Controlling the conversation

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Philosophy Explorer
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Controlling the conversation

Post by Philosophy Explorer » Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:54 pm

There's a sales philosophy that says you must control the conversation to be successful at selling.

Based on experience and plenty of testing, I say bull to the disproven idea. Logic says that a true conversation entails freedom of speech, not control and manipulation.
You can't force anyone to agree, that must come from within, not without.

My sales motto which contains my philosophy is
"The more I sell, the less I sell and the less I sell, the more I sell." I leave it to you to figure out exactly what I mean in its many implications.

PhilX 🇺🇸
Last edited by Philosophy Explorer on Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

gaffo
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Re: Controlling the conversation

Post by gaffo » Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:06 am

Philosophy Explorer wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:54 pm
There's a sales philosophy that says you must control the conversation to be successful at selling.

Based on experience and plenty of testing, I say bull to the disproven idea. Logic says that a true conversation entails freedom of speech, not control and manipulation.
You can't force anyone to agree, that must come from within, not without.

My sales motto which contains my philosophy is
"The more I sell, the less I sell and the less I sell, the more I sell." I leave it to you to figure out exactly what I mean in it's many implications.

PhilX 🇺🇸
respectully dissagree, most sheople are sold things that don't really need via smooth talking.

esp. in a consumer society where all are concerned with keeping up with the Jones'

--------I'm frugal (cheap bastard) - and EVEN I sometime buy sht i don't need nor ever actually use!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

not often, but too often and with a minfullness of............now just imagine others without my mindset (not as much as a cheapskate)..............they must have 5 times more useless crap than me.

sold to them by a smooth talker.

;-/.

Philosophy Explorer
Posts: 5636
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Re: Controlling the conversation

Post by Philosophy Explorer » Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:20 am

gaffo wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:06 am
Philosophy Explorer wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:54 pm
There's a sales philosophy that says you must control the conversation to be successful at selling.

Based on experience and plenty of testing, I say bull to the disproven idea. Logic says that a true conversation entails freedom of speech, not control and manipulation.
You can't force anyone to agree, that must come from within, not without.

My sales motto which contains my philosophy is
"The more I sell, the less I sell and the less I sell, the more I sell." I leave it to you to figure out exactly what I mean in it's many implications.

PhilX 🇺🇸
respectully dissagree, most sheople are sold things that don't really need via smooth talking.

esp. in a consumer society where all are concerned with keeping up with the Jones'

--------I'm frugal (cheap bastard) - and EVEN I sometime buy sht i don't need nor ever actually use!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

not often, but too often and with a minfullness of............now just imagine others without my mindset (not as much as a cheapskate)..............they must have 5 times more useless crap than me.

sold to them by a smooth talker.

;-/.
Since you have the final say in what you purchase, then I'm at a loss in understanding how a "smooth talker" gets you to buy things you don't use.

You imply about keeping up with your friends and neighbors. So maybe they're the ones responsible for what you buy, not the salesman.

Do you have a mind that can make decisions? Do you have a strong will? Certainly the salesman isn't holding a gun to your head.

PhilX 🇺🇸

gaffo
Posts: 1186
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: Controlling the conversation

Post by gaffo » Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:31 am

Philosophy Explorer wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:20 am
gaffo wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:06 am
Philosophy Explorer wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:54 pm
There's a sales philosophy that says you must control the conversation to be successful at selling.

Based on experience and plenty of testing, I say bull to the disproven idea. Logic says that a true conversation entails freedom of speech, not control and manipulation.
You can't force anyone to agree, that must come from within, not without.

My sales motto which contains my philosophy is
"The more I sell, the less I sell and the less I sell, the more I sell." I leave it to you to figure out exactly what I mean in it's many implications.

PhilX 🇺🇸
respectully dissagree, most sheople are sold things that don't really need via smooth talking.

esp. in a consumer society where all are concerned with keeping up with the Jones'

--------I'm frugal (cheap bastard) - and EVEN I sometime buy sht i don't need nor ever actually use!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

not often, but too often and with a minfullness of............now just imagine others without my mindset (not as much as a cheapskate)..............they must have 5 times more useless crap than me.

sold to them by a smooth talker.

;-/.
Since you have the final say in what you purchase, then I'm at a loss in understanding how a "smooth talker" gets you to buy things you don't use.

You imply about keeping up with your friends and neighbors. So maybe they're the ones responsible for what you buy, not the salesman.

Do you have a mind that can make decisions? Do you have a strong will? Certainly the salesman isn't holding a gun to your head.

PhilX 🇺🇸
we are not really talking about responsibility now are we (we are talking about the real world, history is our guide too).

ya, sure in the absolute "I and only I am responsible".

and i am!!!!!!!!! and am mindful, i do not usually buy shit i don't need - but have and do on occation). I know i am more stingy and more mindful than others and so safe in assuming they buy more sht they don't need.

why.

persuasian.

Goebbels and the "big lie" is apt - 70 yrs ago and today.

sadly.

...............

as for my neighbors i couldn't care less about their view of me (i care only of the view my friends have of me) - WRT to neighbors refer to my recent post in "the lounge"

I never had the complex of "keeping up with the Jones'" - just mentioned that because i believe most/many do so.

my person nemesis is myself - my inner voice - which convict me (and has nothing to do with other's view of me) - it serves to keep me on the straight and narrow when i "sell out" myself.

Philosophy Explorer
Posts: 5636
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Re: Controlling the conversation

Post by Philosophy Explorer » Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:50 am

You mention persuasion. Due to so-called "sales persuaders" (objection rebuttals), the entire telemarketing industry was ruined back in 2003 where between 1 to 2 million telemarketers lost their jobs (I learned how to NOT use persuasion techniques to increase sales).

There are finer points to selling to be sure. I am not what you would call a smooth talker. I have no natural sales talent at all. However my knowledge is second to none.

PhilX 🇺🇸

gaffo
Posts: 1186
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: Controlling the conversation

Post by gaffo » Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:57 am

Philosophy Explorer wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:50 am
You mention persuasion. Due to so-called "sales persuaders" (objection rebuttals), the entire telemarketing industry was ruined back in 2003 where between 1 to 2 million telemarketers lost their jobs (I learned how to NOT use persuasion techniques to increase sales).

There are finer points to selling to be sure. I am not what you would call a smooth talker. I have no natural sales talent at all. However my knowledge is second to none.

PhilX 🇺🇸
I'm not a salesman - the whole "Art" does not interest me. I only know to not listen to them if i value my money.

were you a telemarketer way back? your post seem kinda personal.

its none of my business of course.

i'd make a shitty salesman myself - as i would a lawyer (subjectivity is the opposite of my nature).

it ironic that lawyers (folks that make an art out of being subjective). ""graduate" to becoming Judges (who - the good ones - are meant to be objective).

I'd make an eccellent Judge, but lack the "Degree" of the lawyer to be appointed.

born objective.

----------------

not sure what your point is.

Goebells was a genious saleman - had millions follow him and his master.

brainstem sheople.

as S&G said many years ago "a man hears only what he wants to hear and disregards the rest"

Trump is proof of this today.

Archives
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Location: Houston, Texas.

Re: Controlling the conversation

Post by Archives » Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:46 pm

Philosophy Explorer wrote:
Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:54 pm
There's a sales philosophy that says you must control the conversation to be successful at selling.

Based on experience and plenty of testing, I say bull to the disproven idea. Logic says that a true conversation entails freedom of speech, not control and manipulation.
You can't force anyone to agree, that must come from within, not without.

My sales motto which contains my philosophy is
"The more I sell, the less I sell and the less I sell, the more I sell." I leave it to you to figure out exactly what I mean in its many implications.

PhilX 🇺🇸
I would have to respectfully agree with everything you've mentioned here.. And, while, as mentioned in the following comments of the original post, a 'smooth talker' who applies certain sales 'tactics', and does so with a certain knack for selling, can absolutely be beneficial to your success with making the sell, none of those tactics or 'smooth talking' should be done with manipulative or deceptive intent - such as to attempt to outright 'control' the conversation.

As well, I would like to mention that these scenarios in which gaffo is eluding to, are likely the selling of material and / or monetary product(s). And the relevance in that would be that, I find the discussion between what the original poster is suggesting upon the sell of information, ideas and / or beliefs in philosophy and the sell of materialistic items to be two, very different discussions; even greater is that which are the many differences in their highly numerous implications.

In conclusion.. I would like to say that 'smooth talking' and sales tactics or strategies are predominantly, if at all, beneficial in the material world. While the philosophical adaptation of this, I find, would reap little to no benefits, and likely only become hindered, by the inclusion of any 'smooth talking', tactics, manipulation or otherwise. And this, obviously, due to the strong desire felt by the prospect for the speaker (salesman) to be forcing the idea or forcing the convincing of said idea, upon them - something that is not a pretty color on anyone within' the realm of philosophic discussion.

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vegetariantaxidermy
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Re: Controlling the conversation

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:51 pm

A good salesperson is a knowledgeable and pleasant one, not same silver-tongued jerk who lies throught their teeth.
What's admirable about effectively bullying someone into buying something they don't want? I can see through a con-artist before they've even said anything.

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-1-
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Re: Controlling the conversation

Post by -1- » Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:59 pm

Control is a diffy thing.

My girlfriend is the sweetest, most malleable, kind, pleasing, wanting-to-please person. Hard working. Conscientious. Honest, upright, and controlling.

She controls me. I am a different person than how I was when we started to date. And I am happy to say, I am happy with the changes.

She never bullied me, or screamed at me or nagged me. Her control is much more subtle, invisible, unnoticed, but still, very real.

I love her.

She can sell styrofoam pellets to Eskimos, I often say. She sells stuff on week ends, and she is superb at it. She says just one or two words, and the customer is hooked. About half the time she never mentions the product she sells. She is a natural at parties, too. All men eat out of her hands in no time. I love her. She is a unpretentious social genius.

Control is not always applied by force. It is a fun thing to have, but when you have it, treat it with respect, because it is a powerful thing.

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