Virgin Birth Myths

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Belinda
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

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Dontaskme wrote:
Being free of ''me'' frees me up to explain oneness...but it seems that what ever I seem to say ,..you will always look for fault in it......it seems I confuse you...so be it, there is nothing I can do about that.


You do try. From something that Atla wrote I googled and read about advaita vedanta which I gather is what you write about. I think I understand now what you mean by 'nonduality'. As Atla wrote some time ago, the advaita vedanta story about nonduality is not the Western idea of the usual alternative to substance or Cartesian dualism.

Your use of language is confusing. Philosophy is difficult and that's why it's helpful when language is uncluttered and uses standard philosophical terminology.
Nick_A
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

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Dontaskme wrote: Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:39 pm
Nick_A wrote: Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:54 pm DaM
I don't live to be acknowledged.

I live to be free of me.
"To be or not to be" That really is the question. Some with esoteric interests are like you wanting to escape into nothingness. Others seek to be "free of me" in order to be: to become oneself - "I"
I found this in my Nondual notes ...I thought might interest you...please feel free to comment.

Logically, something can't both "be" and "not be" at the same time.
One can't create oneself - that would require you to "be" in order to perform the action, at the same time you can't "not be" since you haven't yet begun to exist.

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You are using the law of the excluded middle in relation to a vertical reality. It is insufficient
In logic, the law of excluded middle (or the principle of excluded middle) states that for any proposition, either that proposition is true or its negation is true. It is the third of the three classic laws of thought.
However the verticality of being requires the law of the INCLUDED middle where duality is reconciled as one from a higher conscious potential or level of reality. While I agree fractions are impossible without the ONE they are a part of, there is no reason to believe that that one and its lawful fractions do not simultaneously exist. The ONE and its fractions exist in the universal sense as I AM.
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Dontaskme
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

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Belinda wrote: Sun Mar 18, 2018 7:05 pm
Your use of language is confusing. Philosophy is difficult and that's why it's helpful when language is uncluttered and uses standard philosophical terminology.
But philosophy is only interested in the psychological aspect of the self..it's totally restricting from the start, in the sense that according to philosophy, reality pertains to a separate 'I' so philosophy is already filled with gaping gaps ..so why would one want to engage in a lie like that?

It seems even before a new baby is born, it's already had it's life planned out for it. It seems every new born then just accepts the world they are born into without questioning it. As soon as they're born their world is already decided for them, they are programmed to believe what every one else believes..for example..things like it's Monday and tomorrow will be Tuesday...etc etc...

Every human baby is born as pure potential on a human level..as beings aware of themselves..but then are forced into accepting the current belief systems because they didn't know any different. They're swept along the consensus story where everyone has to play the same old story over and over again...the treadmill of human life, same old, different day..year in year out where everyone just accepts it without ever thinking whether they could actually change the variables that is human life.

That is until they do awaken to what's really going on, when they start to get glimpses of real truth of who they are, they start to think for them selves and realise they are living a life that someone else has set up for them. It's like we are born with this infinite possibility ...but then we are squeezed into tiny little boxes, sometimes we feel so crushed by this tight conditioning that our only relief is addictions...addictions to the dictatorship, we become so dependant on it, our thinking becomes unbalanced because it's all based on a ''separate self'' that believes it has to be this personal separate I in order to be successful in this world..we don't think to look beyond that arena, to the bigger picture.

We are constantly being told how to think, which we then believe actually saves us from doing the job, so we get lazy and get helplessly swept along with the tide of other peoples ideas and thoughts and beliefs which don't really serve us, but feel powerless to change, but we instinctively know that change is for our own good.

In the believed powerlessness to change the status quo, we become unbalanced and overwhelmed, we lose touch with our real potential so we just accept that this is the best we can do, and nothing is going to change.

Expanding our awareness is about looking at the bigger picture and not just blindly accepting that this is the best we can do. We are pure potential and the best we can do with our time is to go shopping looking for material stuff we don't need or really want.



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Belinda
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

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Dontaskme wrote:


But philosophy is only interested in the psychological aspect of the self..it's totally restricting from the start, in the sense that according to philosophy, reality pertains to a separate 'I' so philosophy is already filled with gaping gaps ..so why would one want to engage in a lie like that?
The nature of self is of interest to Western philosophers.Most Western philosophers will have heard of the Eastern philosophical idea that Atman is Brahman, and many have thought about it. Schopenhauer was interested in Eastern philosophy.
It seems even before a new baby is born, it's already had it's life planned out for it. It seems every new born then just accepts the world they are born into without questioning it. As soon as they're born their world is already decided for them, they are programmed to believe what every one else believes..for example..things like it's Monday and tomorrow will be Tuesday...etc etc...
I agree.
Every human baby is born as pure potential on a human level..as beings aware of themselves..but then are forced into accepting the current belief systems because they didn't know any different. They're swept along the consensus story where everyone has to play the same old story over and over again...the treadmill of human life, same old, different day..year in year out where everyone just accepts it without ever thinking whether they could actually change the variables that is human life.
Cultures of belief and practice do evolve. Whenever some big environmental change happens people are forced to think again and those who fail to do so are comparatively helpless.
That is until they do awaken to what's really going on, when they start to get glimpses of real truth of who they are, they start to think for them selves and realise they are living a life that someone else has set up for them. It's like we are born with this infinite possibility ...but then we are squeezed into tiny little boxes, sometimes we feel so crushed by this tight conditioning that our only relief is addictions...addictions to the dictatorship, we become so dependant on it, our thinking becomes unbalanced because it's all based on a ''separate self'' that believes it has to be this personal separate I in order to be successful in this world..we don't think to look beyond that arena, to the bigger picture.
I dare say that most people don't awaken to what is going on in the cognitive sense, let alone in the mystical sense. People being squeezed into tiny boxes is what good teachers , good religions, and even good doctors try to prevent.
However the details of small social encounters between individuals, their language, what they talk about and how they say it, that's to say the tiny details of a culture are how we can build up a wider picture of human groups.
When individuals understand each other better is when we can see a bigger picture.Philosophy, psychology, and anthropology are all about how individuals understand each other. I grant that mysticism is another way, however mysticism has the danger that people confuse wishful thinking, or emotionalism, with mystical experience.
We are constantly being told how to think, which we then believe actually saves us from doing the job, so we get lazy and get helplessly swept along with the tide of other peoples ideas and thoughts and beliefs which don't really serve us, but feel powerless to change, but we instinctively know that change is for our own good.
You must be reading the wrong books and newspapers! It's great to rebel but rebellion is not sufficient.
In the believed powerlessness to change the status quo, we become unbalanced and overwhelmed, we lose touch with our real potential so we just accept that this is the best we can do, and nothing is going to change.
People who live their lives like this are attending the wrong church or are otherwise enslaved ,or are psychologically depressed.
Expanding our awareness is about looking at the bigger picture and not just blindly accepting that this is the best we can do. We are pure potential and the best we can do with our time is to go shopping looking for material stuff we don't need or really want.
I agree. Who would not agree?( Damn few and they're all dead.)

You see, you can write well when you want to!
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Dontaskme
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

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I guess it’s unavoidable, we have to think about what we think about...thinking is our story...without our stories we are nothing.

There is nothing outside of human language...the return to innocence is no longer an option ...unless we want it back...in which case there’s no going back to ordinary living...those that choose to return..are never the same again...they live in child like wonder for the rest of their life. ..and no they are not depressed or insane as atla would have you believe....they’re actually living their real authentic nature that’s their birthright....they’re in the good place...I’m talking from experience here...there’s no more suffering or fear.

I trust only in the one who is living life, the one who I am before my identity was born...I don’t trust in the one who is self identified....Because I know that one does not exist...

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Greta
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

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DAM:
There is nothing outside of human language...the return to innocence is no longer an option ...
Nor is a return to innocence desirable. Innocence in the weak and vulnerable is endearing. Innocence in the large and powerful is chaotic, unpredictable and dangerous.

Once we achieve power - and we humans have had plenty for a eons - we have a responsibility to understand what is going on around us (to gain knowledge) so that we don't do inadvertent damage in wielding our power. The more we know, the more we can use power for good or ill. The less we know, the less choice we have as to the impacts of our power.
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Dontaskme
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

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Greta wrote: Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:26 am DAM:
There is nothing outside of human language...the return to innocence is no longer an option ...
Nor is a return to innocence desirable. Innocence in the weak and vulnerable is endearing. Innocence in the large and powerful is chaotic, unpredictable and dangerous.

Once we achieve power - and we humans have had plenty for a eons - we have a responsibility to understand what is going on around us (to gain knowledge) so that we don't do inadvertent damage in wielding our power. The more we know, the more we can use power for good or ill. The less we know, the less choice we have as to the impacts of our power.
The only power humans have is the power to realign themselves with the true self, the self they were before their identity was born. To come into phase with their virgin birth their real self. The return to innocence, the return to yourself...the rebirth.

The only real power...IS


What Happens As We Rebirth Ourselves?
It can literally feel like being re-born. What becomes available are:

Often intense, ecstatic feelings of liberation and love, a sense of wholeness and lightness as the past is shed.
There is a sense of genuine openness and vulnerability, not the "I am about to be hurt" kind of feeling people often call vulnerability; more of a return to innocence.
The world begins anew and life feels fresh, exciting and to varying degrees, full of possibilities.
Relationships become the playground for conscious connection and sharing.
One's relationship to time changes, coming into accord with the magic of the moment and the true flow of the energy.
As the anesthetics wear off, deep feeling, passion, pleasure and spontaneity return to the body and soul.
The conflict, blame and separation from mother and father (and the feminine and the masculine) evolves into understanding, compassion, forgiveness and balance.
There is a shift away from the wounded child and adolescent patterns to more mature, spontaneous responsibility and emotional freedom.
The sacredness and playfulness of sexuality can be reclaimed.
Adventure replaces struggle.
Inner security dissolves fear.
Gratitude, appreciation and joy become a way of life.
There is a longing to return to the magical enchantment of nature and to explore the mysteries of life.
True imagination becomes the source of the future we grow into.
The profound peace embedded in the core of our being allows an ever deepening surrender into the stillness at the heart of creation.
There is a natural desire to share this wisdom with others and to be of service in the community.


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Greta
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

Post by Greta »

Dontaskme wrote: Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:36 am
Greta wrote: Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:26 am DAM:
There is nothing outside of human language...the return to innocence is no longer an option ...
Nor is a return to innocence desirable. Innocence in the weak and vulnerable is endearing. Innocence in the large and powerful is chaotic, unpredictable and dangerous.

Once we achieve power - and we humans have had plenty for a eons - we have a responsibility to understand what is going on around us (to gain knowledge) so that we don't do inadvertent damage in wielding our power. The more we know, the more we can use power for good or ill. The less we know, the less choice we have as to the impacts of our power.
The only power humans have is the power to realign themselves with the true self, the self they were before their identity was born. To come into phase with their virgin birth their real self. The return to innocence, the return to yourself...the rebirth.

The only real power...IS
I'm not talking about power by new age definitions but actual power based on more traditional definitions - the kind of power that can do great damage if the wielder is either ill-willed or innocent/naive. With the power to harm comes the responsibility of learning how to minimise the inevitable harms we cause in life. Innocence in that situation is not an ethical, responsible or considerate option.
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Dontaskme
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

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Greta wrote: Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:19 am
Dontaskme wrote: Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:36 am
Greta wrote: Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:26 am DAM:
Nor is a return to innocence desirable. Innocence in the weak and vulnerable is endearing. Innocence in the large and powerful is chaotic, unpredictable and dangerous.

Once we achieve power - and we humans have had plenty for a eons - we have a responsibility to understand what is going on around us (to gain knowledge) so that we don't do inadvertent damage in wielding our power. The more we know, the more we can use power for good or ill. The less we know, the less choice we have as to the impacts of our power.
The only power humans have is the power to realign themselves with the true self, the self they were before their identity was born. To come into phase with their virgin birth their real self. The return to innocence, the return to yourself...the rebirth.

The only real power...IS
I'm not talking about power by new age definitions but actual power based on more traditional definitions - the kind of power that can do great damage if the wielder is either ill-willed or innocent/naive. With the power to harm comes the responsibility of learning how to minimise the inevitable harms we cause in life. Innocence in that situation is not an ethical, responsible or considerate option.
You mean your not talking about new age solutions to man made problems....new age solutions that have existed since the dawn of man?

You are a bit clueless when it comes to reality.

Do you believe self identified definition of power is the solution to man-made problems.

I'm talking about what feels right over what doesn't...know that simple thing, and the rest of life will take care of itself, life is your teacher, it is intelligence beyond human comprehension.

Innocence simply means don't create waves in the first place, and to know it's only the ocean waving to itself...
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Greta
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

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Dontaskme wrote: Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:50 am
Greta wrote: Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:19 am
Dontaskme wrote: Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:36 am

The only power humans have is the power to realign themselves with the true self, the self they were before their identity was born. To come into phase with their virgin birth their real self. The return to innocence, the return to yourself...the rebirth.

The only real power...IS
I'm not talking about power by new age definitions but actual power based on more traditional definitions - the kind of power that can do great damage if the wielder is either ill-willed or innocent/naive. With the power to harm comes the responsibility of learning how to minimise the inevitable harms we cause in life. Innocence in that situation is not an ethical, responsible or considerate option.
You mean your not talking about new age solutions to man made problems....new age solutions that have existed since the dawn of man?

You are a bit clueless when it comes to reality.

Do you believe self identified definition of power is the solution to man-made problems.

I'm talking about what feels right over what doesn't...know that simple thing, and the rest of life will take care of itself, life is your teacher, it is intelligence beyond human comprehension.

Innocence simply means don't create waves in the first place, and to know it's only the ocean waving to itself...
I'm talking about "new age" as in crystals, chakras, homoeopathy and other pseudoscience. Good to see you are such an expert in the nature of reality. It certainly doesn't seem to be the case but I'm sure you know best.

The issue of power is that it can hurt others if we don't know what we are doing. So innocence - not knowing what we are doing - is not a great option for those with power. Refusing to learn for fear of tainting one's innocence is fine if one has very little wealth and power. However for those with the power to impact on others, remaining pure and innocent effectively leaves those lives are at their mercy to chance and the vagaries of their moods. No, one needs to learn what is going on - to accept the gift of knowledge provided by forebears rather than reinventing a solipsist wheel.

BTW, you do realise that other people - even scientists - like to do what feels good too, don't you? It's not just you.
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

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Innocence is not ignorance. Innocence is just the lack of attachment to negative emotions. If people were innocent then they could understand the logic of the virgin birth. But all this negative denial assures the continued state of ignorance.
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

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Greta wrote: Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:08 am I'm talking about "new age" as in crystals, chakras, homoeopathy and other pseudoscience. Good to see you are such an expert in the nature of reality. It certainly doesn't seem to be the case but I'm sure you know best.
But I've never included concepts like new-age, crystals, chakras, homoeopathy in any of my discussions, I have no association to such new-age dogma, I've never followed any guru or teacher...I've always listened to my own isness...you seem to have this already pre-conceived idea of what I'm talking about, and yet you are wrong, because the reality I talk about is the presence of pure awareness that lived in the human consciousness since the dawn of time.

I'm just not into new-age dogma what ever that is. The knowledge of oneness that humans share today is the same oneness knowledge humans have always shared since the the very first human...it's really nothing new at all, it's timeless knowledge.

Seriously, you need to stop and look at why you keep projecting your own ideas of what you believe other people to be thinking, it's not a possibility to be inside another persons thought processes.

If we all stopped projecting our negative thoughts into the external world, then perhaps we might even begin to hear the small silent voice within which is always perfect peace.

I do not submit to any special qualities in order to reach higher states of consciousness, I'm naturally high, and have always been like this since I was born.
We are clueless to the real nature of self as long as we parade around as separate beings.

A lot of people have been experimenting with all kinds of special magics and potions...but not me, I'm just a regular person, that listens to my higher self, the one that automatically knows how to be.
Greta wrote: Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:08 amThe issue of power is that it can hurt others if we don't know what we are doing. So innocence - not knowing what we are doing - is not a great option for those with power. Refusing to learn for fear of tainting one's innocence is fine if one has very little wealth and power. However for those with the power to impact on others, remaining pure and innocent effectively leaves those lives are at their mercy to chance and the vagaries of their moods. No, one needs to learn what is going on - to accept the gift of knowledge provided by forebears rather than reinventing a solipsist wheel.
You are confused as to what returning to innocence means...your interpretation of this concept is way off the mark ...and you're interpretation is not what it means to me.
But this is what happens when we try to get inside other peoples minds, believing that they think the way we think...when they obviously do not.
Greta wrote: Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:08 amBTW, you do realise that other people - even scientists - like to do what feels good too, don't you? It's not just you.
Well duh, don't forget to include your precious scientists ... anyone knows that science measures what is evident, what is seeable, and known, but scientists can't measure the conscious power that enables them to make those discoveries in the first place... can they?

All humans do what feels good, it's the natural state of being. It's the idea of separation that causes all the suffering and misery in the human.

Ever heard of the lion inside the kitten? ...innocence of heart, knowing where true values and principles lie... but possessing the power and mastery of ''self'' in the face of evil or dire adversity is called keeping your own house in order. Know thyself first, and only then will you know others.

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Dontaskme
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

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Nick_A wrote: Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:26 am Innocence is not ignorance. Innocence is just the lack of attachment to negative emotions. If people were innocent then they could understand the logic of the virgin birth. But all this negative denial assures the continued state of ignorance.
Bang on as usual, thanks Nick.
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Greta
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

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Dontaskme wrote: Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:25 am
Nick_A wrote: Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:26 am Innocence is not ignorance. Innocence is just the lack of attachment to negative emotions. If people were innocent then they could understand the logic of the virgin birth. But all this negative denial assures the continued state of ignorance.
Bang on as usual, thanks Nick.
That makes no sense whatsoever, especially when proposed by a pair who have shown intense negative emotions on the forum many times.

I see no connection between remaining positive and the "logic" of a virgin birth. This is all rather boring. You guys make vague comments and then when questioned you say it's all wrong - but never then explain it. A recipe for dull circularity.

I would also suggest that "innocence" is the wrong word for what is supposed to be expressed. Innocence has nothing to do with avoiding negativity. Zilch. Children can quite easily fall into despair. It takes maturity - a loss of innocence - to see past the game and retain a generally positive attitude through life's challenges.
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Re: Virgin Birth Myths

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Greta wrote: Mon Mar 26, 2018 4:40 am
Dontaskme wrote: Sun Mar 25, 2018 9:25 am
Nick_A wrote: Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:26 am Innocence is not ignorance. Innocence is just the lack of attachment to negative emotions. If people were innocent then they could understand the logic of the virgin birth. But all this negative denial assures the continued state of ignorance.
Bang on as usual, thanks Nick.
That makes no sense whatsoever, especially when proposed by a pair who have shown intense negative emotions on the forum many times.

I see no connection between remaining positive and the "logic" of a virgin birth. This is all rather boring. You guys make vague comments and then when questioned you say it's all wrong - but never then explain it. A recipe for dull circularity.

I would also suggest that "innocence" is the wrong word for what is supposed to be expressed. Innocence has nothing to do with avoiding negativity. Zilch. Children can quite easily fall into despair. It takes maturity - a loss of innocence - to see past the game and retain a generally positive attitude through life's challenges.

Greta, it is only your attachment to negative emotion that prevents you from opening to the verticality of being which threatens your treasured secularism . Since you are closed, nothing can be explained. You are closed to how levels of reality are connected inviting the life forces under certain circumstances to pass from one level of reality into another as they did with the virgin birth.

Innocence is not avoiding negativity but just not being a slave to acquired negative emotions. When a person is innocent and not caught up in acquired expressions of negative reactions, they become realistic. Then the mind can open to reality rather than remain a slave to acquired defensive preconceptions.
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