Buddhism: "Enlightenment" through Sexual Orgies!

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Averroes
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Buddhism: "Enlightenment" through Sexual Orgies!

Post by Averroes » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:59 am

On Sexual Orgies and "Enlightenment" in Buddhism.

In general in Buddhism, having sex is seen as a serious monastic transgression for the ordained Buddhist monks and nuns. According to the Buddhist law for monastic life, the rules command celibacy and prohibit sexual relations for the monks and nuns. However, there are many Buddhist monks who although being on vows of celibacy, nevertheless do engage in sexual orgies in secret as per Siddhartha’s recommendations for attaining “enlightenment.” As Siddhartha said to Ananda:

  • “Ananda, do not conceive of a holy person, someone practicing the Greater Vehicle correctly, as being faulty. Ananda, this is how you should understand it: A person of the vehicle of the auditors, in order to be absolutely peerless in maintaining meditative calm, will seek uninterruptedly to exhaust the outflows. In the same way, Ananda, the Bodhisattva great hero who is skilled in means, who is endowed with the thought of omniscience, will seek uninterruptedly for omniscience, even to the point of abiding among a holy retinue of women and enjoying, playing with, and taking pleasure in it. [The Skill in Means (Upayakausalya) Sutra]

Siddhartha Gotama/Gawtama was the human being who is commonly referred to as the Buddha. Siddhartha was a second class citizen in ancient India before he founded the religion known today as Buddhism. And Ananda was his closest disciple.

The above quoted sutra is practiced secretly by all the schools of Buddhism. Particularly, strictly observant of this practice is the Vajrayana branch of Buddhism, which is the Buddhist school to which the Dalai Lama belongs. There are many books by Buddhist monks and scholars on this.

From a website we can read the following:
But the “Most Honorable” Tsongkhapa, a patriarch of the Gelug lineage of Tibetan "Buddhism," gives this sort of teaching in his book:

The last secret empowerment, which is transmitted to enable the disciple to expound the sutras, means the teacher and the nine female consorts aged from 12 to 20, attain the state all together. The Vajra, possessing the seeds, is put into the mouth of his disciple; in this way, the empowerment is performed. It is the third empowerment, or the former stage, in which the teacher and a female consort receive the wondrous joy together; then, in the latter stage, the teacher attains the state together with the nine female consorts. The wondrous joys arise from them together. …(Tsongkhapa, Extended Treatise on the Progression of the Esoteric Path, translated into Chinese by dharma-master Fazun, Wondrous Favor Publishing Co., 1986, p. 399-400)

The lama teacher, the so-called living “Buddha,” needs to copulate with all nine sexual partners one by one; those sexual partners are called female consorts, aged from 12 to 20. They achieve orgasm of the fourth joy all together and contemplate the Union of Bliss and Emptiness; then, the lama teacher ejaculates semen into the vagina of each female consort and collects all the fluid mixtures. The mixture is called “nectar,” which is given to the disciples during the secret empowerment.
Site: http://www.enlighten.org.tw/trueheart_en/32
The Buddhist ritual of indulging in orgies is a secret practice of the Buddhist monks, and we (outside observers) can corroborate what happens behind their closed doors through the testimonies of the myriad Western women who had been abused by these Buddhist monks. Many Western women have been abused by these so-called “spiritual guides.” I give two testimonies of these women below, and the references to such testimonies can be corroborated by reputed Western media coverage.
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1. Mimi abused by Sogyal Rinpoche

The following link leads to a very informative but also a sad and shocking life story of one of the many young western women named Mimi who was abused by the Vajrayana Buddhist monk Sogyal Rinpoche: https://buddhism-controversy-blog.com/2 ... er-dakini/


Mimi wrote in the article:
Mimi wrote:I was exhausted but I was passing the tests. His demands became more and more excessive, but I didn’t say anything. The rule was that one had to be devoted in order to achieve enlightenment. Most of all, I think the fact that I didn’t have time to reflect gave me emotional relief. I was in mourning, and I thought that these responsibilities were helping me keep my mind on more important things. But in fact I was extinguishing myself.
(…)
The first time we touched sexually, I was cut off from a certain consciousness of myself. He told me to lock the door. There was a whole delegation waiting in the cars. The only ones missing were him and me.

I had been sleeping very little for two months. I had gotten used to being abused by demands and words. We accepted everything. I no longer listened. I did what I had to do, no longer asking any questions. I was running on the adrenaline of constant desperation and fatigue. After the first sexual relations, he made very explicit threats, prohibiting me from talking about it to anyone.

Mimi wrote:
Mimi wrote:And yet, the community consisted of people who were often educated: doctors, magistrates, lawyers, businessmen or pilots … Buddhist masters don’t go looking for Tibetans living in India on three dollars, but rather for white people with money, in the West.

The adults submerged in this environment have to readapt reality in order to survive. They talk of compassion all day long while witnessing public humiliations. They question and repress every form of instinct or feeling. They share a common resentment and anger at living a life of unresolved deceptions. In order to ease this frustration, the master encourages them to eliminate their empathy for their families and immediate friends. And he then fills that void with a different form of compassion, for a state of humanity reduced to a concept: abstract and distant.
Mimi said: "I had gotten used to being abused by demands and words. We accepted everything. I no longer listened. I did what I had to do, no longer asking any questions." This is psychological warfare tactics that was used on Mimi by Buddhist monk Sogyal Rinpoche to break her in order to be able to fornicate with her. At that time Mimi had just lost her grandmother, and thus she was in a weak psychological condition, and Sogyal knew about it. Psychological warfare tactics are very effective against individuals who are emotionally and psychologically vulnerable, for example like existentially depressed individuals.

And there are many other stories like that where Buddhist monks have been following the explicit “teachings” of Siddhartha of how to attain "enlightenment" by fornicating with several young women in secret sexual orgies! As already mentioned and quoted, one such "teaching" of Siddhartha is found in the Buddhist scripture the "skillful in means" (Upayakausalya) sutra, but there are also many other such scriptures.
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2. June Campbel abused by chief Buddhist monk Kalu Rinpoche

Another story is that of a Scottish woman named June Campbell who was abused by another Buddhist lama (priest) named Kalu Rinpoche. She wrote a book about it but there is a very informative article in the Independent here: https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-ente ... 69859.html

In this story again we can witness how a lot of these lazy parasitic Buddhist monks are liars and hypocrite scumbags. Kalu Rinpoche was one of the most revered yogi-lamas in exile outside Tibet. He had supposedly taken vows of celibacy and was celebrated for having spent 14 years in solitary retreat. Among his students were the highest-ranking lamas in Tibet. However, in secrecy he was fornicating with many young women. In the seventies, after June Campbel had become a personal translator to Kalu Rinpoche, he had requested to her that she become her sexual consort and take part in secret sexual activities! And all that while he was on his vows of celibacy.

Excerpts from the Independent:
The Tibetan Buddhists developed the belief that enlightenment could be accelerated by the decision "to enlist the passions in one's religious practice, rather than to avoid them".(...)

Monks of a lower status confined themselves to visualising an imaginary sexual relationship during meditation. But, her book sets out, the "masters" reach a point where they decide that they can engage in sex without being tainted by it. The instructions in the so-called "secret" texts spell out the methods which enable the man to control the flow of semen through yogic breath control and other practices. The idea is to "drive the semen upwards, along the spine, and into the head". The more semen in a man's head, the stronger intellectually and spiritually he is thought to be.
(...)
The combination of religion, sex, power and secrecy can have a potent effect. It creates the Catch 22 of psychological blackmail set out in the words of another lama, Beru Kyhentze Rinpoche: "If your guru acts in a seemingly unenlightened manner and you feel it would be hypocritical to think him a Buddha, you should remember that your own opinions are unreliable and the apparent faults you see may only be a reflection of your own deluded state of mind... If your guru acted in a completely perfect manner he would be inaccessible and you would be able to relate to him. It is therefore out of your Guru's great compassion that he may show apparent flaws... He is mirroring your own faults."
The psychological pressure is often increased by making the woman swear vows of secrecy. In addition, June Campbell was told that "madness, trouble or even death" could follow if she did not keep silent.
"I was told that in a previous life the lama I was involved with had had a mistress who caused him some trouble, and in order to get rid of her he cast a spell which caused her illness, later resulting in her death.
Here, I find interesting to emphasize the horrendous statement of Buddhist lama Beru who was saying something about the guru "mirroring" the fault of the disciple in order show the disciple's apparent flaws! Interestingly, I got a great opportunity very recently to witness this pathetic and desperate behavior of some stupid and ignorant Buddhist who was trying to mirror or rather "echo" (as he said) some of my eloquent statements back to me, vainly hoping that it might "reverberate back to me!" It seems that this is a common practice among Buddhists along with fornicating in secret sexual orgies with young women in order to attain "enlightenment."


What are your thoughts on the sexual orgies in Buddhism?

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Lacewing
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Re: Buddhism: "Enlightenment" through Sexual Orgies!

Post by Lacewing » Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:20 pm

Averroes wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:59 am
...
I was not aware of this, but in considering what you have presented, it makes sense... even if it is a bit shocking and disgusting. Such patterns of rationalizing sexual gratification while simultaneously denouncing it -- along with the twisted manner of telling victims what is good for them, and threatening them if they reveal it -- are so common throughout every religion and societal structure.

I've wondered about practices that people take on that do not embrace "being human". It seems false to "rise above" or "detach from" being human, as if being human is some kind of dirty and dark and low level thing to be. Why not revere and authentically explore what we are, rather than denouncing and rejecting it? Our denouncement and rejection surely create the delusions we push onto all else. What might we experience and realize by embracing being human as a glorious (even if challenging) experience? For any monks and nuns and preachers and new age gurus and theists to deny what they are, it does not seem as "holy/enlightened" as it seems dishonest and delusional. It seems to me that such detached humans are setting up their own tremendous life challenge of being at odds with the most precious gift they have: the potential of authentic being and of life.

Furthermore, for those who secretly indulge while abusing and lying to others, they become the evil personification of that which they are supposedly so removed from. And rather than being honest and reassessing what they are and what they think, they continue to pretend and allow other people to admire them. I am very wary of anyone who sets themselves above or apart, or anyone who claims to know great truths. There always appears to be an intoxication that cannot be trusted. There is too much to maintain and protect and deny, and that turns people into something else. From my perspective... ANY of us can be ANYTHING. What we CHOOSE can reveal a lot, regardless of what we are claiming. So whatever we claim, be wary/watchful for the opposite! Holy > being evil. Conscious > being unconscious. True > being false. Knowing > being delusional. Because there is no solid "right" state -- rather there is continual balancing and flowing, like ocean waves -- so any extreme push or pull will bring about the opposite. It's natural/nature... and perhaps that is a more powerful, vast, and real force/dynamic than any concept of a god that is set above and apart.

Veritas Aequitas
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Re: Buddhism: "Enlightenment" through Sexual Orgies!

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:08 am

Averroes wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:59 am
On Sexual Orgies and "Enlightenment" in Buddhism.

In general in Buddhism, having sex is seen as a serious monastic transgression for the ordained Buddhist monks and nuns. According to the Buddhist law for monastic life, the rules command celibacy and prohibit sexual relations for the monks and nuns.
However, there are many Buddhist monks who although being on vows of celibacy, nevertheless do engage in sexual orgies in secret as per Siddhartha’s recommendations for attaining “enlightenment.” As Siddhartha said to Ananda:
It is obvious from the above, you are very stupid in not seeing the fact of the above.

The 'however' in contrast to 'in-general' implied what you have presented are exceptional abuses from what is Buddhism-proper.

Buddhism-proper is represented by the 4 Noble Truths, the Noble EightFold Paths and the various core principles.
Within Buddhism, there are no doctrines and principles that are immutable from an all-powerful God like those of the Abrahamic and other theistic religions. In addition, the Story of the Buddha is a myth and there is no Buddha who was a real Prince once upon a time in India.

Over the ages, the above core principles of Buddhism had been expressed in various forms via various schools and sects, e.g. Theravada, Mahayana and Vajrayana, etc.
It is through the expression of forms where rare fringe practices adopted from the then existing traditions were incorporated.

Note the idols, statutes, praying with joss-sticks, food, fantasy, etc, which are very common in Buddhist temples are not in line with the principles of Buddhism-proper. But these are merely compromises to accommodate the competences of the lay-Buddhists.
Before Buddhism-proper the elements of sex [divine and spiritual aspects] were already existing in the fringe tantric. Bon, traditional teachings and some of these were unfortunately included in some fringe sutras.

As for the Sutra that you quoted, note it is some sort of a 'fringe' sutra;
This rare Sutra, ancient but timely, has long been treated with circumspection because of its liberal attitude toward sexuality and other ethical concerns.
https://www.amazon.com/Skill-Means-Upay ... 8120809157
If one read that particular sutra, the emphasis is never on the sexual aspects.
It stated 'EVEN' if at the extreme example [not something that is encouraged] one need to handle the matter with extra care [skillful means] and not abuses.

https://buddhism-controversy-blog.com/2 ... ans-sutra/

As for those monks who had strayed, they have been denounced by their respective and the general Buddhist community and defrocked.

If the Buddhists sutras are taken as immutable texts from all powerful being, then I would be very concern.
A good example of a religion that should be of great concern is the Quran which is declared to be direct from Allah and is immutable and it contains loads of evil laden elements. The real consequences of evil acts [including sex, rapes, genocides, etc.] inspired by the commands of a God within an immutable texts is so obvious.

Btw, I am not religious nor am I a Buddhist per se. I don't agree with Buddhism as a religion. However I have much appreciation for the core principles of Buddhism which can be independent of its religious aspects.

Averroes
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Re: Buddhism: "Enlightenment" through Sexual Orgies!

Post by Averroes » Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:34 pm

Lacewing wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:20 pm

I was not aware of this, but in considering what you have presented, it makes sense... even if it is a bit shocking and disgusting.
Maybe you might also be interested to know about another Buddhist monk named Chögyam Trungpa who after fleeing Tibet founded a Buddhist organization in the US in Boulder, Colorado, which also had many other branches across America and all over the world. Trungpa was a heavy alcoholic, a drug addict and was not only lavishly indulging in sexual orgies but also forced through psychological abuse many Western women into it. And all this was happening in the 70s. He came to be the leader of a huge community in the US. As with all cult leaders, he was a despotic tyrant like the previously considered Sogyal Lakar in France.

There is a notorious scandal which vividly illustrates the despotic nature of Buddhism epitomized by Buddhist monk Trungpa. It has been called the stripping Halloween party, where Trungpa had sexually assaulted the famous American poet William Merwin and his girlfriend of the time Dana Naone at a Halloween Nudist-swinger orgy party in a Hotel to which both Merwin and his girlfriend Dana had declined to attend because of its unhealthy (both morally and physically) nature. They had cloistered themselves in their room upstairs while the party was taking place downstairs. Upon seeing them absent from the party, Trungpa ordered his guards to bring them downstairs to the party, by force if necessary, to be stripped of their clothes in front of about a hundred onlookers! And they were brought down by force after Merwin, all by himself, very bravely fought but naturally lost a fight against a crowd of men wanting his woman to be undressed in public! This scandal happened in 1975 in the US. I propose to you to reproduce some excerpts of the testimonies of the eyes witnesses to this sexual assault, including those who were assaulted themselves.

Excerpt of William Merwin account:
William Merwin wrote:The hall was crowded with onlookers. Dana shouted, “Why doesn’t somebody call the police?” One of the women insulted her, told her to shut up. One of the male disciples threw a glass of wine in her face. I didn’t see it, and she said nothing about it until afterwards.

In the dining-room, Trungpa seated in a chair; a ring of subdued party-goers sitting on the floor. As we walked in, Dana look around and said loudly, “You’re all a bunch of cowards.”

Trungpa called us to come over in front of him, looked at me, and said, “I hear you’ve been making a lot of trouble.” Grabbed my free hand to try to force me down, saying, “Sit down.” (The other had been bleeding a lot and was wrapped in a towel.) When he let go, we sat down on the floor. He said we hadn’t accepted his invitation. I said that if we had to accept it, it wasn’t an invitation. An invitation, I said, allowed the other person the privilege of declining. We pushed that around a bit. The way he saw it, no force seemed to have been used, except by us. I reminded him that we’d never promised to obey him. He said. “Ah, but you asked to come.” Then, dramatically, “Into the lion’s mouth!” (…) In one of these exchanges, he got angry and threw his glass of sake in my face. “That’s sake,” he told me. He turned to Dana and said, “You and I can understand each other better. You’re Asiatic.” (…) I said I thought his use of a gang, and of intimidation, was fascistic. (…) To Dana, he said, “Are you afraid to show your pubic hair?” (...)
Excerpt of interview of Jack Niland, witness to the stripping:
transcript of interview with eyewitness Jack Niland wrote:
Niland recalls Trungpa saying “You still have to be stripped.” Niland relates: “That’s when Merwin said, “all along I’ve just been trying to protect my woman. No one’s going to see her naked body...” So first they said, “O.K. Merwin, take your clothes off.” He said, “I refuse, you’ll have to take them off...” So he(Trungpa) said, “Guards, take his clothes off...” And passively let people undress him.”

After Merwin, Niland recalls Rinpoche saying, “Now Dana.” Then, Niland relates: “He(Merwin) said, “No, not Dana.” (Rinpoche began) talking to him in his own terms about poetry…that any poet worth his salt has to be willing to take his clothes off, even sometimes literally. Rinpoche was saying, “I mean you no harm, I really like you.”…
“Merwin wasn’t buying any of it. He was screaming: “Hitler, bastard, Nazi, cop!” Then they went to strip Dana...and she fought back!...(Niland)
Dana Naone account of the assault:
Dana Naone wrote:Trungpa said we were invited to take our clothers off, or have them taken off for us. Neither of us felt it was an invitation, and the guards were ordered to do the job. I tried to hang on to William but we were pulled apart, and I lunged at Trungpa and twisted my fingers in his belt. Guards dragged me off and pinned me to the floor. I could see William struggling a few feet away from me. I fought, and called to friends, men and women, whose faces I saw in the crowd- to call the police. No one did. Only one man, Bill King, broke through to where I was lying at Trungpa’s feet, shouting, “Leave her alone” and “Stop it.” Trungpa rose above me, from his chair, and knocked Bill King down with a punch, swearing at him, and ordering that no one interfere. He was dragged away. (Dennis White was the only other person in the crowd who tried to protest; he appealed to Trungpa-during the argument William and I were having with him- to leave me out of it, but Trungpa told him to shut up.) Richard Assally was stripping me, while others held me down. Trungpa began punching Assally in the head, and urging him to do it faster. The rest of my clothes were torn off.” (Dana Naone, letter dated July 25 1977 to Trupp, Pickering and Pope)
Another eye witness, Barbara Meier recounts:
Babara Meier wrote:“We (Dana and she) were just trying to become slight friends, She was hysterical, and she was looking around the room, “What’s the matter with you? Won’t anybody help me? Won’t someone help me? Won’t someone call the police? Please, please call the police, somebody stop, stop this.”
“And she’d say, ‘Joseph! what’s the matter with you? Help me!’ And she’d look at somebody else, ‘Help me! Who are you? What kind of a friend are you? How can you let them do this to us; you’re all cowards! You’re all cowards!...’ (...)

The next thing after that I remember is that Merwin and Dana are standing together, facing Rinpoche, just completely huddled around each other. (They are nude.) Very beautiful. Adam and Eve. They are (laughs) gorgeous bodies...The whole thing, just visually, was very elegant somehow. It was like a melodrama… He’s protecting her, and she’s sobbing, and she’s yelling, “How could you do this to us?” And he’s(Trungpa) saying something about, “Well, I’m not ashamed,” and then the next thing I can remember, is him saying about “Well, if we have the guts to do it, what’s the matter with the rest of you cowards?” At which point, it was just amazing, without any hesitation whatsoever, everyone else, a hundred other people in that room, took off their clothes… The music went back on, they left the room, and people started dancing again.” (Interview with Barbara Meier (Faigo) 6/7/77)

You can read more eyewitness accounts at this following link: https://boulderbuddhistscam.files.wordp ... -party.pdf

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Averroes
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Re: Buddhism: "Enlightenment" through Sexual Orgies!

Post by Averroes » Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:48 pm

Lacewing wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:20 pm
I've wondered about practices that people take on that do not embrace "being human". It seems false to "rise above" or "detach from" being human, as if being human is some kind of dirty and dark and low level thing to be.
Philosophers have expressed their concern that many Buddhist monks, as well as Buddhist practitioners and apologist, think that Westerners need this kind of treatment (e.g. that given to William Merwin by Trungpa) because they think that Westerners are undisciplined and arrogant and need to be humbled in brutally vicious ways. For example, a Buddhist monk by the name Dzongsar Khyentse said in a letter to one of his students the following:
Dzongsar Khyentse wrote:Western psychotherapy and other spiritual and psychological paths are all fine so long as their methods crush ego. If they do that, they are valid paths. Any path that does not crush ego is spiritual material even if it is coated with all kinds of Buddhist jargon.
“Spiritual materialism” was an expression coined by the pervert psychopath Trungpa to advertise and market his “crazy wisdom” methods of humiliating “recalcitrant” individuals to his tyrannic and oppressive will. There is much of this kind of relabeling of obnoxious practices in Buddhism, which can only fool those who are already foolish by the way.

I do not think I need to elaborate more on what “crush ego” means to your intelligent disposition. But to others who might be less endowed than us with intelligence and might not be getting its meaning, it just means that the Westerners have to be plainly humiliated and subjected to degrading treatments by the Buddhists (or apologists thereof) such as that which William Merwin and Dana Naone had tasted.

I know of no more effective method to psychologically break a man (and his woman as well) than raping and abusing his woman in front of him, maybe with the exception of abusing his daughter as well. This can completely break a man psychologically. Don’t you agree? I think that ethically the woman, property, and honor of a civilized man should be completely off-limits to tamper with and even more so if the man is a pacifist like Merwin. Don't you agree?

It needs to be pointed out also that Merwin (as many Westerners as well) has strong beliefs about privacy and not submitting to external control, something which did not sit well with Trungpa, to say the least!

In an interview with a witness at the infamous Halloween party, William Mathews who knew Merwin expressed the following about him:
William Mathews wrote:Merwin has a strong belief in book learning, and Western intellectual study, which set him in immediate tempermental opposition to Trungpa’s ‘crazy wisdom’ direct experience. (He) also had strong belief in the complete privacy of individuals, and of not submitting to external controls. He once turned down a lucrative teaching job because of his refusal to pledge allegiance to the N.Y. Constitution.
Merwin was also someone who hated violence in all its forms. And contrary to popular belief about Buddhism, which is promoted by some stupid and ignorant apologist here and elsewhere, Buddhism is an extremely violent religion. This should not come as a surprise actually because the historical Siddhartha was a well-trained soldier before he became lazy and chose to live like a bum. But his teachings do carry a lot of violence even though this is not advertised by the Buddhist apologists in the West. But no need to worry, I am here to fill this lacuna! I have many scholarly resources on the matter if you or any other intelligent person here be interested. But anyway, an eyewitness to the Halloween party, Jack Niland said:
Jack Niland wrote:“...but the kind of vajrayan chants that we were doing from the beginning, vitality chants that have a good deal of very wrathful images in them- you know, cutting off the heads of people and leaving them to Dharmadhatu...Tibetan vajrayana art...based on compassionate anger, where if you can’t subdue your ego then you call upon wisdom to cut the aorta of ego...but everyone knows by then that the violent images are totally the idea of enlightened anger, vajra anger,...not to totally destroy you, but to only destroy your problem...And that Merwin, in his questions, was constantly talking about God as a reference point and very peace and lighty, you know. He would do the chants that were very peaceful chants…but whenever it came to a chant that had anything...any kind of diety holding a sword in his or her hand...he would make sort of a big point of not doing it...putting his chant down and not chanting.”
So this is why Merwin and his woman were singled out by Trungpa to be humiliated publicly in such a viciously degrading way. As the example of Trunpa, Sogyal, Kalu and many others have shown, humiliating the Westerners for there perceived “arrogance” is the goal of the Buddhist in the West, and they will go to great length to break the Westerners psychologically. As Mimi said
Mimi wrote:And yet, the community consisted of people who were often educated: doctors, magistrates, lawyers, businessmen or pilots … Buddhist masters don’t go looking for Tibetans living in India on three dollars, but rather for white people with money, in the West.
But anyway, this tendency to humiliate you with stupid nonsense and abuse can be clearly seen with the behavior of some Buddhist apologists here who I need not mention by name but whom everyone will recognize! Concerning the likes of Trungpa, the best way they came up to humiliate the Westerners collectively is by degrading their women while they watch impotently. Of course, Trungpa and those like him have coerced many Western women into sexual orgies and subjected them to a lot of degrading treatment as the many official reports and also documentaries on Youtube point out.

You might also be interested in the following YouTube video of a Dutch documentary subtitled in English on these Buddhist practices: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Rxljr7KGIE

And you can also watch this short French documentary, subtitled in English of Mimi and her father Guy Durand about the abuse of Sogyal on her. It need not be said that today Mimi Durand is a psychological wreck: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwpldZ667bY

In my way of life, it's a duty to protect our women from scumbags and profiteers such as Buddhist monk Trungpa and Buddhist apologists sharing his stupid disposition such as hate mongers, liars, and stupid and lazy parasites who seek to spread corruption, hatred, division, and war among peace-seeking people.
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Averroes
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Re: Buddhism: "Enlightenment" through Sexual Orgies!

Post by Averroes » Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:01 pm

Lacewing wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:20 pm
Furthermore, for those who secretly indulge while abusing and lying to others, they become the evil personification of that which they are supposedly so removed from. And rather than being honest and reassessing what they are and what they think, they continue to pretend and allow other people to admire them.
Given the clear and unambiguous position that you have expressed so far on the matter, I have absolutely no doubt that you will find the above stories to be ethically unacceptable as well. However, many Buddhists or apologists thereof have found “deep” meaning in the despotic and vicious behavior of Buddhist monks such as Trungpa. On a Buddhist forum I gathered the following posts among many similar ones on Trungpa:
dsiluvu wrote: Yes I agree with what Klein said... that there are many reason why but one huge reason is for sure is that all these High Lamas does not do anything randomly and they definitely have control. And if their death would be of more benefit to others then they would manifest the situation. And look at how big and strong they have grown. His center now under the wings of Sakyong Mipham Rinpoche his Sun continues to flourish, Shambala is renowned world wide and still growing strong... their publication Shambala Sun is also well established. Amazing that even after He is gone his legacy continues to grow.
So yeah I guess for highly attained masters such as Chogyam Trungpa it is definitely for the bigger and better good for his students in various different levels.
Site: https://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/inde ... t=next#new
Buddhalovely wrote: Trungpa's fluid grasp of English allowed him to frame the teachings in a fresh but authentic way, making them accessible to the western mind and cultural mindset. His life, art and teaching all were expressed by his "crazy wisdom" mastery that set him apart from the few teachers who first came to the west as well as the many who have followed. His unconventional lifestyle, he drank sometimes heavily and had many relationships with women, and his innovative presentation of the teachings, the introduction of the Shambhala Path, a secular spiritual sister path to Buddhism and the development of the Dharma Art form to name just two, are examples of his consistent "crazy wisdom" approach. Site: https://www.dorjeshugden.com/forum/inde ... t=next#new
There is a lot of such kind of besotted expression of approval to these Buddhist despots. In a documentary, Mimi had said that many of the victims who had suffered from so much abuse by the Buddhist gurus were most likely suffering from some kind of Stockholm syndrome.

The behavior of monks such as Trungpa, Sogyal, Kalu and a lot of others are endorsed and even praised in the Buddhist scriptures such as the Upayakausalya Sutra and a lot of many others. The scriptural name of this Buddhist religious practice/behavior is “the skillful means” which Trungpa renamed as “crazy wisdom.” This at the very core of Buddhism contrary to what some stupid apologist here will want us to believe. Well, he can try but he will only be fooling his lazy and stupid parasitic self when I am around! From a Buddhist Encyclopedia, we can read the following on the Upaya-kausalya Sutra:
Upaya kausalya, which may sometimes be referred to simply as upaya, is a Sanskrit word meaning "skillful means." It can be explained as applying the correct techniques or making wise choices within a situation in order to achieve a higher state of consciousness.

Using upaya kausalya is considered an attribute of a bodhisattva, or enlightened being who assists others in achieving enlightenment as well.

Yogapedia explains Upaya Kausalya
Buddhists practice upaya kausalya and gurus teach it as a way to help their disciples achieve enlightenment. Buddhist texts refer to Buddha using upaya kausalya by varying his teachings to suit his audience. The presentation of the teachings would change according to the level of understanding of the disciples, making them accessible to people of all spiritual levels.

Upaya kausalya is a major concept in the "Lotus Sutra," an influential Buddhist scripture.
Site: https://www.yogapedia.com/definition/72 ... a-kausalya
With this sutra, unethical and immoral behaviors can be justified and this is how it has been used for more than 2000 years to justify the innumerable wars and tortures inflicted on nations by Buddhist states. Many scholarly books are available on the subject by Western scholars on Buddhism. Which books of course I have.

Anyway back to what you were saying, it’s just really crazy as you rightly implied! Buddhists have come to praise madness! Recently, I was in a discussion with a Buddhist apologist here on the forum, and he too was praising madness and chronic depression and a plethora of psychiatric diseases, all of which he housed within himself! Moreover, he even went as far as finding excuses for the atrocities happening in Burma and Sri Lanka, and found “deep” meaning in the message of hate and genocide of preachers such as Buddhist Monk Sitagu. The latter monk, who quoting from the Buddhist scripture Mahavamsa, said that non-Buddhists are not real human beings and not to be more valued than beasts and that killing them does not amount to sin according to their horrendous scriptures, and that protecting their religion (which was not attacked) was more important than the lives of innocent, defenseless and weak non-Buddhist people! And this message was being addressed to the Burmese soldiers who were massacring the Rohingya Muslim women and children in Burma! This is what the Buddhist apologist actually said on the subject on this forum:
Veritas Aequitas wrote:Note there is a general issue with soldiers who are of the Abrahamic religions or Eastern religions where there is a precept 'Thou shall not kill another human being'. This is also a question raised by Buddhists who are also soldiers. Thus there is a need to with such a dilemma.
I believed Sitagu was trying to help the soldiers to deal with this dilemma
Veritas Aequitas wrote:The main message was the soldier(s) felt remorse [thus mental sufferings] after they have killed millions.
Therefore the main message is 'Do not kill or you will suffer mentally.'
Thus if one had killed [not deliberately] but in the course of duty, then one can find consolation in that message from the Mahavamsa - which is not part of true Buddhism.
Mahavamsa is definitely a Buddhist scripture according to the Theravada Buddhist scholars themselves but of course, the Buddhist apologist here using the "skillful means" prescription will try vainly to minimize its importance to an uninformed audience about this. Bad luck for them, I am here!

In my view, this Buddhist apologist has drunk too much Buddhist “nectar,” which is a mixture of vaginal and seminal fluids collected from the sexual orgies of their masters/gurus according to the Buddhist horrendous tradition!

When someone tries to find ways to console heavily armed soldiers who have killed and are still killing tens of thousands of defenseless women and children who were trying to flee from the massacre, then I say there is a serious problem with that person. Either he is stupid and ignorant or he is a psychopath. I have opted for the stupidity and ignorant option for now, but I certainly do not exclude the psychopath option given the psychoses that the individual is cultivating.
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Lacewing wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:20 pm
It seems to me that such detached humans are setting up their own tremendous life challenge of being at odds with the most precious gift they have: the potential of authentic being and of life.
They are morally and ethically dead people. That is how I read this comment of yours, maybe you can correct me if that be not a correct interpretation of your words. But for me these people have nothing inside them, they have killed their conscience! Now, what I find even more disturbing than the vicious treatment that Merwin and Dana were subjected to by Trungpa, is that only two men out of the hundred onlookers to the scene had challenged him! The others just remained passive spectators/voyeurs even though Dana was begging them to help her and Merwin! And this was not happening in some third world country but was happening in the USA!! And here, I observe that only you have expressed true indignation to this vicious religious Buddhist practice! Allow me to congratulate you and express to you my sincere appreciation for this particular position of yours.
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Re: Buddhism: "Enlightenment" through Sexual Orgies!

Post by Lacewing » Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:43 pm

Averroes wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:01 pm
The latter monk, who quoting from the Buddhist scripture Mahavamsa, said that non-Buddhists are not real human beings and not to be more valued than beasts and that killing them does not amount to sin according to their horrendous scriptures, and that protecting their religion (which was not attacked) was more important than the lives of innocent, defenseless and weak non-Buddhist people!
This reflects the same Christian attitude that sees non-theists not only as lesser beings, but as morally corrupt and evil -- when it is actually the theist attitude that is being so.

Why wouldn't all of creation NATURALLY be sacred, as it was created? That would be (it seems to me) the most beautiful understanding and way for theists to see and honor their God. And some theists do! But many more do not because they've become intoxicated and warped into accepting man's interpretation of such a god, which conveniently makes man RIGHT in all things done under the name of that god, and MAN gets to interpret and deliver what that message is. It is insanity.

Although I had never considered the corruption in Eastern religions, it makes sense -- because apparently, THIS IS WHAT MAN DOES!!! In other words, ANY religion seems compelled to take it upon itself to create a NEW ORDER (by defining what the ultimate order is), which is detouring or separating from NATURAL FLOW which people already have natural innate access to and are part of. Apparently, a primary motivation in molding a NEW ORDER is to justify and allow and GLORIFY man in doing whatever he imagines or wants. Some people take this to delusional and psychotic extremes.

I do not like to dig too deep into any particular creations of man. Many are so twisted and ugly and horrific, they make my heart ache and my soul scream. I see enough to recognize the "quality" or essence that is created, and that is what I respond to. This is why I believe that there are so many potentials for man to choose from... and why I find it interesting to see what is chosen. It says so much. It is usually more interesting than what a person is saying. People can, of course, say ANYTHING... and quote others... and claim to be associated with this or that. It's all pretty meaningless. Essence comes through, regardless. Perhaps essence is more easily recognized by those who treasure essence over stories.

I once attended a yoga workshop at a retreat, being led by someone who was apparently recognized as "important". I was fascinated to see all of the interactions taking place. The way the students treated him... the air of superiority about him... the way his assistant pinned on his microphone and fussed over him... the way he sat on a raised platform... the way he strolled around the room like a kingly master, looking down his nose and correcting people on their poses. The workshop was supposed to be for "beginners-intermediate". The pose of holding my leg over my head was too impossible to hold until he reached the back of the room where I was in the class of about 40 people. I saw other people's bodies shaking as they tried to hold the pose and impress him. I put my leg down and just stood there breathing in the moment. He stopped silently in front of me. I smiled at him. He smiled back. :D Then he continued his walk. In my view, every one of us in that class was a sacred being... and such sacredness can shine through all. All of this parading around, wearing cloaks, and declaring what's important... is a role. We're just playing (from my perspective) -- and look at all we are playing at!! But we take it so seriously... believing it to be more than play... and we often destroy the quality of life/experience in our quest to worship our game.

In contrast, at that same retreat (mentioned above), I attended a session with the Sufi teacher, Pir Vilayat Inayat Khan. A radiantly glowing unpretentious man -- he spoke of shared and familiar understanding and of love, recognizing the divine in all. I was surprised that much of the class fell asleep. Evidently they needed imaginary rules and steps to guide and intrigue them "forward" somewhere. Then he softly clapped his hands to wake up the sleepers, and he turned on joyous music and he danced with us -- a celebration of balance and love and beauty. His ego needed nothing from us... our egos had nothing to do. Wonderful.

This is an example of why so many theists and religions look (in comparison) so convoluted and delusional to me. They are creating an imaginary identity and story ON THE HEADS of other divine beings who do not participate in those imaginings. It is as if they seek to destroy all those who defy such imaginings. Whether madness or evil... it's what they are CHOOSING from vast potential, for whatever reasons the ego demands.

Your post, Averroes, inspired me to respond in this way. It is interesting to see these patterns rippling throughout the creations of mankind, even those we are convinced are so clear and true. The places where man elevates himself in any form, appear to be the most suspect of dark and delusional manifestations. It is best (I think) not to follow or believe such things.

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Re: Buddhism: "Enlightenment" through Sexual Orgies!

Post by HexHammer » Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:43 pm

Averroes wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:59 am
Siddhartha was a second class citizen in ancient India before he founded the religion known today as Buddhism.
Uhmm? He was a prince who took the frugal life.

Besides all this enlightenment nonsense can't be achieved just by doing weird things, you have to get some knowledge as in solid facts, that which we call science in these modern times!

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Re: Buddhism: "Enlightenment" through Sexual Orgies!

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:00 am

Averroes wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:01 pm
Veritas Aequitas wrote: The main message was the soldier(s) felt remorse [thus mental sufferings] after they have killed millions.

Therefore the main message is 'Do not kill or you will suffer mentally.'

Thus if one had killed [not deliberately] but in the course of duty, then one can find consolation in that message from the Mahavamsa - which is not part of true Buddhism.
You are so desperate and thus your attempt to twist my point to the worst light.
You seemed to chicken out in addressing my arguments directly.

The contexts of the above was with reference to soldiers of any recognized countries.
The Buddhist and my personal views is war is evil, cause tremendous sufferings and should be abolished as soon as possible.
But in the meantime in the current state of human nature, wars will occur.

Where there is war, there will be killing from both sides of the warring factions because the mission is to kill or be killed in a war.
For Buddhists who happened to be soldiers who had killed in the course of duty, they can get consolation from the Mahavamsa - which is not part of true Buddhism.

I had stated the re Buddhism core principle, the 4 Noble Truths [4NTs],
"the main message is 'Do not kill or you will suffer mentally.'"

The main core principle drivers of Buddhism is pacifism, compassion and to get rid of all wars because it bring forth sufferings [re 4NTs] to both side to the detriment of humanity.

On the other hand, Islam [Allah] exhorts Muslims to go war against the heavily condemned non-Muslims [worst creatures].
60:4. ... And there hath arisen between us [Muslims] and you [infidels] hostility and hate for ever until ye [infidels] believe in Allah ..

2:216. Warfare [l-qitālu] is ordained [kutiba: prescribed] for you [Muslims], though it is hateful unto you [Muslims]; but it may happen that ye [Muslims] hate a thing which is good for you, and it may happen that ye love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, ye know not.

2:244. Fight in the way of Allah, and know that Allah is Nearer, Knower. ..
The evidence of the above is so glaring since 1400 years ago when Islam first emerged.

In addition there are hundreds and thousands of verses in the Quran supporting the above directly and indirectly.
Last edited by Veritas Aequitas on Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Buddhism: "Enlightenment" through Sexual Orgies!

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:32 am

Averroes wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:34 pm
Lacewing wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:20 pm

I was not aware of this, but in considering what you have presented, it makes sense... even if it is a bit shocking and disgusting.
Maybe you might also be interested to know about another Buddhist monk named Chögyam Trungpa who after fleeing Tibet founded a Buddhist organization in the US in Boulder, Colorado, which also had many other branches across America and all over the world. Trungpa was a heavy alcoholic, a drug addict and was not only lavishly indulging in sexual orgies but also forced through psychological abuse many Western women into it. And all this was happening in the 70s. He came to be the leader of a huge community in the US. As with all cult leaders, he was a despotic tyrant like the previously considered Sogyal Lakar in France.

There is a notorious scandal which vividly illustrates the despotic nature of Buddhism epitomized by Buddhist monk Trungpa. It has been called the stripping Halloween party, where Trungpa had sexually assaulted the famous American poet
Abuses, exploitation and scandals within the religious community happened within all religions by some perverted clergies and practitioners.

There are many cases of Christian priests abusing and raping altar boys, orphans in their care, etc. There are sexual abuses, financial scandals, tortures and other evil acts within Buddhism, Christianity, Taoism, Islam, Hinduism, etc.
But in most cases such perverted acts are not motivated by the core religious doctrines of the respective religion but rather by the inherent evil tendencies of the respective clergy or practitioners.

As far as Buddhism [this OP] is concern, the reported evil and perverted acts by Buddhist monks are not driven by any of the core principles of Buddhism. Note the central driver of Buddhism is based on its core principles and not via immutable texts supposedly delivered in pristine form by a God like Allah.

Unfortunately there could be some evil elements with the texts of some fringe Buddhist sects. But they contradict and cannot be considered to be a part of Buddhism proper. Even if such exists, in context, they are needles in the haystack of the wide range of Buddhist sutras which are in alignment with Buddhism proper.

Therefore one cannot associate the scandals and abuses by Buddhist monks and Buddhists with Buddhism proper.

Where one can blame a religion for the evil acts of the believers is when the central doctrines of that religion exhort its believers to commit divine acts to please God which results in evil consequences and sufferings to non-believers and even its own believers.
The most glaring example of such a religion is Islam which is inherently evil and exhorts its believers to commit divine acts [which is conventionally evil] on non-Muslims. I have given supporting evidence on this.

viewtopic.php?p=375285#p375285

viewtopic.php?p=375400#p375400

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Re: Buddhism: "Enlightenment" through Sexual Orgies!

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:06 am

There are loads of scandals within the Buddhist communities but one critical points is these evils acts are not driven by the core principles and ethos/pathos of Buddhism-proper.

DALAI LAMA SPEAKS OUT ABOUT SOGYAL RINPOCHE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wP4rsM7AZQ

His Holiness the Dalai Lama calls Sogyal Rinpoche "disgraced" and stresses that nobody should follow the teachings of any lama without question - not even from himself - stressing that they must live up to the teachings of Buddha and what society expects. He also reiterates his advice from 1993 that lamas who behave badly should be exposed in the media.
I am not a Buddhist per-se and I am not religious.
Personally I am against religiosity and I believe ALL religions must be weaned off in time -ASAP - with Islam as the critical priority.

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Re: Buddhism: Self-Checks and Controls Guides

Post by Veritas Aequitas » Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:27 am

Within the core principles and core practices of Buddhism-proper that are self-checks and controls that guide Buddhists not to end up in the wrong paths of abuses and evil acts.
One of the main ethos/pathos of Buddhism-proper is the Middle-Way thus the avoidance of evil acts.

One critical guiding principles of Buddhism-proper [The Kalama Sutta] is independent thinking, self-check and control regardless of what one's teachers or even the sutras advocated.
The Kālāma Sutta is a discourse of the Buddha contained in the Aṅguttara Nikaya of the Tipiṭaka.[1] It is often cited by those of the Theravada and Mahayana traditions alike as the Buddha's "charter of free inquiry."[2]

The Kālāma Sutta is also used for advocating prudence by the use of sound logical reasoning arguments for inquiries in the practice that relates to the discipline of seeking truth, wisdom and knowledge whether it is religious or not.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalama_Sutta
Discerning Religious Teachings;
The Buddha proceeds to list the criteria by which any sensible person can decide which teachings to accept as true. Do not blindly believe religious teachings, he tells the Kalamas, just because they are claimed to be true, or even through the application of various methods or techniques. Direct knowledge grounded in one's own experience can be called upon. He advises that the words of the wise should be heeded and taken into account. He proposes not a passive acceptance but, rather, constant questioning and personal testing to identify those truths which verifiably reduce one's own stress or misery (Pali: dukkha)
Note this remark;
Translator's note:
Although this discourse is often cited as the Buddha's carte blanche for following one's own sense of right and wrong, it actually says something much more rigorous than that.
Traditions are not to be followed simply because they are traditions.
Reports (such as historical accounts or news) are not to be followed simply because the source seems reliable.

One's own preferences are not to be followed simply because they seem logical or resonate with one's feelings. Instead, any view or belief must be tested by the results it yields when put into practice; and — to guard against the possibility of any bias or limitations in one's understanding of those results — they must further be checked against the experience of people who are wise.

The ability to question and test one's beliefs in an appropriate way is called appropriate attention.
The ability to recognize and choose wise people as mentors is called having admirable friends.
According to Iti 16-17, these are, respectively, the most important internal and external factors for attaining the goal of the practice.
For further thoughts on how to test a belief in practice, see MN 61, MN 95, AN 7.79, and AN 8.53. For thoughts on how to judge whether another person is wise, see MN 110, AN 4.192, and AN 8.54.
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitak ... .than.html
The positive of the Kalama Sutta is glaring in contrast to the obligatory commands of the Abrahamic God which every believer cannot question and must obey [as blind as possible] to gain favor of eternal life in heaven or else it will be eternal burning in Hell.

Despite the warnings by the Kalama Sutta and other cautions, there will always be SOME perverts who exploit and abuse the vulnerable for their selfish interests.
Those exceptions are presented in this OP must be condemned and humanity must strive to get rid of ALL religions & traces religiosity in time [ASAP] and replace them with fool proof spiritual methods to deal with the inherent unavoidable existential crisis.

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Re: Buddhism: "Enlightenment" through Sexual Orgies!

Post by Averroes » Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:42 am

Lacewing wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:43 pm
Although I had never considered the corruption in Eastern religions, it makes sense -- because apparently, THIS IS WHAT MAN DOES!!!
I think that the situation is far worst in the Eastern religions. Many Westerners fall into the trap of the Eastern religions trying to escape from what they judge to be a bad situation and then fall into something far worst than what they were trying to escape from. I find Buddhism to be obnoxious. It is a completely repulsive way of life. You previously talked about authenticity and honesty, and Buddhism is the exact opposite of those! It is completely in-authentic and completely tasteless and depressing. Even the Buddhist apologist on the forum has himself admitted that he is chronically existentially depressed, and even worst he thinks that it is a normal way of life and that this is the way life should be for everyone!! You have heard the testimony of Mimi when she says:
Mimi Durand wrote:The adults submerged in this environment have to readapt reality in order to survive. They talk of compassion all day long while witnessing public humiliations. They question and repress every form of instinct or feeling. They share a common resentment and anger at living a life of unresolved deceptions. In order to ease this frustration, the master encourages them to eliminate their empathy for their families and immediate friends. And he then fills that void with a different form of compassion, for a state of humanity reduced to a concept: abstract and distant.
When I read this testimony of Mimi, it is the exact same ideas that our in-house Buddhist apologist recounts over and over again. If you have had the opportunity of reading his posts you will, I believe, recognize the precision of Mimi’s assessment.
This testimony of Mimi may be felt as gloomy to us but for a Buddhist it is normal and worst yet, praised! Many negative conditions for us for example like depression, or being humiliated or whatnot is praised by them as something to be sought or done! I witnessed that here itself! It made me laugh initially, but this is no joke! This is the sad reality of the Buddhists which many young women such as Mimi have had to go through for us to realize how bless we are not to have fallen into the trap of the horrendous Buddhism.
If you watched the French documentary of Mimi, you must have seen that she is beautiful young woman, yet her life is now wasted because she is just now a psychological wreck due to what she went through.

Any way, there is so much I could have talked about in the corruption of the Eastern religions, but the little I have mentioned on this so far, you got it right away! It’s such a pleasure to converse with intelligent people.
_________________________
Lacewing wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:43 pm
Apparently, a primary motivation in molding a NEW ORDER is to justify and allow and GLORIFY man in doing whatever he imagines or wants. Some people take this to delusional and psychotic extremes.
That is a very interesting perspective. I do as well believe that the glorification of ANY man is delusional. There are some psychotic people who are even more delusional in glorifying objects such as trees, cows, monkeys, serpents, rats and whatnot.

_______________________
Lacewing wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:43 pm
People can, of course, say ANYTHING... and quote others... and claim to be associated with this or that. It's all pretty meaningless. Essence comes through, regardless. Perhaps essence is more easily recognized by those who treasure essence over stories.
This speaks to me! I think you nailed all this quite well with these few statements! The “essence”, “the form”, “that which cannot be said but is shown,” all these form the core of philosophy. If one does not get this, then one has lost his/her time doing philosophy. Interestingly though, this cannot be taught by any amount of philosophy books one may have read but is a disposition of the soul. Those who lack this ability are correctly labeled as a stupid person. Don’t you agree?

Talking of form did you make the relation between Trungpa’s statement and Aequitas Veritas statement on this thread? Here they are to facilitate the comparison for you and others:
Trungpa wrote: To Dana, he said, “Are you afraid to show your pubic hair?” (…) “Well, if we have the guts to do it, what’s the matter with the rest of you cowards?”
Veritas Aequitas wrote:You seemed to chicken out in addressing my arguments directly.
And this is the essence of Buddhism! They talk of self control, yet they are themselves incapable of controlling themselves. Buddhism is a religion filled with contradictions. It is, therefore, not surprising that they end up praising serious psychological diseases and glorifying psychopaths subsequently!

As Mimi said:
Mimi wrote:They share a common resentment and anger at living a life of unresolved deceptions. In order to ease this frustration, the master encourages them to eliminate their empathy for their families and immediate friends. And he then fills that void with a different form of compassion, for a state of humanity reduced to a concept: abstract and distant.
These are very powerful words of Mimi Durand and so eloquent and precise as well. Don’t you agree?

Any way, this is a good find and I have to congratulate you here for having understood this.

___________________________
Lacewing wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:43 pm
The pose of holding my leg over my head was too impossible to hold
That must have been painful! Some years ago when I had the time and was into jogging, I did some stretching before and after each jogging session to prevent muscle cramps, and that was as far as my “contortionist” abilities extended!! :)

____________________________
Lacewing wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:43 pm
In contrast, at that same retreat (mentioned above), I attended a session with the Sufi teacher, Pir Vilayat Inayat Khan. A radiantly glowing unpretentious man -- he spoke of shared and familiar understanding and of love, recognizing the divine in all. I was surprised that much of the class fell asleep. Evidently they needed imaginary rules and steps to guide and intrigue them "forward" somewhere. Then he softly clapped his hands to wake up the sleepers, and he turned on joyous music and he danced with us -- a celebration of balance and love and beauty. His ego needed nothing from us... our egos had nothing to do. Wonderful.
Thank you for sharing your experiences with me. I am not into sufism myself but I do like to listen to the recitation of the Holy Quran a lot. It has a calming and an appeasing effect on my soul, mind and body. Whenever I go to the Holy Quran, I always get satisfaction and great joy. May I ask you if you have ever listened to a recitation of the Holy Quran in Arabic? If not, may I in turn share some of my experiences with you? If you would kindly allow me, I would like to propose to you to listen to a recitation of the Holy Quran in a clean place, i.e. not in the bathroom or restroom, and tell me how you felt if you feel like sharing the experience with me. If you agree, then here are some short recitations of the Holy Quran from professional reciters that I have chosen:

1. Al-Fatiha (chapter 1): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6r47L-8uf8
2. At-Teen(chapter 95): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SK88FsJ3xQM
3. Al-'Asr (chapter 103): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5iElBopeyA
4. Al-Feel(chapter 105): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfBECWykm2o
5. Al-Baqara (chapter 2 verse 255) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaNdjbGN-Fg

If you will want to listen to some more, there are many other YouTube videos that I can direct to.

__________________________
Lacewing wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:43 pm
Your post, Averroes, inspired me to respond in this way.
I take this as a compliment. Thank you. I think that you have a pronounced artistic disposition. Is there any truth to this or it’s just an impression that I am having?

___________________________

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Re: Buddhism: "Enlightenment" through Sexual Orgies!

Post by Averroes » Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:47 am

HexHammer wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:43 pm
Averroes wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:59 am
Siddhartha was a second class citizen in ancient India before he founded the religion known today as Buddhism.
Uhmm? He was a prince who took the frugal life.
That is correct as well. To understand what I meant by the statement you quoted, you will have to understand a bit more about the structure of society in ancient India up to until recently when it was abolished.

In ancient India, society was divided into four castes (varnas in Sanskrit transliteration). From the highest to lowest, these were: Brahmin (intellectuals, priests or clergy), kshatriya (soldiers), Vaisha (merchants) and shudra (laborers, manual workers). The Brahmin were the highest caste and were responsible for learning, studying and preserving the most sacred scriptures of the Hindu religion (a.k.a. the Hindu Dharma). These most sacred scriptures in Hinduism are known as the Vedas and there are four of them: the Rig Veda, the Yajur Veda, the Sama Veda and the Atharva Veda. The Kshstriya were the soldiers who were responsible for defending the land. The shudra were the lowest caste and they were completely barred from the Vedas. For example, if a Shudra had inadvertently heard the Vedas being recited, molten lead were to be poured into his ears and if they had recited it, their tongue were to be cut off according to the ancient Hindu religious law book known as the Manu Smrithi.

Siddhartha Gautama was born into a Hindu family of the Kshatriya caste.

There are some scriptures where “the Buddha” is reported to have had very violent words against the Brahmin caste! This can be viewed by some as a resentment or inferiority complex that he could not repress but had to vent out in violent sermons.

It is reported in that scripture that the so-called “Buddha” said to Bodhisattva Kasyapa:
  • O good man! A person who kills an icchantika does not suffer from the karmic returns due to the killings of the three kinds named above. O good man! All those Brahmins are of the class of the icchantika. For example, such actions as digging the ground, mowing the grass, felling trees, cutting up corpses, ill-speaking, and lashing do not call forth karmic returns. Killing an icchantika comes within the same category. No karmic results ensue. Why not? Because no Brahmins and no five laws to begin with faith, etc. are involved here [Maybe: no Brahmins are concerned with the "five roots" of faith, vigour, mindfulness, concentration, and Wisdom]. For this reason, killing [of this kind] does not carry one off to hell. [Nirvana Sutra]
An “icchantika” in Buddhism refers to incorrigible human beings lacking the requisites for achieving “enlightenment”.

You also can read the following as statements of the so-called “the Buddha”:
  • In just the same way, the Bodhisattva-mahasattva acts likewise for reasons of protecting Wonderful Dharma. Should beings slander Mahayana, he applies kindly lashings, in order to cure them. Or he may take life in order that what obtained in the past could be mended, thus seeing to it that the law [Dharma] could be accorded with. The Bodhisattva always thinks: "How might I best make beings aspire to faith? I shall always act as is best fitted to the occasion."[Nirvana Sutra]
So to protect the Buddhist religion (or Dharma in Sanskrit) one can kill and it is alright according to these reported statements of the Buddha. There are many books by Western scholars on that, are you interested?
HexHammer wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:43 pm
Besides all this enlightenment nonsense can't be achieved just by doing weird things, you have to get some knowledge as in solid facts, that which we call science in these modern times!
You are absolutely right. But with this statement addressed to me, you are trying to convince an already convinced individual, i.e. myself!
On the other hand, it is not so easy to try to explain the obvious to a Buddhist or an apologist thereof that being a lazy parasite by begging one half of the day to earn a living and engaging in sexual orgies in the other half of the day is not the way to achieve enlightenment! And now I wish you good luck in trying to teach science and reason to such an individual!

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Dontaskme
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Re: Buddhism: "Enlightenment" through Sexual Orgies!

Post by Dontaskme » Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:54 pm

Averroes wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:42 am
And this is the essence of Buddhism! They talk of self control, yet they are themselves incapable of controlling themselves.
No, that is not what Buddhism is. No person (thing) is a Buddha. There is only Buddha.

No ''thing'' is a Buddha, because EVERYTHING and NOTHING is already Buddha Nature...Nature is just happening all by itself spontaneously. Nature is infinite. Infinity is where things happen that don't.

The one that claims to be a Buddha is ego, it doesn't exist, it is an artificial contruct of the mind. A fictional character within the illusory dream of separation. Infinity is indivisable so there is nothing controlling anything, there's just what's happening to no one uncontrollably.

An artificial construct cannot control anything...no more than it can control being born or dying.

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This “Sat Chit Ananda” is not for sale, beware of the man selling sand on a beach.



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Last edited by Dontaskme on Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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