Are we self-deriving ideas?

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: Are we self-deriving ideas?

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:34 pm

bahman wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:32 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:28 pm
bahman wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:19 pm

Standard model is a formalism which takes, electron, quark and other particles into account. Ideas seems to me that are emergent phenomena. They are manifestation of how neurons inside our brain fire.
Then the model itself is a result of electrons (etc.) cycling through themselves?
It seems so.
So is it the electron which forms the cycle or the cycle which forms the electron?

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bahman
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Re: Are we self-deriving ideas?

Post by bahman » Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:39 pm

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:34 pm
bahman wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:32 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:28 pm


Then the model itself is a result of electrons (etc.) cycling through themselves?
It seems so.
So is it the electron which forms the cycle or the cycle which forms the electron?
It is electrons which form the cycles. Electrons interact with each other and produce a feedback loop.

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: Are we self-deriving ideas?

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:40 pm

bahman wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:39 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:34 pm
bahman wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:32 pm

It seems so.
So is it the electron which forms the cycle or the cycle which forms the electron?
It is electrons which form the cycles. Electrons interact with each other and produce a feedback loop.
And this must go on ad-infinitum?

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bahman
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Re: Are we self-deriving ideas?

Post by bahman » Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:44 pm

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:40 pm
bahman wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:39 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:34 pm


So is it the electron which forms the cycle or the cycle which forms the electron?
It is electrons which form the cycles. Electrons interact with each other and produce a feedback loop.
And this must go on ad-infinitum?
Not really. The number of electrons in our brains are finite.

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: Are we self-deriving ideas?

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:23 pm

bahman wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:44 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:40 pm
bahman wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:39 pm

It is electrons which form the cycles. Electrons interact with each other and produce a feedback loop.
And this must go on ad-infinitum?
Not really. The number of electrons in our brains are finite.
So the electrons inside the brain are seperate from the electrons from outside the brain? One group of electrons differs from another?

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bahman
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Re: Are we self-deriving ideas?

Post by bahman » Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:57 pm

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:23 pm
bahman wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:44 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:40 pm


And this must go on ad-infinitum?
Not really. The number of electrons in our brains are finite.
So the electrons inside the brain are seperate from the electrons from outside the brain? One group of electrons differs from another?
The electrons inside the brain are screened from the outsider through the positive charge of neutrons.

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: Are we self-deriving ideas?

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:00 pm

bahman wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:57 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:23 pm
bahman wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:44 pm

Not really. The number of electrons in our brains are finite.
So the electrons inside the brain are seperate from the electrons from outside the brain? One group of electrons differs from another?
The electrons inside the brain are screened from the outsider through the positive charge of neutrons.
And where is the source for this?

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bahman
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Re: Are we self-deriving ideas?

Post by bahman » Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:02 pm

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:00 pm
bahman wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:57 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:23 pm


So the electrons inside the brain are seperate from the electrons from outside the brain? One group of electrons differs from another?
The electrons inside the brain are screened from the outsider through the positive charge of neutrons.
And where is the source for this?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shielding_effect. I hope it is useful. Feel free to ask questions. :D

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: Are we self-deriving ideas?

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:13 pm

bahman wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:02 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:00 pm
bahman wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:57 pm

The electrons inside the brain are screened from the outsider through the positive charge of neutrons.
And where is the source for this?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shielding_effect. I hope it is useful. Feel free to ask questions. :D
This would apply to electrons everywhere....inside or outside the brain.

Regardless...the neutrons movement towards electrons is still determined by the relation of other electrons, necessitating that the electron effects the electron through the neutron.

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bahman
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Re: Are we self-deriving ideas?

Post by bahman » Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:21 pm

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:13 pm
bahman wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:02 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:00 pm


And where is the source for this?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shielding_effect. I hope it is useful. Feel free to ask questions. :D
This would apply to electrons everywhere....inside or outside the brain.
Yes.
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:13 pm
Regardless...the neutrons movement towards electrons is still determined by the relation of other electrons, necessitating that the electron effects the electron through the neutron.
That is one of the option. Electrons can affect each other since shielding is not perfect and abrupt.

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: Are we self-deriving ideas?

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:27 pm

bahman wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:21 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:13 pm
bahman wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:02 pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shielding_effect. I hope it is useful. Feel free to ask questions. :D
This would apply to electrons everywhere....inside or outside the brain.
Yes.
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:13 pm
Regardless...the neutrons movement towards electrons is still determined by the relation of other electrons, necessitating that the electron effects the electron through the neutron.
That is one of the option. Electrons can affect each other since shielding is not perfect and abrupt.
So we are still left with a loop, where from the premise of the electron, reality exists through a loop.

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bahman
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Re: Are we self-deriving ideas?

Post by bahman » Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:31 pm

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:27 pm
bahman wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:21 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:13 pm


This would apply to electrons everywhere....inside or outside the brain.
Yes.
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:13 pm
Regardless...the neutrons movement towards electrons is still determined by the relation of other electrons, necessitating that the electron effects the electron through the neutron.
That is one of the option. Electrons can affect each other since shielding is not perfect and abrupt.
So we are still left with a loop, where from the premise of the electron, reality exists through a loop.
Yes, we have loop.

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: Are we self-deriving ideas?

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:35 pm

bahman wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:31 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:27 pm
bahman wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:21 pm

Yes.

That is one of the option. Electrons can affect each other since shielding is not perfect and abrupt.
So we are still left with a loop, where from the premise of the electron, reality exists through a loop.
Yes, we have loop.
So the electrons, as existing through electrons, exist if and only if they loop?

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bahman
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Re: Are we self-deriving ideas?

Post by bahman » Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:11 pm

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:35 pm
bahman wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:31 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:27 pm


So we are still left with a loop, where from the premise of the electron, reality exists through a loop.
Yes, we have loop.
So the electrons, as existing through electrons, exist if and only if they loop?
No. Electrons are relatively very stable particles. They however interact with themselves through other particles.

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Eodnhoj7
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Re: Are we self-deriving ideas?

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:16 pm

bahman wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 5:11 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:35 pm
bahman wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 4:31 pm

Yes, we have loop.
So the electrons, as existing through electrons, exist if and only if they loop?
No. Electrons are relatively very stable particles. They however interact with themselves through other particles.
And a loop is not stable?

Are they really stable if they interact with themselves through other particles considering these particles are an absence of stability of the electron?

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