On the topic of abortion - an ethical issue

Abortion, euthanasia, genetic engineering, Just War theory and other such hot topics.

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Nick_A
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Re: On the topic of abortion - an ethical issue

Post by Nick_A »

Is killing a woman with her fetus a double murder?

If you say yes it means the fetus is a baby. If you say no, it is just a zef. It is hard for civilized people to tell the difference between a baby and a zef?

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=124535&page=1
Federal lawmakers are considering a controversial bill that would make it a crime to injure or kill a fetus during the commission of a federal violent crime against a pregnant woman.

The bill, which sponsors are calling "Laci and Connor's law" is backed by Sharon Rocha, the mother of Laci Peterson, who was eight months pregnant when she was slain in California in 2002. Scott Peterson, her widower, is being charged both with Laci's slaying, and the slaying of their unborn son, Connor, because California is one of 29 states with so-called fetal homicide laws...........................
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: On the topic of abortion - an ethical issue

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Now three of them no less. And I hope you illiterates pronounce the word fettiss (fett as in wet, iss as in hiss).
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: On the topic of abortion - an ethical issue

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Nick_A wrote: Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:23 pm Is killing a woman with her fetus a double murder?

If you say yes it means the fetus is a baby. If you say no, it is just a zef. It is hard for civilized people to tell the difference between a baby and a zef?

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=124535&page=1
Federal lawmakers are considering a controversial bill that would make it a crime to injure or kill a fetus during the commission of a federal violent crime against a pregnant woman.

The bill, which sponsors are calling "Laci and Connor's law" is backed by Sharon Rocha, the mother of Laci Peterson, who was eight months pregnant when she was slain in California in 2002. Scott Peterson, her widower, is being charged both with Laci's slaying, and the slaying of their unborn son, Connor, because California is one of 29 states with so-called fetal homicide laws...........................
How many times has a woman been charged with murder for ending her own pregnancy?
Science Fan
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Re: On the topic of abortion - an ethical issue

Post by Science Fan »

Why would someone think men can't debate the abortion issue? Does someone have to be a gang member to debate gang violence? Does someone have to be colored to debate civil rights for colored people?

Damn, talk about PC taking over the planet. This PC identity politics is what needs explaining.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: On the topic of abortion - an ethical issue

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Because it's none of your damn business, that's why. And your comparisons are beyond stupid. A better comparison would be to 'debate' the 'morality and ethics' of whether those with gangrenous limbs should have them amputated. Or whether women should be allowed to show their hair and faces, because many muslims find it offensive. Or whether it's 'moral or ethical' for women to have periods. Or whether it's 'moral or ethical' for women to give birth. Or whether it's 'moral or ethical' for women to be fertile. Or whether it's 'moral or ethical' for a woman to be pregnant.......
wisdomlover
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Re: On the topic of abortion - an ethical issue

Post by wisdomlover »

Science Fan wrote: Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:21 pm No, I actually don't see your problem with that list. The fact is that women did have abortions performed illegally when they were outlawed. This is a fact. It's also a morally relevant fact as such illegal abortions are often dangerous to the woman who undergoes them. The fact alone may not be outcome determinative, but I don't see how one can ignore relevant facts in addressing a moral issue.
I agree that's relevant (slightly) but not determinative.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: On the topic of abortion - an ethical issue

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

Or whether it's 'immoral or ethical' for a woman to be attractive, or unattractive, or fat, or thin.
Gee, I wonder if these things are connected somehow...? :?
wisdomlover
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Re: On the topic of abortion - an ethical issue

Post by wisdomlover »

vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:02 pm Because it's none of your damn business, that's why. And your comparisons are beyond stupid.
Are you really this angry a person? Your behavior is way beyond committing the argumentum ad hominem fallacy. I wonder if you are trying your best to be civil and kind to your fellow humans, while also being tough on them intellectually.

I think Aristotle was correct in noting that habitual behavior -- such as insulting and bullying people, in your case -- eventually becomes "second nature" and part of a person's character. But we always have a choice in what we do.

Don't you want to be proud of yourself?
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: On the topic of abortion - an ethical issue

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

wisdomlover wrote: Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:20 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:02 pm Because it's none of your damn business, that's why. And your comparisons are beyond stupid.
Are you really this angry a person? Your behavior is way beyond committing the argumentum ad hominem fallacy. I wonder if you are trying your best to be civil and kind to your fellow humans, while also being tough on them intellectually.

I think Aristotle was correct in noting that habitual behavior -- such as insulting and bullying people, in your case -- eventually becomes "second nature" and part of a person's character. But we always have a choice in what we do.

Don't you want to be proud of yourself?
Oh, the old 'you are such an angry person' ad hom. How cliche. What's wrong with being angry btw? Now you are boohooing about being 'bullied'? Well boo hoo hoo. If you haven't learnt by now that this topic incites anger then perhaps a gentler pursuit than talking about it, like knitting or needlework' would suit you better.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: On the topic of abortion - an ethical issue

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

wisdomlover wrote: Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:20 pm
vegetariantaxidermy wrote: Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:02 pm Because it's none of your damn business, that's why. And your comparisons are beyond stupid.
Are you really this angry a person? Your behavior is way beyond committing the argumentum ad hominem fallacy. I wonder if you are trying your best to be civil and kind to your fellow humans, while also being tough on them intellectually.

I think Aristotle was correct in noting that habitual behavior -- such as insulting and bullying people, in your case -- eventually becomes "second nature" and part of a person's character. But we always have a choice in what we do.

Don't you want to be proud of yourself?
It's nice of you to defend such a kind and gentle soul as SF. I am sure he will greatly appreciate it.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: On the topic of abortion - an ethical issue

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

...Or the morality of killing a cancer--they deserve life too. Or whether it's 'moral or ethical' for a woman to have sex. Or whether it's 'moral or ethical' for women to use contraception. Or whether it's 'moral or ethical' for women to forget to take said contraception, or for said contraception to fail, or for the passion and lust of the moment to cause her temporary loss of self-control, or for a woman to be raped....How unethical of a woman to be raped. She must be punished for this sin, and her shame shall be known to the world in the form of a bastard child spawned from illicit fornication. Amen.
Science Fan
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Re: On the topic of abortion - an ethical issue

Post by Science Fan »

Veggie: You are engaged in what is commonly known as identity politics. It's the claim that only people within certain groups should be entitled to an opinion on a topic, and that everyone within these groups should think the same. You have endorsed this view, by claiming men have no right to any opinion on abortion. In the same way, identity politics claims that only gays should have an opinion on gay marriage, or blacks should only be allowed an opinion on affirmative action, and not whites. It's basically a form of bigotry that refuses to acknowledge that people are independent individuals who do not have to adhere to any group-think. It's also an offensive view as it essentially replaces reasoned debate with childish shouts of "shut up!"

Abortion does affect men, by the way, as a woman gets pregnant with a man's help. Also, men have concerns for their mothers, sisters, girl friends, and how they live and are treated under the law. Moreover, it is begging the question to assume that a woman would have a more accurate opinion on abortion than men. How so?
Science Fan
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Re: On the topic of abortion - an ethical issue

Post by Science Fan »

Veggie: If you read back through the thread, you'll see wisdom made actual arguments and did not engage in insults on this issue. I think you are the only one here who has been making insults. By the way, the many women who want abortions banned, and there are millions of them, should I accept their opinions and also agree to ban abortions, because I should defer to their opinions simply because they are women? Because that's literally what you are arguing here.
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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: On the topic of abortion - an ethical issue

Post by vegetariantaxidermy »

You are clearly too stupid to understand my points (they must be too subtle for you) and I'm not interested in teaching grannies how to suck eggs.
There is a continuous stream of abortion threads on here, ALL of them written by males and, apart from me, only commented on by males. Without exception my comments are completely ignored, except for the odd moronic 'ooh, you are so angry' type of response. I'm well aware that there are anti-choice females, but they ain't commenting here, and the same points would be relevant to those misogynistic pinched-faced bitches (perhaps they think those 'wanton' abortion-seekers will steal their 'irresistible' hubby wubbies).
It makes it even more pathetic that for the most part those writing about it clearly don't have a clue what pregnancy termination involves, or have any knowlege of female biology. It's virtually indistinguishable from a period. No severed limbs splattering around operating theatres, and 'teeny tiny' fingers and toes' wrigging in their death throes. Late terminations are actually early inductions, and have nothing to do with the other 99 plus percent who have terminations.
Science Fan
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Re: On the topic of abortion - an ethical issue

Post by Science Fan »

Veggie: Go fuck yourself. You are beyond doubt one of the dumbest pieces of scum I've ever run across. I've frankly lost all patience with your fucked up personality, and childish insults. So, since the moderators here seem to find childish insults acceptable, then I feel no prohibition against telling you to go fuck off. You haven't written anything remotely intelligent on this entire thread. The only thing you consider as a thoughtful argument is an insult, so, go fuck yourself, since that is the only "argument" your dumbass can grasp.
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