Two paradoxes related to God

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

Reflex
Posts: 951
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:09 pm

Re: Two paradoxes related to God

Post by Reflex »

Let me begin again. No one knows what time is or even if it is.
User avatar
bahman
Posts: 8791
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:52 pm

Re: Two paradoxes related to God

Post by bahman »

Reflex wrote: Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:24 am Let me begin again. No one knows what time is or even if it is.
Time is real and allows changes. I have a thread on this topic in here.
Reflex
Posts: 951
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:09 pm

Re: Two paradoxes related to God

Post by Reflex »

bahman wrote: Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:35 am
Reflex wrote: Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:24 am Let me begin again. No one knows what time is or even if it is.
Time is real and allows changes. I have a thread on this topic in here.
And I have a whole book written by a physicist that says otherwise. Besides, neither of your scenarios apply to mine.
,
User avatar
bahman
Posts: 8791
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:52 pm

Re: Two paradoxes related to God

Post by bahman »

Reflex wrote: Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:48 am
bahman wrote: Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:35 am
Reflex wrote: Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:24 am Let me begin again. No one knows what time is or even if it is.
Time is real and allows changes. I have a thread on this topic in here.
And I have a whole book written by a physicist that says otherwise. Besides, neither of your scenarios apply to mine.
,
So bring other people opinions and lets to discuss them. But first thing first: Can we agree on the fact that time is real and allows changes?
Reflex
Posts: 951
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:09 pm

Re: Two paradoxes related to God

Post by Reflex »

bahman wrote: Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:03 am
Reflex wrote: Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:48 am
bahman wrote: Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:35 am

Time is real and allows changes. I have a thread on this topic in here.
And I have a whole book written by a physicist that says otherwise. Besides, neither of your scenarios apply to mine.
,
So bring other people opinions and lets to discuss them. But first thing first: Can we agree on the fact that time is real and allows changes?
No. Movement does not entail change.
User avatar
bahman
Posts: 8791
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:52 pm

Re: Two paradoxes related to God

Post by bahman »

Reflex wrote: Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:16 am
bahman wrote: Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:03 am
Reflex wrote: Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:48 am

And I have a whole book written by a physicist that says otherwise. Besides, neither of your scenarios apply to mine.
,
So bring other people opinions and lets to discuss them. But first thing first: Can we agree on the fact that time is real and allows changes?
No. Movement does not entail change.
Can you give an example?

How do you define movement and change?
Reflex
Posts: 951
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:09 pm

Re: Two paradoxes related to God

Post by Reflex »

bahman wrote: Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:28 am
Reflex wrote: Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:16 am
bahman wrote: Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:03 am

So bring other people opinions and lets to discuss them. But first thing first: Can we agree on the fact that time is real and allows changes?
No. Movement does not entail change.
Can you give an example?

How do you define movement and change?
Maya -- appearance (as opposed to mere "illusion").
User avatar
bahman
Posts: 8791
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:52 pm

Re: Two paradoxes related to God

Post by bahman »

Reflex wrote: Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:53 am
bahman wrote: Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:28 am
Reflex wrote: Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:16 am
No. Movement does not entail change.
Can you give an example?

How do you define movement and change?
Maya -- appearance (as opposed to mere "illusion").
Could you please expand?

What appears could be mere illusion.
Reflex
Posts: 951
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:09 pm

Re: Two paradoxes related to God

Post by Reflex »

bahman wrote: Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:02 am
Reflex wrote: Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:53 am
bahman wrote: Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:28 am

Can you give an example?

How do you define movement and change?
Maya -- appearance (as opposed to mere "illusion").
Could you please expand?

What appears could be mere illusion.
Not in this case.

"As opposed to" = "rather than"
User avatar
bahman
Posts: 8791
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:52 pm

Re: Two paradoxes related to God

Post by bahman »

Reflex wrote: Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:21 am
bahman wrote: Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:02 am
Reflex wrote: Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:53 am
Maya -- appearance (as opposed to mere "illusion").
Could you please expand?

What appears could be mere illusion.
Not in this case.

"As opposed to" = "rather than"
So, you believe that time and change are illusion. Do you have an argument for that? What is real then if all that appears to us is illusion?
User avatar
Dontaskme
Posts: 16940
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm
Location: Nowhere

Re: Two paradoxes related to God

Post by Dontaskme »

bahman wrote: Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:56 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:08 am
bahman wrote: Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:21 pm

What do you mean?
All concepts are fictions believed to be real.

True seeing is understanding the unreality of all concepts.

.
Well, I would say that we are minds interacting with each other true reality we experience. We build/create concepts next. This is a concept which cannot be denied.
There is awareness of the “present moment” as “present moment awareness” an opportunity for directly “witnessing” the unreality of conceptual thoughts.

What is “seen” arises and passes away in consciousness, not the “seeing” itself.

Concepts divide that which is undivided. A seeming paradox, albeit illusory. The thought “tree” is seen not to be the tree itself, the thought “consciousness” is seen not to be consciousness itself. There is no division between the tree and the thought “tree”. One is form the other is formless - they both co-exist within the same ONE seamless reality.

.

There are NO paradoxes or contradictions in Reality. Except in this conception, albeit illusory.

.
User avatar
Dontaskme
Posts: 16940
Joined: Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:07 pm
Location: Nowhere

Re: Two paradoxes related to God

Post by Dontaskme »

bahman wrote: Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:00 am What is real then if all that appears to us is illusion?
This has already been answered for you previously.. here it is again.

Go back to the source: before this concept of beingness, “I Am,” arose, what was your state?

I don’t know.

That which you don’t know, that is the right state.

.

The concept of you is the illusion -not you.

.

Ultimately, you are the proof that God exists, not the other way around. For before any question about God can be put, you must be there to put it.

You can BE without a concept. But a concept cannot Be without you. (What is “seen” arises and passes away in consciousness, not the “seeing” itself. )

Hence the illusory nature of conceptual thought..let’s be clear about this. From belief to clarity.

.


.
User avatar
QuantumT
Posts: 655
Joined: Sun Apr 08, 2018 7:45 pm
Contact:

Re: Two paradoxes related to God

Post by QuantumT »

Dontaskme wrote: Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:45 am Ultimately, you are the proof that God exists, not the other way around.
Wrong! Unicorns are the proof that God exists!
gaffo
Posts: 4259
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: Two paradoxes related to God

Post by gaffo »

bahman wrote: Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:25 am Here we consider God as temporal and timeless. We show that we are dealing with a paradox in each case.

Temporal God: In this case God creates the universe at specific time so the universe has specific age. God however has no beginning which means that He has to exist in infinite past. This is however paradoxical because one cannot reach from infinite past to now.

Timeless God: In this case there is no time reference for which we can assign the act of creation to therefore the age of universe could be anything which this is paradoxical.
there was no time prior to BB.

i fail to see a paradox.

welcome clarification of your point (I'm an athiest - so dog in the fight here).
User avatar
bahman
Posts: 8791
Joined: Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:52 pm

Re: Two paradoxes related to God

Post by bahman »

Dontaskme wrote: Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:28 am
bahman wrote: Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:56 pm
Dontaskme wrote: Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:08 am
All concepts are fictions believed to be real.

True seeing is understanding the unreality of all concepts.

.
Well, I would say that we are minds interacting with each other true reality we experience. We build/create concepts next. This is a concept which cannot be denied.
There is awareness of the “present moment” as “present moment awareness” an opportunity for directly “witnessing” the unreality of conceptual thoughts.

What is “seen” arises and passes away in consciousness, not the “seeing” itself.

Concepts divide that which is undivided. A seeming paradox, albeit illusory. The thought “tree” is seen not to be the tree itself, the thought “consciousness” is seen not to be consciousness itself. There is no division between the tree and the thought “tree”. One is form the other is formless - they both co-exist within the same ONE seamless reality.

.

There are NO paradoxes or contradictions in Reality. Except in this conception, albeit illusory.

.
How concept could be illusory? They reflect something in reality.
Post Reply