God and Evil

Discussion of articles that appear in the magazine.

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Serendipper
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Re: God and Evil

Post by Serendipper » Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:20 pm

-1- wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:07 pm
"Obey me or else you are ousted from the tribe" is actually a very solid anthropological event. It happens with all kinds of mammalian species where the individuals form hierarchical societies: humans, chimpanzees, gorillas, lions, wolves.

If you don't obey the leader of the pack, you are chased from the tribe; which means almost always certain death, as these species can only garner food and / or other necessities for survival, by community work.
Well there's your substantiation for Christianity.

Serendipper
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Re: God and Evil

Post by Serendipper » Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:55 pm

jayjacobus wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:29 am
jayjacobus wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:29 am
Serendipper wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:41 am
[what would give you the idea that I would kiss your ass in place of god's.
I did not say that and you have no foundation for saying that. So you are being unfair.
Perhaps I should report you to the forum gods if the moderators are gods.
First you issue ultimatum with the threat of the cold shoulder if I do not comply and now you up the ante with threats of tattletaling in hopes the higher authority will put the screws to me because I simply must be punished for not bending to your will.

Is there any question now where Jehovah came from? It's plain as day to me that he was created in man's self-righteous image.

Image

Serendipper
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Re: God and Evil

Post by Serendipper » Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:02 pm

jayjacobus wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:01 am
jayjacobus wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:29 am
jayjacobus wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:29 am


I did not say that and you have no foundation for saying that. So you are being unfair.
Perhaps I should report you to the forum gods if the moderators are gods.
Obviously Job was compensated but God was not responsible for what was done to me.
God made a bet with the devil and allowed Job's family to be destroyed, then gave him a new family after he won the bet, but would that be ok with you??? Would you be ok with losing your entire family and then receiving a foster family after God won his infantile bet with the devil? Apparently God hadn't learned how to resurrect yet.

This video puts it into perspective https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVgZqnsytJI

Serendipper
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Re: God and Evil

Post by Serendipper » Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:18 pm

Londoner wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:38 am
You do understand that the Bible isn't written in English? That the words we have are all translations?

The word that the KJV translates as 'evil' is not reserved for some abstraction 'Evil' but for all sorts of 'badness'. For example Job suffers from 'evil' boils on his foot. An animal with an 'evil' blemish is not suitable for sacrifice. People complain to God about their 'evils'; they don't mean 'about their own wickedness', rather they are complaining about their problems.

Sometimes 'evil' is translated as 'misfortune', 'calamity', disaster, as well as 'wickedness', but not always since in English 'evil' also includes the idea of 'an evil'. So in Psalm 23: Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for you are with me , we would all understand that 'evil' as meaning 'something bad happening to me' as opposed to 'I might become wicked'.

This is an example of what a sane argument about this issue would resemble. Isn't it better than all the hysterical ad hominem?
Isaiah 45:7 " I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."

The meaning of "evil" is discerned from the context, which is in opposition to "peace" and is analogous to light/darkness.

"God is not the author of confusion" (1 Corinthians 14:33), but he purposefully speaks in parables to confound the wise (Matthew 11:25)

So here we go:

But the New American Standard Bible gives the sense of Isaiah 45:6-7 more clearly: "There is no one besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other, the One forming light and creating darkness, causing well-being and creating calamity; I am the Lord who does all these." In other words, God devises calamity as a judgment for the wicked. But in no sense is He the author of evil. https://www.gty.org/library/articles/A1 ... e-for-evil

Matt 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.


Create calamity indeed!

There is an answer to everything. Any position can be justified using the bible and I've been doing it for years. I can produce verses to paint God in any light you want. If one verse doesn't fit, I'll find another translation or refer to the Greek or simply say "it's not meant to be literal" or whatever I have to do to portray what I wish to showcase.

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Re: God and Evil

Post by -1- » Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:51 am

"It may be illogical, but they believe man and the devil created evil via their own freewill."

This is incredibly interesting.

The statement is NOT illogical, although it goes against what is said in the scriptures. It is well possible, albeit not true, since we have scriptural evidence that renders the truth of the quote invalid.

The only (that I can think of) argument that one can raise against the truth of the quote, aside from hard-statements in the bible, is that many Christians believe that everything a person does, every person, every animal, every atom, is 1. doing god's will 2. satisfying a purpose for which god has created him / her / it and 3. powered by god to perform every act they do.

So if free will is still possible under the foregoing circumstances... which it is not, then man HAS his own mind, and he can create things that hadn't existed before.

One thing that comes to mind is the artistic creative process, that may be created by man's free will, without an intervention of god's foresight, guidance, and powering.

A man who comes up with a unique idea certainly feels that it's his own creation, not a creation whispered to him. The inventor certainly likes to take sole responsibility and all the adoration and rewards for coming up with a unique idea.

Could evil be such an invention?

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Re: God and Evil

Post by -1- » Sat Apr 21, 2018 6:58 am

Serendipper wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:20 pm
Well there's your substantiation for Christianity.
:-), well, well. I see this instance instead as a rare but clear-sighted insight into the forces of nature and adapting it for its own use by Christian mythologists. Not QUITE a substantiation for Christianity. Or transsubstantiation thereof, hehe.

I guess I see too much in this... the exclusion of a single individual and his or her exile that meant insurmountably harsh conditions to survive in, and therefore, death for him or her was not a distant concept, but a lived reality in Biblical times.
Last edited by -1- on Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:07 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: God and Evil

Post by -1- » Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:04 am

Serendipper wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 11:18 pm

There is an answer to everything. Any position can be justified using the bible and I've been doing it for years. I can produce verses to paint God in any light you want. If one verse doesn't fit, I'll find another translation or refer to the Greek or simply say "it's not meant to be literal" or whatever I have to do to portray what I wish to showcase.
I guess every man needs a hobby. Hehe!

I fashion myself to be the Whip of God, a prenom borrowed from what Attila the Hun. The meaning is slightly altered, but still, on target.

If you want to choose a name by which people ought to remember you, Serendipper, much after your death, what would that name be? A sort of epitaph expressed in one solid singular expression.

Londoner
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Re: God and Evil

Post by Londoner » Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:16 am

-1- wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:41 pm


Yes, sir. (Or madam.) I will now buy your story that "evil" means actually "good", as in God says "I create evil" means "I create good."
'Good?''

I suggested the better translation was 'disaster' or 'calamity'?

Where have I ever said it should be understood as 'good'?

You have created some fantasy of me as some sort of Christian preacher which is so powerful that you are incapable of reading what I actually write.

I haven't said I am a Christian or believe in God, or anything about God.

That is all in your head.

jayjacobus
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Re: God and Evil

Post by jayjacobus » Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:19 pm

You are right. The law often says, "Victim heal yourself". or that's what they insinuate. Sometimes you need to do it yourself for justice to be done.

jayjacobus
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Re: God and Evil

Post by jayjacobus » Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:38 pm

jayjacobus wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:19 pm
You are right. The law often says, "Victim heal yourself". or that's what they insinuate. Sometimes you need to do it yourself for justice to be done.
I'm not saying to shoot anyone, but sometimes the police fail to protect you or investigate. Do your own investigation, write articles and books, tell your story to family and friends, alert the public to unresolvable danger, solicit support, change the authorities' minds Don't suffer in silence. And don't let anyone tell you "The law doesn't cover your situation". It must or what does it do, protect corporations? Even if you fail, you will start to feel better. You are doing something,

jayjacobus
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Re: God and Evil

Post by jayjacobus » Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:12 pm

And don't forget your local and federal authorities. They have an obligation to protect. If they didn't do that, they are negligent.
But I am not sure how to get around the law. See, the law is the problem no matter how you look at it. There needs to be an authority that can judge the law.

jayjacobus
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Re: God and Evil

Post by jayjacobus » Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:45 pm

Let's say you are charged with a crime.

The prosecutor says you don't have an alibi. And you don't. So the prosecutor is INSINUATING you were at the scene of the crime. But you weren't but the jury hears the insinuation and thinks that's relevant. It isn't. it's totally unfair.

The prosecutor says you have a motive. You do. But you didn't act on your motive. So, the prosecutor is insinuating you committed the crime. The jury hears the insinuation and thinks it's relevant. But it isn't. It's totally unfair.

The law is unfair and it is unfair by design.

jayjacobus
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Re: God and Evil

Post by jayjacobus » Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:03 pm

I was on a court case once. I voted to convict. I am so, so sorry I did that. I was mislead.

jayjacobus
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Re: God and Evil

Post by jayjacobus » Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:54 pm

In a court case as i see it there are quite a few insinuations: by the prosecution, the judge and sometimes by the defense. Convictions by Insinuation?

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Re: God and Evil

Post by -1- » Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:27 pm

Londoner wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:16 am
-1- wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:41 pm


Yes, sir. (Or madam.) I will now buy your story that "evil" means actually "good", as in God says "I create evil" means "I create good."
'Good?''

I suggested the better translation was 'disaster' or 'calamity'?

Where have I ever said it should be understood as 'good'?

You have created some fantasy of me as some sort of Christian preacher which is so powerful that you are incapable of reading what I actually write.

I haven't said I am a Christian or believe in God, or anything about God.

That is all in your head.
It's not always about you, Londoner.

"Calamity" and "disaster" were translations of the same spot in different versions. If you did not suggest that, don't think that I suggest that you suggested that. Your ego is a bit larger than life. :D Just joking. I took those words because some bible translations (including the Hungarian and German versions) had those words and similar ones in meaning subbed for "evil".

If you are not a Christian, or you are, I don't actually care. You could be a Hotttentott, or a Zulkaffer, or a Visigoth, with their respective religions, or a sun-worshipper of Mezoamerican cultures.

We are not debating your views, or your Christianity, or opposite, or lack of. We are debating what the Christian Bible said as quoting God directly.

Stay with the program, please.

You are dragging your own persona into this. As much as I respect you as a human being, the debate is not about you or about your relationship with the bible. It's about what could be read in the bible and how it could be understood by a reasonable normal human being, as the message of an alleged god to the people of Earth.

---------------------

"You're so-o vain... I bet you think this post is about you..." (Tralala) :D Just joking, sorry.

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