Bullshit.
You either believe what you write or you don't. If you do, then you're an honest speaker. If you don't, then you're not.
Bullshit.
What I write is me picturing the exact scenario (you telling me there is a spider) in my mind and simulating how it would play out in practice.creativesoul wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:38 pmBullshit.
You either believe what you write or you don't. If you do, then you're an honest speaker. If you don't, then you're not.
Nah. Now you're into territory where the distinction between thought and belief is appropriate. At the rudimentary level, prior to becoming aware of one's own fallibility, there is no difference between the two... the only one is when one suspends judgment... when one is contemplating but uncertain whether or not they believe what they're contemplating...TimeSeeker wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:39 pmWhat I write is me picturing the exact scenario (you telling me there is a spider) in my mind and simulating how it would play out in practice.creativesoul wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:38 pmBullshit.
You either believe what you write or you don't. If you do, then you're an honest speaker. If you don't, then you're not.
The observations I will make. The hypotheses I will test. The conclusions I will draw.
I am narrating the "movie" that plays out in my head.
Is this what you call "belief" ?
You are still using the word "belief" to make arguments when you are yet to explain it.creativesoul wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:43 pm Nah. Now you're into territory where the distinction between thought and belief is appropriate. At the rudimentary level, prior to becoming aware of one's own fallibility, there is no difference between the two... the only one is when one suspends judgment... when one is contemplating but uncertain whether or not what they believe what they're contemplating...
Not interested in yet another round of misdirection.TimeSeeker wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:44 pmYou are still using the word "belief" to make arguments when you are yet to explain it.creativesoul wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:43 pm Nah. Now you're into territory where the distinction between thought and belief is appropriate. At the rudimentary level, prior to becoming aware of one's own fallibility, there is no difference between the two... the only one is when one suspends judgment... when one is contemplating but uncertain whether or not what they believe what they're contemplating...
I don't understand your argument because I don't understand how you use that word.
Give me a timeline. After the phrase "there is a spider on your shoulder" registers in your mind - what happens next? When does the belief/truth part come in?
No matter how many times you repeat the word "believe" I am not going to understand what you are saying.creativesoul wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:01 pm Not interested in yet another round of misdirection.
You either believe that there is a spider on your shoulder, or you don't, or you're uncertain whether or not there is. If you do, then you believe the statement is true. If you don't then you don't. If you're uncertain, then you are uncertain whether or not the statement is true. It's simple.
You obviously know what the statement means, for you've pictured it. You also know what it would take in order to be true. You may or may not believe it, depending upon whether or not you think/believe that there is a spider on your shoulder.
That's actually what I call thinking about thought/belief.TimeSeeker wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:39 pmWhat I write is me picturing the exact scenario (you telling me there is a spider) in my mind and simulating how it would play out in practice.creativesoul wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:38 pmBullshit.
You either believe what you write or you don't. If you do, then you're an honest speaker. If you don't, then you're not.
The observations I will make. The hypotheses I will test/questions I will ask. The conclusions I will draw.
I am narrating the "movie" that plays out in my head.
Is this what you call "belief" ?
Yes. You have asked a hypothetical. I have put myself in that position and played out the scenario in my head.creativesoul wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:06 pm That's actually what I call thinking about thought/belief.
You believe that everything you've written is true; is the case at hand; is an account of the way things are; corresponds to fact/reality... etc.TimeSeeker wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:08 pmYes. You have asked a hypothetical. I have put myself in that position and played out the scenario in my head.creativesoul wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:06 pm That's actually what I call thinking about thought/belief.
I have pointed out the key steps in the process which I recognise/would be aware of. I need you point out the part you recognise/call "belief".
If any.
Again...You need to describe "belief" with some other words. What happens when you "believe" is it a feeling? A decision? A recognition of an event taking place in your mind? Is it a priori? A posteriori?creativesoul wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:13 pm You believe that everything you've written is true; is the case at hand; is an account of the way things are; corresponds to fact/reality... etc.
I do not know what you mean by any of the words you've used... you'll have to describe every one of them with some other words....TimeSeeker wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:15 pmAgain...You need to describe "belief" with some other words. What happens when you "believe" is it a feeling? A decision? A recognition of an event taking place in your mind? Is it a priori? A posteriori?creativesoul wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:13 pm You believe that everything you've written is true; is the case at hand; is an account of the way things are; corresponds to fact/reality... etc.
No matter how many times you say it - I am hearing the same thing. A word I don't know how to parse.
Everything I've written is as I have imagined it given my knowledge of self.
To ask me is it true?; or Do you believe it? I will simply respond: how do I tell if I do or I don't believe it? How do I tell if it is or isn't true?
OK, but you aren't even making an effort. I've given you like 3 different strategies to try and elucidate it. A timeline. Using other words which I use when I speak about my mind. Words are imprecise tools. Surely you know how to describe something more than one way?creativesoul wrote: ↑Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:37 pm I do not know what you mean by any of the words you've used... you'll have to describe every one of them with some other words....