murderers" claim?

Why is the conversation now about a few blacks n the US tearing down some remaining symbols of their ancestors' humiliation and subjugation, which was news a year ago and is entirely unrelated to the thread topic?
It went the way of your not wanting to murder ideas or statues claim, maybe swept up into the Dark Matter Hurricane which currently engulfs the earf.
User avatar
Greta
Posts: 4389
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2015 8:10 am

Re: Jordan Peterson: Atheists Are Murderers

Post by Greta »

Do you personally need a moral basis not to commit murder?
Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 4442
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: Jordan Peterson: Atheists Are Murderers

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Reflex wrote: Sun Nov 25, 2018 8:18 am You’re a liar, VA. That’s not what JP said at all. There's a big difference between saying atheists are murderers and they have no metaphysical reason not to murder.
JP did not say 'ALL atheists are murderers' but his point is,
in principle 'atheists are murderers' because they do not have moral commandments to stop them from committing murder.
JP argued it is rational for any atheist to murder rationally.

JP may have other good points in other aspects of life, but in this case his brain is fucked up due to ignorance and controlled by the zombie parasites.

Human beings do not need a theistic overseer to control humans to be moral.

The fact is human being are born with an inherent propensity for morality, e.g.
Morality is not just something that people learn, argues Yale psychologist Paul Bloom: It is something we are all born with. At birth, babies are endowed with compassion, with empathy, with the beginnings of a sense of fairness.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/arti ... of-babies/
The problem is this inherent faculty of morality is evolving albeit very slowly, thus the evidence of evil and violent acts within humanity.
As such the evolution of this inherent faculty of morality need to be expedited.

It is also empirical evident, members of a specie do murder and kill each other but not to the extent of exterminating its species. Embedded within this is the inherent morality [no God involved] to prevent murder among each other.

JP is a cheapskate thinker on this matter.
Walker
Posts: 7265
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:00 am

Re: Jordan Peterson: Atheists Are Murderers

Post by Walker »

Greta wrote: Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:22 am Do you personally need a moral basis not to commit murder?
Could it be that the repetitive, manifested need to discuss concepts rather than individuals also got swept up in the Dark Matter Hurricane, or did the capacity simply atrophy from disuse?

Murder is volitional, born of a choiceless need to destroy.

Life is non-volitional, born of a choiceless need to live.

Volition is the method by which choiceless need, manifests.
Reflex
Posts: 951
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:09 pm

Re: Jordan Peterson: Atheists Are Murderers

Post by Reflex »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:45 am
JP argued it is rational for any atheist to murder rationally.
A bit oversimplified, but yes. JP was saying that not everyone who says they are an atheist have core values that are genuinely atheistic (even if they don't realize it).

Gads. Am I the only one that watched actually listened? I've seen several videos done by the ironically self-named "Rationality Rules." He's kinda like you, VA: he takes things out of context, oversimplifies, and weaves straw man arguments.
Last edited by Reflex on Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
Veritas Aequitas
Posts: 4442
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 4:41 am

Re: Jordan Peterson: Atheists Are Murderers

Post by Veritas Aequitas »

Reflex wrote: Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:51 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:45 am
JP argued it is rational for any atheist to murder rationally.
A bit oversimplified, but yes. JP was saying that not everyone who says they are an atheist have core values that are atheistic (even if they don't realize it).

Gads. Am I the only one that watched actually listened? I've seen several videos done by the ironically self-named "Rationality Rules." He's kinda like you, VA: he takes things out of context, oversimplifies, and weaves straw man arguments.
Don't simply make statements and personal opinions.
The bottom line is sound justifiable evidences and argument.

Note how JP merely rely on Dostoyevsky's book [one view only :shock: ] to spin his views on atheists.
How come he omitted theistic Buddhism which focus on non-violence, compassion and empathy without reference to a God? The other is theistic Jainism where followers cover their mouth just in case they swallow and kill some flying insects.
Reflex
Posts: 951
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:09 pm

Re: Jordan Peterson: Atheists Are Murderers

Post by Reflex »

Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:12 am
Reflex wrote: Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:51 am
Veritas Aequitas wrote: Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:45 am
JP argued it is rational for any atheist to murder rationally.
A bit oversimplified, but yes. JP was saying that not everyone who says they are an atheist have core values that are atheistic (even if they don't realize it).

Gads. Am I the only one that watched actually listened? I've seen several videos done by the ironically self-named "Rationality Rules." He's kinda like you, VA: he takes things out of context, oversimplifies, and weaves straw man arguments.
Don't simply make statements and personal opinions.
The bottom line is sound justifiable evidences and argument.

Note how JP merely rely on Dostoyevsky's book [one view only :shock: ] to spin his views on atheists.
How come he omitted theistic Buddhism which focus on non-violence, compassion and empathy without reference to a God? The other is theistic Jainism where followers cover their mouth just in case they swallow and kill some flying insects.
Your descent into irrationality was swift, even for you. :lol:
Post Reply