Humans are fundamentally evil

[philosopher]

clear evidence that humans are fundamentally evil.

In the Stanford Prison Experiment, the conclusion was that it demonstrated that the simulated-prison situation, rather than individual personality traits, caused the participants' behavior. People were told what to do, and how to act-out. The participants played their roles to varying degrees.

The Milgram Experiment measured the willingness of male study participants to obey an authority figure who instructed them to perform acts conflicting with their personal conscience. The experiment found that a very high proportion of men would fully obey the instructions, albeit reluctantly.

Neither of these experiments point to your claim that: "humans are fundamentally evil. There are only few good people amongst the entire human race. It is less than 1 %."

I've always said that humans are fundamentally evil.

And this is likely why you'll see "clear and total evidence" wherever you choose, so that you can maintain that what you think is "right". Yes? Maybe it has been your own experience that people seem mostly evil, but that is far different from it being an ultimate/supreme truth about humankind. If you want the truth, you have to be willing to truly understand and question what's currently going on in your own head. No one's perception/reality is the reality of and for all. Makes sense, doesn't it?

Have you ever pondered divine nature in all?

Thank you. Now, this is an interesting context. So, what you are saying is that the Stanford Prison Experiment cannot be used for anything other than entertainment, role-playing game that is not the same as most humans being evil IRL?

Seems like I made a fallacy in the OP... sorry.

[Lacewing]

Thank you. Now, this is an interesting context. So, what you are saying is that the Stanford Prison Experiment cannot be used for anything other than entertainment, role-playing game that is not the same as most humans being evil IRL?

Seems like I made a fallacy in the OP... sorry.

I think there are worthwhile insights in the exercise -- I just don't think it serves as proof that the majority of humans are "evil".

If the majority of humans were evil (as you claim), I think we'd see a very different world. There is a lot of good and beauty being demonstrated in the world... a lot of love and selflessness and charity. I see most people as good.

[Philosophy Explorer]

This sounds like Thomas Hobbes all over again where Hobbes describes mankind in the state of nature as being "brutish." (more exactly historically it comes up as Lockes vs Hobbes) so I'm not gaining anything from this thread.

PhilX

[philosopher]

Thank you. Now, this is an interesting context. So, what you are saying is that the Stanford Prison Experiment cannot be used for anything other than entertainment, role-playing game that is not the same as most humans being evil IRL?

Seems like I made a fallacy in the OP... sorry.

I think there are worthwhile insights in the exercise -- I just don't think it serves as proof that the majority of humans are "evil".

If the majority of humans were evil (as you claim), I think we'd see a very different world. There is a lot of good and beauty being demonstrated in the world... a lot of love and selflessness and charity. I see most people as good.

Godwins law here we come... (sorry, but this is an obvious example):

But I still need an explanation of how humans can be good - yet at the very same time vote for people like Hitler - and even after the war was over still claim Hitler was a good person?

A majority in the years 1945–49 stated National Socialism to have been a good idea

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denazification#Surveys

How can the majority of germans _AFTER_ the war believe in nazism yet you still claim they are basically good?

[Harbal]

Humans are evil. No doubt about it.

Well humans invented the word along with it's definition. We could always change the definition so the description doesn't apply to most of us. Fixed.

[philosopher]

Humans are evil. No doubt about it.

Well humans invented the word along with it's definition. We could always change the definition so the description doesn't apply to most of us. Fixed.

My definition of evil:

To willfully harm or wish to cause harm to a person who did not wish to harm anyone (besides the ones who wants to harm him/her). That is, to harm an innocent individual knowingly it is causing harm.

Please provide an argument against this definition, if you disagree.

[Lacewing]

But I still need an explanation of how humans can be good - yet at the very same time vote for people like Hitler - and even after the war was over still claim Hitler was a good person?

For all sorts of reasons: ego, fear, peer pressure, ignorance, insanity, etc.

How can the majority of germans _AFTER_ the war believe in nazism yet you still claim they are basically good?

The same reasons above are why some people do all sorts of things. Note that I did not claim anyone doing bad behavior is good. Please don't twist my words.

Now will you answer why you narrow your scope to certain time periods and certain people in an attempt to rationalize your claim -- "humans are fundamentally evil. There are only few good people amongst the entire human race. It is less than 1 %." -- while ignoring all other factors, and ignoring that your claim is completely overblown? Why are you doing that?

[Harbal]

Please provide an argument against this definition, if you disagree.

I don't disagree with the existing definition. I'm saying let's give it a new definition so it no longer applies to us.

[Philosophy Explorer]

Please provide an argument against this definition, if you disagree.

I don't disagree with the existing definition. I'm saying let's give it a new definition so it no longer applies to us.

Are you evil under the current definition?

PhilX

[Necromancer]

Why is it not simply to execute "Nazis" by firing squad or guillotine and putting them in prison before that time?

Just like you don't torture torturers for the torture they are found to have committed...

Under Democracy and Human Rights (UDHR) and by enforced Capital Punishment, maybe the most (Kantian) ethical is to stay with prison (including legal appeals procedures) and "whatever execution method", preferably firing squad or guillotine by my view!

However, an exciting new approach is to grant some prisoners who are serving longer time in prisons "lethal palliative care" (by the usual approved ways for this) so that both they and their victims can be "happy" or content (insofar...).

I approve of this extra way for putting prisoners to death!

Good?

[philosopher]

For all sorts of reasons: ego, fear, peer pressure, ignorance, insanity, etc.

How can you be good and not evil if you choose to succumb to these reasons?
"peer pressure" - I don't give a damn shit about peer pressure. An opinion is an opinion regardless of the reasons.

"fear" - fear of what? I understand if people in the survey didn't really believe in what they answered and answered as they did because of fear of consequences from their neighbor, but if fear is causing them to genuinly have that opinion that Hitler was the good guy, then they're evil.

Now will you answer why you narrow your scope to certain time periods and certain people in an attempt to rationalize your claim -- "humans are fundamentally evil. There are only few good people amongst the entire human race. It is less than 1 %." -- while ignoring all other factors, and ignoring that your claim is completely overblown? Why are you doing that?

It was just an example. I could name more examples: In Turkey, 2016 they voted against liberal democracy in favor of Erdogan as dictator.

The Putin-elections and re-elections.

The north koreans genuinly believing their "dear leader" is good.

I can come up with alot of examples of the majority of humans believing evil is good.

[philosopher]

Why is it not simply to execute "Nazis" by firing squad or guillotine and putting them in prison before that time?

Just like you don't torture torturers for the torture they are found to have committed...

Under Democracy and Human Rights (UDHR) and by enforced Capital Punishment, maybe the most (Kantian) ethical is to stay with prison (including legal appeals procedures) and "whatever execution method", preferably firing squad or guillotine by my view!

However, an exciting new approach is to grant some prisoners who are serving longer time in prisons "lethal palliative care" (by the usual approved ways for this) so that both they and their victims can be "happy" or content (insofar...).

I approve of this extra way for putting prisoners to death!

Good?

Yes, I'm with you. Except when in regards to nazis. Of course they should have the right to appeals and lawyers and all that.
But if found guilty in nazi membership, and it has been proven without doubt, I see no reason to spare them from torture.

[Lacewing]

I can come up with alot of examples of the majority of humans beleiving evil is good.

Of course you can. You've clearly been obsessing over it for awhile.

Why are you ignoring all other people? Can you really not see them -- or do they just not serve your story?

Why are you so fixated on evil? Has it ever occurred to you that you're developing a unique bond with it?

[philosopher]

I can come up with alot of examples of the majority of humans beleiving evil is good.

Of course you can. You've clearly been obsessing over it for awhile.

Why are you ignoring all other people? Can you really not see them -- or do they just not serve your story?

Why are you so fixated on evil? Has it ever occurred to you that you're developing a unique bond with it?

Good question, actually.

I must think more about this (I mean your question, not evil).

[Greta]

Life requires that you kill and eat other living things. Life itself is fundamentally brutish and thus so are we.

However, life also has an easygoing, amenable side to it when it's not killing and competing, and thus so do we.