God and Evil

Discussion of articles that appear in the magazine.

Moderators: AMod, iMod

fooloso4
Posts: 281
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 4:42 pm

Re: God and Evil

Post by fooloso4 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:12 pm

jayjacobus:
All the ideas on this thread are in the right direction, but the real practical question is "who will protect us from evil in real life". NOBODY is not a reasonable answer.
We must protect ourselves and each other. There is just too much evidence to the contrary to hope that God or some other non-human force will come to the rescue.

User avatar
-1-
Posts: 2833
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:08 am

Re: God and Evil

Post by -1- » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:13 pm

Londoner wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:22 am
Isaiah 45:7 " I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."
More usually 'calamity' or 'disaster' which makes more sense when contrasted with 'peace'.
Yes, do what all Christians do best: twist and turn the words of their believed lord, until the word they have gradually altered becomes compatible with the particular Chrisian's weltanschauung.

You Christians are the biggest bunch of lying cheating nik-niks: you don't cheat me, you don't cheat your selves, you cheat no man, child or woman, but you cheat your God, because you say "yes, I hear you, god, I hear what you say, but I shall take it in some other way than what you say, and I shall alter the meaning of your own, very own statement, to suit my agenda among men."

This is pure audacity in the face of your god, and pure intentional ignorance of facts that are in your face.

User avatar
-1-
Posts: 2833
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:08 am

Re: God and Evil

Post by -1- » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:16 pm

jayjacobus:
All the ideas on this thread are in the right direction, but the real practical question is "who will protect us from evil in real life". NOBODY is not a reasonable answer.
Is this the real question? I shall have to visit the opening post to see if this is the question, or is it only some diversion you are inventing to divert the attention of how badly you misrepresent your own god who has spoken to you verbatim in the scriptures, first person singular.

So I'll check the opening post now.

User avatar
-1-
Posts: 2833
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:08 am

Re: God and Evil

Post by -1- » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:17 pm

I checked. This is the real question:

If God is such a nice guy, why is there so much misery and suffering in the world?

User avatar
-1-
Posts: 2833
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:08 am

Re: God and Evil

Post by -1- » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:20 pm

The question has been answered, nicely, without any self-contradiction, by your god himself:

"I create evil, and I am mean and I am jealous." ("I.e. I am not such a nice guy as you make yourself believe, that is, I am not as nice as your misconceptions tell you I am.")

He says this first person singular.

The question has been addressed and answered by no other but by your lord.

Discussion closed.

jayjacobus
Posts: 891
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:45 pm

Re: God and Evil

Post by jayjacobus » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:35 pm

-1- wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:16 pm
jayjacobus:
All the ideas on this thread are in the right direction, but the real practical question is "who will protect us from evil in real life". NOBODY is not a reasonable answer.
Is this the real question? I shall have to visit the opening post to see if this is the question, or is it only some diversion you are inventing to divert the attention of how badly you misrepresent your own god who has spoken to you verbatim in the scriptures, first person singular.

So I'll check the opening post now.
I don't need God to tell me what to say and that is good because he doesn't. Who is telling you what to write?

Serendipper
Posts: 201
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:05 am

Re: God and Evil

Post by Serendipper » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:55 pm

-1- wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:17 pm
I checked. This is the real question:

If God is such a nice guy, why is there so much misery and suffering in the world?
I'll give you what mom told me: because they're living in sin. Apparently because I choose not to get married, etc, god turns his minion loose to kill all my: pets, trees, plants, friends, and future aspirations and to rectify the situation all I'd need to do is kiss god's ass and he'll stop killing-by-proxy everything I care about.

I can't do what Job did, but god knew that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVgZqnsytJI

Jesus is just alright with me, but jehovah is a saddistic maniacal pr1ck; a maniacal foul animal liable to leave you strapped with your bible.

jayjacobus
Posts: 891
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:45 pm

Re: God and Evil

Post by jayjacobus » Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:23 am

Serendipper wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:55 pm
-1- wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:17 pm
I checked. This is the real question:

If God is such a nice guy, why is there so much misery and suffering in the world?
I'll give you what mom told me: because they're living in sin. Apparently because I choose not to get married, etc, god turns his minion loose to kill all my: pets, trees, plants, friends, and future aspirations and to rectify the situation all I'd need to do is kiss god's ass and he'll stop killing-by-proxy everything I care about.

I can't do what Job did, but god knew that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVgZqnsytJI

Jesus is just alright with me, but jehovah is a saddistic maniacal pr1ck; a maniacal foul animal liable to leave you strapped with your bible.
I'm sorry for your troubles. I would offer you more, but I don't know what to say.

jayjacobus
Posts: 891
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:45 pm

Re: God and Evil

Post by jayjacobus » Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:05 am

Can a corporation control how you think? They believe that they can. They believe that they can MAKE you think about the law. The reason they do this is because they own the law. Don't allow them to control how you think. Think outside the law. That's how I am thinking.

jayjacobus
Posts: 891
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:45 pm

Re: God and Evil

Post by jayjacobus » Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:21 am

I am not saying ignore the law. What I am saying is don't let the law dictate how you think. That's what the corporation wants. Not you.

Serendipper
Posts: 201
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:05 am

Re: God and Evil

Post by Serendipper » Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:25 am

jayjacobus wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:23 am
Serendipper wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:55 pm
-1- wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:17 pm
I checked. This is the real question:

If God is such a nice guy, why is there so much misery and suffering in the world?
I'll give you what mom told me: because they're living in sin. Apparently because I choose not to get married, etc, god turns his minion loose to kill all my: pets, trees, plants, friends, and future aspirations and to rectify the situation all I'd need to do is kiss god's ass and he'll stop killing-by-proxy everything I care about.

I can't do what Job did, but god knew that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVgZqnsytJI

Jesus is just alright with me, but jehovah is a saddistic maniacal pr1ck; a maniacal foul animal liable to leave you strapped with your bible.
I'm sorry for your troubles. I would offer you more, but I don't know what to say.
Thanks, but I've been looking for someone who knew what to say for a mighty long time. My high school history teacher said he was surprised I performed as well as I did academically, all things considered, and I've been slowly realizing what he meant ever since.

The more fundamentalist the christian and the more they seek god and try to live "right", the more god dispenses or allows dispensation of hardship upon them: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/20 ... us-groups/

The cruel irony is their god doesn't exist and they're simply making life harder than it needs to be by: giving 10% of their money away to a hypocritical, wasteful, and overly extravagant churches; not seizing opportunities that happen to fall on the sabbath; getting married to the first Tom, Dick, or Harry that comes along because God is thought to bring people into one's life for a reason and of course having sex before marriage is the most horrible sin; and just generally trusting in some figment of imagination that is going to reward sacrifice, but never does.

Jesus said:

9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.


Christians are themselves living proof that it doesn't work, as according to the pew research, the more one seeks the righteousness of god, the more "those things" are not added unto them.

No one is more diligent than mom. She won't even talk to me on the phone after sundown friday afternoon because that's bible-time and the start of the sabbath. God shits all over her and always has and she'll be the first one to proudly proclaim how hard her life has been (in effort to guilt-trip someone into bending to her will). If a few crumbs fall from the table, she says "See? God came through! Praise the Lord!"

So I put this argument before her and she'll simply say "It's not God doing it, but the devil. The devil is trying to hurt God's people." There is no getting through to people like that because they have an answer for everything.

Jesus said:

34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.


So she thinks I'm full of the devil and doesn't want anything to do with me until I'm back down on my knees with my lips on god's ass. And by shunning me, she believe's she's earning brownie points with god. Nice huh. And the atheists like to give christians a hard time over Abraham nearly sacrificing his son while completely missing that christians sacrifice their children on a daily basis as if commanded to do so by Jesus himself!

Gurdjieff said "A man will give up any pleasure you like, but he will not give up his suffering."

There is a lot of truth in the bible, but damn, don't make a religion out of it; it's a dangerous book! The bible ought to be ceremoniously burned every so often just to keep things in perspective.

What Every Christian Needs to Hear https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbO0t3srgE4

jayjacobus
Posts: 891
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:45 pm

Re: God and Evil

Post by jayjacobus » Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:36 am

But Job speaks against power. Job is the MAN, not the power, not the glory but the man. Cite Job or I will not listen.

Serendipper
Posts: 201
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:05 am

Re: God and Evil

Post by Serendipper » Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:04 am

-1- wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:33 am
Necromancer wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:17 am

It doesn't proceed from the Bible that evil doesn't come from the Devil who may be primordial as much as God. However, God has created all the physical, the Heavens and the Earth while the Hell of the Devil is home to all (non-ethical/moral-rational) idiots! :D
You brilliantly stated what does not proceed from the Bible. What proceeds from the Bible is what the Bible actually says. And what the Bible actually says is this:

Isaiah 45:7 " I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."

Note well: "I, the Lord, ... create evil." Argue with that.

You don't have to argue with me or with any other atheists. Our arguments don't count to you, our reasonable arguments you simply reject, all you theists.

Just argue against the Bible, if you can. Just argue against God, and against God's own words, which say, "I, the Lord, ... create evil." Tell your god he is wrong, he is lying. Tell your god he is bearing false witness. Tell him he is sinning. Tell him he is evil when he states of himself that he creates evil.

Or else accept that he is saying the truth, which is, as he expresses it plainly and unmistakably, that he creates evil.
Christians do not read their bibles and I can refer you to more pew research stating that atheists are far more versed in the bible than christians, but christians receive the word of god from preachers and various idealizations based on what they generally regard as "good", such as babies having a free ticket to heaven which is contrary to Romans (either 8 or 9).

So quoting the bible in proclamation of what christians believe just doesn't work, but being raised in it, I can tell you exactly what they believe: God is all good and evil cannot stand before him. If God were to show himself, the whole universe would burn with fervent heat (mentioned somewhere in St Peter). God did not create evil, regardless what the bible says, but Lucifer was the musical minister; the entertainer, who, of his own freewill, turned evil and persuaded 1/3 of the angels to follow him where he was relegated to merely ruling over the earth.

There is the passage in Job 1:

6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.
7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.


Satan is the son of God who is representative of the earth (the implication being that there are other worlds with rulers/representatives as well, but we won't get into that.)

Evil entered the world via Satan who convinced Eve to eat of the Tree and she then convinced Adam and God had nothing to do with any of it (nevermind putting a poisonous tree in the middle of the garden with the instruction not to eat of it lest ye die).

I can tell you with the authority of a lifetime of experience that there is not christian on the planet who sincerely believes that god created evil. In fact, God is the definition of good. If you are not covered in the blood of Jesus when you meet God, you will burn with fervent heat due to being an evil man. Again, God won't have any part to play in it since it was all your own choice. Hell is simply being an evil person in the presence of God and that's why Lucifer wanted out. Heaven or hell is just in perspective: if you like God, it will be heaven; if you don't, then it will be hell.

Reminds me of southpark when Saddam went to heaven https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppNHaCN1A84

But I think the Jews had it right with their "Yetzer Hara" or evil inclination which is the left hand of God. Jesus sits on the right hand of God, but who sits on the left? Satan, your accuser. The defense is on the right and the prosecution is on the left and the judge is in the middle with his back to the wall.

Serendipper
Posts: 201
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:05 am

Re: God and Evil

Post by Serendipper » Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:41 am

jayjacobus wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:36 am
Cite Job or I will not listen.
Not sure who you are addressing, but if it be me, then I couldn't imagine what would give you the idea that I would kiss your ass in place of god's. He barks ultimatums and doesn't listen too, so y'all would have that in common. If you're not addressing me, then nevermind.

jayjacobus
Posts: 891
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2016 9:45 pm

Re: God and Evil

Post by jayjacobus » Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:29 am

Serendipper wrote:
Fri Apr 20, 2018 4:41 am
[what would give you the idea that I would kiss your ass in place of god's.
I did not say that and you have no foundation for saying that. So you are being unfair.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests