Global warming is NOT a science

How does science work? And what's all this about quantum mechanics?

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henry quirk
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Post by henry quirk » Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:55 pm

The climate changes...it -- as an overarching system -- does this all on its own...it's a huge, on-going heat transfer/shifting machine...what man does may contribute to the on-going changes (accelerating what's happening naturally) but human industry is not driving the climate...our efforts to 'combat climate change' will -- at best -- slow down what's gonna happen naturally.

'nuff said.

'Dee-ni-yah!'

Yeah, sure, whatever.

Now, excuse me: I gotta go pour old motor oil on baby ducks... :|

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Re: Global warming is NOT a science

Post by Science Fan » Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:10 pm

Henry: You just made a well-known bogus science-denier claim. Here are all of the problems that you have: 1. While it is true climate changes, and naturally, it is also true that there has never been a time when climate has been changing even remotely as fast as it is today. Things that are now occurring in a century would naturally take tens of thousands of years to occur. 2. Due to the rapid changes, any negative feedback gets overwhelmed. 3. All of the warming for decades is 100% due to human activity. This is because every other factor that could have affected the climate during that time would have cooled the planet.

So, the old, climate always changes trick, does not work in light of the actual science, and not the made-up nonsense one can find on fraudulent web-sites.

FlashDangerpants
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Re:

Post by FlashDangerpants » Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:20 pm

henry quirk wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:40 pm
the science ain't settled, meaning it's premature to hobble industry
That reasoning also means it is absurdly reckless to keep pumping 30 + gigatonnes of CO2 into the atmosphere every year and just hoping it all works out fine.

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henry quirk
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Post by henry quirk » Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:08 pm

Pump out MORE, go for that global buuuuurn.

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Re: Global warming is NOT a science

Post by Science Fan » Mon Mar 19, 2018 9:43 pm

Henry: We are already experiencing the effects of positive feedback loops, so we do not have to add a single carbon to the atmosphere in order for temperatures to continue to rise. As ice melts, more heat is absorbed. As melting occurs, methane is released, which is even more potent than CO2 emissions. As oceans get warmer, more moisture occurs, which further traps heat.

The reason why lead melts on Venus is because of a run-way greenhouse effect.

The only way to cool the planet at this point is to take carbon out of the atmosphere, which is something we are not even close to doing at this point.

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henry quirk
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Post by henry quirk » Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:19 pm

Pump It Up Elvis Costello, The Attractions

I've been on tenterhooks, ending in dirty looks
List'ning to the Muzak, thinking 'bout this 'n' that
She said, "That's that, I don't want to chitter-chat"
Turn it down a little bit or turn it down flat
Pump it up, when you don't really need it
Pump it up, until you can feel it

Down in the pleasure center, hell-bent or heaven-sent
Listen to the propaganda, listen to the latest slander
There's nothing underhand that she wouldn't understand
Pump it up, until you can feel it
Pump it up, when you don't really need it

She's been a bad girl, she's like a chemical
Though you try to stop it, she's like a narcotic
You want to torture her, you want to talk to her
All the things you bought for her, putting up your temperature
Pump it…

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Re: Global warming is NOT a science

Post by Science Fan » Tue Mar 20, 2018 3:45 pm

Henry: Thanks for demonstrating a fact I have known for some time now: Science deniers can never rationally defend their position.

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henry quirk
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tuggin' my earlobe...

Post by henry quirk » Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:07 pm

I'm so glad we had this time together
Just to have a laugh, or sing a song.
Seems we just got started
and before you know it
Comes the time we have
to say, 'So long.'

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Re: Global warming is NOT a science

Post by Science Fan » Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:22 pm

Henry: Run along now, like a good little science-denier who cannot defend his science-denial points. That's why science-deniers typically post on sites where their comrades can pat them on the back when they claim all the elite scientists working on the climate are part of one big conspiracy. Outside those echo-chambers, sane people want actual facts, which no science-denier has in support of their position.

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-1-
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Re: Global warming is NOT a science

Post by -1- » Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:04 pm

Science Fan wrote:
Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:10 pm
Henry: You just made a well-known bogus science-denier claim. Here are all of the problems that you have: 1. While it is true climate changes, and naturally, it is also true that there has never been a time when climate has been changing even remotely as fast as it is today. Things that are now occurring in a century would naturally take tens of thousands of years to occur. 2. Due to the rapid changes, any negative feedback gets overwhelmed. 3. All of the warming for decades is 100% due to human activity. This is because every other factor that could have affected the climate during that time would have cooled the planet.

So, the old, climate always changes trick, does not work in light of the actual science, and not the made-up nonsense one can find on fraudulent web-sites.
Please don't mistake me for an anti-science goon, but 1. is wrong. During the last warm-up form the last known ice-age, incredible amounts of ice turned into water. Most folklore tales talk of a deluge that destroyed the world or their culture; because it actually happened. Huge dams made by ice, holding up huge mammouths of bodies of ice, turned into water very quickly, and almost all humanity was drenched from one day to the next.

I am not an earth scientist, but I don't see the polar caps or the Greenland permanent ice melting at such rate.

So 1. is obvously false.

3. I oppose this with the statement "uncertain, unverified." It may or may not be true. True, that we pump three gigatons of CO2 into the 'sphere, but it also may be true that the magma under Earth's mantle is dissipating more heat. There is no study made on that. It may also be true that it would be nice to cut back on emitting greenhouse gasses, but that's an impossible demand. Unless we introduce alternative energy sources, such as burning uranium, which the same people oppose who oppose burning fossil fuels.

Basically, if you accept that all coal deposits were once thriving rain forests, then you concede that life was much the same: kicking, alive and well, when the Earth's atmosphere was much hotter.

Why the big whine? The Earth is warming. Learn to live with it, don't spread fucking hate and try to impress your girlfriend and your Internet forum buddies by laying guilt on others that you, yourself, personally, are equally as guilty of as any other mofo on the planet.

Hypocrisy. I refuse to learn to live with that. I would rather that civilization ceases to be and we all burn up alive than to give in to the self-appointed preachers who try to lay a guilt trip on me.

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Re: Global warming is NOT a science

Post by Science Fan » Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:31 pm

1: I didn't get past your first comment, because it was so obviously wrong I'm puzzled over why you posted it. Show us all here where you proved my point about the speed of the climate change occurring far faster than any time in history was wrong? Go ahead and cite us the science that supports your position. You won't be able to find it. Mentioning that there was an ice age previously does not in any way prove my points wrong. Not even close.

Name one source other than humans that would have caused the planet to heat up since let's say 1970. Name it. You won't be able to find it, because all factors that would have affected our climate would have cooled the planet. The only factor that would have raised the temperatures was humans. Since the planet has warmed during this time period, then we know for a fact humans are responsible for 100% of the rise in temperature during that time period.

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Re: Global warming is NOT a science

Post by Science Fan » Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:37 pm

1: So I skimmed the second part of your recent comment, and discovered that you are also extremely ignorant of evolutionary biology, in addition to climate science. During the times of the dinosaurs, carbon levels were higher than they are now. Dinosaurs could survive in such climate, and at such carbon levels, because they evolved in that very environment. We didn't evolve in such an environment and those carbon levels are highly toxic for us. There are medical studies showing adverse health affects related to the current carbon levels we are facing. In any event, making the claim that because some evolved life form in the past was successful in handling higher carbon levels than we have today, that we should also thrive in such an environment, is completely absurd from an evolutionary standpoint. You may as well claim that because some single-cell organisms thrive in extreme environments, we can too.

Atla
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Re: Global warming is NOT a science

Post by Atla » Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:37 pm

Speculation timeeeee I love this subject
-1- wrote:
Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:04 pm
During the last warm-up form the last known ice-age, incredible amounts of ice turned into water. Most folklore tales talk of a deluge that destroyed the world or their culture; because it actually happened. Huge dams made by ice, holding up huge mammouths of bodies of ice, turned into water very quickly, and almost all humanity was drenched from one day to the next.
Well if you ask me: there is also some truth to what you are saying. When we look at all the flood stories from all around the world, we see one certain story repeated again and again and again. It's just told in a few different versions and with different names. The resemblence is such that all this seems to be waaaaaaaaay beyond random chance. Noe's story is also a version of this story.

But this story probably originates from Mesopotamia, probably from the 3rd millennium BC (maybe it describes a great mesopotamian flood from 2900 BC?). So how did it spread around the world, especially to North America?

Well it's so because there may be some really major lies in the official version of ancient history. I'm pretty sure the ancient Phoenician-Minoans already routinely traveled the world, 3000 years before Columbus. Maybe the Egyptians sent some expeditions too etc. And so they spread this specific flood myth around the world.

And so today we have the illusion of many cultures remembering the same event.

--------------

But with that said, if we go back further in time, there may have been several great floods.

The drainages of lake Agassiz, that suddenly increased global sea levels. The final drainage was a rather big one, it happened some 8000 years ago and may have caused a sudden temporary climate change.

Another flood may have been the Black Sea deluge some 9400 years ago.

And well.. yeah, there may have happened something very, very big some 13000 years ago. Maybe a comet really did hit the planet, causing great havoc on the long run? Some cultures may have been a lot more advanced at that time than previously thought, Göbekli Tepe is a testament to that. The Sphinx might have been built around that time too. Maybe there really was an early version of humanity, that regressed over time. Between 13000 and 7000 years ago, global sea levels rose some 80 meters, who knows what was lost.

--------------

Some of what I've written above may be wrong/inaccurate etc.

But on another note, all this only further seems to show that the current global warming is man-made. CO2 release, methane relase, deforestation etc. this is our doing, it won't just stop, we are fucked..

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henry quirk
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"I didn't get past your first comment"

Post by henry quirk » Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:34 pm

And that, Sci, is why -- eventually -- folks stop playing with you.

You're an evangelist: you just wanna preach.

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henry quirk
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Post by henry quirk » Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:40 pm

Earlier today, someone from the forum (let's call this person 'anon') sent me the following...

https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/03/19/ ... ing-scare/

...no doubt Sci will shred it to pieces, but then I'm not posting for him, but for other non-preachy types.

Enjoy.

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