Gnostic Christianity’s hidden in plain sight secret. We must do evil.

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Greatest I am
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Re: Gnostic Christianity’s hidden in plain sight secret. We must do evil.

Post by Greatest I am » Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:16 pm

gaffo wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:16 am
?? I don;t follow.
Hi buddy.

Hidden in plain sight because most do not recognize that their actions, when competing for recourses and winning, has a negative effect on others who would thing that their lose has had evil befall them.
Greatest I am wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:20 pm
is the Gnostic Christian myth more intelligent than the Christian myth?
I know you do (as you probably know i do not) - welcome why you believe so.
Because it sees the people to people evil as a necessary evil and does not give people a false guilt trip.
I personally view both as equal in the "evil" department. since we've known each other now for a decade on that "other forum" - we both know that the other knows all well about the Theologies of both Othodox Christianity and Gnostic Christianity.
How do you get equal when Christianity wants people slaved to it while Gnostic Christianity wants to free us from organized religions?

Are slavery and freedom the same value to you?
Greatest I am wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:20 pm
The Gnostic Christian myth explains evil quite nicely as compared to what Christianity has produced.
how so?

via like below?
Exactly.
Greatest I am wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:20 pm
Gnostic Christians posit an evil God, Yahweh, because of his creation of the evolutionary system in place. This system forces us to do evil to others when we win competitions. We must compete to survive and thrive. We must do evil and that is why we see Yahweh as evil. In a more modern sense, not so much evil as a necessary evil. In the Gnostic Christian view, this allows hope that there is another God above Yahweh that might have a better system that excludes that evil. Yahweh then is just our idea of a system we do not like for it’s evils, and we actually hope to be wrong in our evaluation of reality.

Do you recognize that you must do evil to survive and that the Gnostic Christian myth is a better way to explain evil than the Christian myth does?

Regards
DL
all Hail Sophia!
You say that, while Christianity says that it was Original Sin for A & E to seek the knowledge that leads to Sophia/wisdom.

Quite the contradiction in Christian thinking that.

Regards
DL

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Re: Gnostic Christianity’s hidden in plain sight secret. We must do evil.

Post by Greatest I am » Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:23 pm

gaffo wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:23 am
Greatest I am wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:27 pm

Does the Exsultet hymn that call the sin of Adam a happy fault and necessary sin change your view?
tell me more about the above particular. first time i've head of it.

i welcome knowledge - though an atheistic Belial bound heathen.
I don't know what to tell you.

Christianity curses Adam and charge him with Original Sin, and then sing their hymn saying it was a happy fault and necessary to God's plan.

They want their cake and eat it too. All while saying that the Jewish vie of Eden being our place of elevation and not our fall is wrong.

Their vie seems quite stupid. No?

Regards
DL

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Re: Gnostic Christianity’s hidden in plain sight secret. We must do evil.

Post by -1- » Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:54 am

gaffo wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:30 am
as for Christian, nope. they will deny that the above - though it is written for them read! - is in the Torah and demand that God is good and NEVER had a part in making or even allowing Evil.
Christians are the most bone-headed, stupid, Goddamned stubborn people. They have no tolerance for anything. If you show them something green, and it is written in the Bible that that thing is red, then they will deny that the thing they are looking at is green.

They are truly fucked in the brain, them Christians. That is the most irritable of their ways: denying facts that are right in front of them, because they Bible says otherwise.

Then they wonder why people are abandoning their Christian ways. Well, if some belief system denies reality that's right in your face, so vehemently, then a lot of people must realize that it is stupid to follow such dogma.

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Re: Gnostic Christianity’s hidden in plain sight secret. We must do evil.

Post by attofishpi » Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:07 pm

-1- wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:54 am
gaffo wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:30 am
as for Christian, nope. they will deny that the above - though it is written for them read! - is in the Torah and demand that God is good and NEVER had a part in making or even allowing Evil.
Christians are the most bone-headed, stupid, Goddamned stubborn people. They have no tolerance for anything. If you show them something green, and it is written in the Bible that that thing is red, then they will deny that the thing they are looking at is green.

They are truly fucked in the brain, them Christians. That is the most irritable of their ways: denying facts that are right in front of them, because they Bible says otherwise.

Then they wonder why people are abandoning their Christian ways. Well, if some belief system denies reality that's right in your face, so vehemently, then a lot of people must realize that it is stupid to follow such dogma.
DOGMA? AM_GOD. www.androcies.com

I'm a Christian. I believe in the life and teachings of Christ. What don't I tolerate? Show me something that is green where in the bible it says it is red, thus I must believe the buy bull.

Don't tar everyone with the same brush as the Greatest nitwit does.

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Re: Gnostic Christianity’s hidden in plain sight secret. We must do evil.

Post by Greatest I am » Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:49 pm

attofishpi wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:07 pm
-1- wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:54 am
gaffo wrote:
Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:30 am
as for Christian, nope. they will deny that the above - though it is written for them read! - is in the Torah and demand that God is good and NEVER had a part in making or even allowing Evil.
Christians are the most bone-headed, stupid, Goddamned stubborn people. They have no tolerance for anything. If you show them something green, and it is written in the Bible that that thing is red, then they will deny that the thing they are looking at is green.

They are truly fucked in the brain, them Christians. That is the most irritable of their ways: denying facts that are right in front of them, because they Bible says otherwise.

Then they wonder why people are abandoning their Christian ways. Well, if some belief system denies reality that's right in your face, so vehemently, then a lot of people must realize that it is stupid to follow such dogma.
DOGMA? AM_GOD. www.androcies.com

I'm a Christian. I believe in the life and teachings of Christ. What don't I tolerate? Show me something that is green where in the bible it says it is red, thus I must believe the buy bull.

Don't tar everyone with the same brush as the Greatest nitwit does.
If you are a Christian then you believe that Yahweh is a good God. Right?

How do you get to that point when considering that God is portrayed as a genocidal God who kills so much when he could cure just as easily?

Regards
DL

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Re: Gnostic Christianity’s hidden in plain sight secret. We must do evil.

Post by -1- » Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:50 pm

attofishpi wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:07 pm

I'm a Christian. I believe in the life and teachings of Christ. What don't I tolerate? Show me something that is green where in the bible it says it is red, thus I must believe the buy bull.

Don't tar everyone with the same brush as the Greatest nitwit does.
I am not going into that debate. When I first started on this site, I had a debate with a Christian, who denied that people who call themselves Christian are Christian. He believed he himself was a Christian, though, despite calling himself a Christian.

So much for recognizing a Christian. Even Christians have no value for Christians.

I forgot the user's username, but it was a funny debate. He asked me for a definition of a Christian, which I gave, and when I asked him his definition, he waffled for a long time, at which point I gave up and got out of the debate.

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Re: Gnostic Christianity’s hidden in plain sight secret. We must do evil.

Post by Greatest I am » Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:03 pm

-1- wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:50 pm
attofishpi wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:07 pm

I'm a Christian. I believe in the life and teachings of Christ. What don't I tolerate? Show me something that is green where in the bible it says it is red, thus I must believe the buy bull.

Don't tar everyone with the same brush as the Greatest nitwit does.
I am not going into that debate. When I first started on this site, I had a debate with a Christian, who denied that people who call themselves Christian are Christian. He believed he himself was a Christian, though, despite calling himself a Christian.

So much for recognizing a Christian. Even Christians have no value for Christians.

I forgot the user's username, but it was a funny debate. He asked me for a definition of a Christian, which I gave, and when I asked him his definition, he waffled for a long time, at which point I gave up and got out of the debate.
I hear you and that is why I do not bother with those arguments and just say that all who fly the cross are Christians and all who fly the star and crescent are Muslims.

They all promote those flags when they put their money into their respective collection baskets.

Regards
DL

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Re: Gnostic Christianity’s hidden in plain sight secret. We must do evil.

Post by -1- » Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:37 pm

attofishpi wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:07 pm

I'm a Christian. I believe in the life and teachings of Christ. What don't I tolerate? Show me something that is green where in the bible it says it is red, thus I must believe the buy bull.

Don't tar everyone with the same brush as the Greatest nitwit does.
Okay, here's one green that's red for ya. Not by you, but by another Christian. And I find this sort of thing so typical.

This other Christian wrote:

You are applying human logic to God and there is no reason to expect that God is bound by human logic.
This is a real beauty.

This Christian is saying to me to not apply human logic to God, although God is bound by human logic.

Here's your green called red.

I did not make this up, I swear. This is a true and unadulterated, verbatim and exact and precise quote I gave you from a Christian. I did not make this up, I am not as creative to create such a beautiful and on-target example. I couldn't have found or created a better example myself. It takes a real Christian to state a self-contradictory statement which is so Christian in its spirit, devotion, and stupidity.

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Re: Gnostic Christianity’s hidden in plain sight secret. We must do evil.

Post by -1- » Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:44 pm

-1- wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:37 pm
attofishpi wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:07 pm

I'm a Christian. I believe in the life and teachings of Christ. What don't I tolerate? Show me something that is green where in the bible it says it is red, thus I must believe the buy bull.

Don't tar everyone with the same brush as the Greatest nitwit does.
Okay, here's one green that's red for ya. Not by you, but by another Christian. And I find this sort of thing so typical.

This other Christian wrote:

You are applying human logic to God and there is no reason to expect that God is bound by human logic.
This is a real beauty.

This Christian is saying to me to not apply human logic to God, although God is bound by human logic.

Here's your green called red.

I did not make this up, I swear. This is a true and unadulterated, verbatim and exact and precise quote I gave you from a Christian. I did not make this up, I am not as creative to create such a beautiful and on-target example. I couldn't have found or created a better example myself. It takes a real Christian to state a self-contradictory statement which is so Christian in its spirit, devotion, and stupidity.
Oops.

DO I EVER BURN IN SHAME.

I misread "to expect" as "but to accept".

It looks like I was the stupid one this time.

I am ready to admit that. I was stupid as I did not read the quote properly by myself.

My apologies.

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Re: Gnostic Christianity’s hidden in plain sight secret. We must do evil.

Post by Greatest I am » Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:06 pm

-1- wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:44 pm


You are applying human logic to God and there is no reason to expect that God is bound by human logic


How did you answer him buddy?

Did it include this quote?

1 Thessalonians 5:21 Test all things; hold fast what is good.

We can only test and judge with our human logic and reason so either that advice is useless, if we need God's reasoning, or it is good advice.

No one has ever told me that it is poor advice but many Christians do not reply, which indicates that they tuck tail and ran from the truth.

Regards
DL

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Re: Gnostic Christianity’s hidden in plain sight secret. We must do evil.

Post by Greatest I am » Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:08 pm

Pardon the bold. I could not get rid of it.

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DL

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Re: Gnostic Christianity’s hidden in plain sight secret. We must do evil.

Post by -1- » Mon Jan 29, 2018 9:41 pm

Hi, DL, after the huge blunder that I made, I think the only gentlemanly thing for me to do is cease and desist in these two forum threads.

I did think of "if not human logic, then what logic?" but the issue was not logic, the debating opponent was not using the right word, it was not logic that was "human" vs. "godly" but a biological process.

He used the wrong word, "human logic" instead of "human or biological process", so my argument would have been futile, because it was not logic actually that was at stake.

Sorry, good buddy, but this I mucked up, and I mucked up good. Mucked up all good and proper. No sense in trying to backpedal out of it. I made a mistake, and the best is to admit to it. I wish others would be able to do that, but hey, I'm me, that's why they are others, and they are not me, that's why they are others.

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Re: Gnostic Christianity’s hidden in plain sight secret. We must do evil.

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:40 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:54 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:13 pm
Greatest I am wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:27 pm


If evil is nothingness, it's dualistic opposite good is also nothingness.

The opposite of being is nothingness, evil is merely a deficiency an not a thing in itself. If the opposite of being is nothingness, then how can being being its own opposite?



Because I believe both to be real concepts, I reject your view.

How is nothingness "real" when nothingess is a complete absence that can only be viewed relative to being strictly in the form of gradation of that very same being?

You compared my Gnostic Christian dualistic view with Christianity and saw it as different.

If it was not different then why do the Roman and Orthodox churches claim it as a heresy, ie a deficiency in truth?

Does the Exsultet hymn that call the sin of Adam a happy fault and necessary sin change your view?

Not really.

Further, you see Yin and Yang as opposites, while I and some philosophers see them as compliments to each other like the front and back.

Good and evil, being and non-being are opposites. While good does not require evil as necesary for good to exist it can derive goodness from evil much in the same manner that being can arise from non-being. One manner is a perpetual act of self-reflection as an opposition to nothingess. Another is that evil cancels itself out leaving nothing but good left. A third is that all randomness moves towards order as it cannot exist on its own terms, if I remember correctly aspects of Chaos Theory argue this point.

This however does not equate non-being as something in itself but merely a deficiency in good through a process of seperation, or individuation, conducive to "destruction". In this itself, good as a unity through consistency maintains itself as ever present and constant, through these process of "change" or "movement". However Evil perpetual cycles through itself to cancel itself out. What we understand of evil, as inconsitency, or destruction through change, gives us the foundations for what we understand of "time" as continual movement. What we understand of as Good, or Unity, is merely approximate through the observation of movement.

However each of these movements, corresponding to an infinite number of platonic forms specifically those of geometric nature, while appearing to change actually exist perpetually.

It is in seeing the deficiency of unity, and the practice of vices which are conducive to seperation, that the fundamental nature of evil lies in the act of "ignorance" or not seeing being for what it is as a whole.

However we can see aspects the eternal nature of the good, or unity and stability, through a basic observation of space itself: The point is an ever present median that both composes reality and maintains it. So while we may observe "change", reflective of our own ignorance, we can see an approximation of the unity (much in the same manner of plato's alleghory of the cave) by observing the "point" as an ever present median of space which does not change in itself.

You can observe this abstractly or physical when viewing an object from a distance...it is reduced to a point. Up close is ends up as a point. From a moderate view it is composed of reflecting points that are all extensions of eachother as one phenomena or axiom...which in itself is a point. Intuitively we reduce realities and ideologies to points, as axioms, the must reflect other axioms, points, as an larger or smaller phenomena which in turn as an axiom it a point in itself the follows the same process of "mirroring".



This in turn, as a structural extension of the "one", reflects backs to its nature in observing a few simple facts:

1) Through the point everything is a median for everything.
2) The point is never changing and reflects itself ad-infinitum
3) As a median point, which provides also the foundations for all abstract and physical axioms, we can observe the observation itself is the center point and median of reality itself.
4) Ethically, as extensions of the "One" point, we can observe constant moral and ethical codes that reflect through its mirroring nature such as the
"golden rule".
5) The mirroring process of the point observes that we are all united through it by a grand universal symmetry.
6) It is the one fundamental axiom universal to all forms of consciousness and the foundation of the will as "focusing".

In these respects what we understand of evil, as a deficiency or ignorance, is fundamentally the inability to reflect upon one's actions, the actions of another, or the actions of the environment. Through this act of reflection we are better able to not only give structure to ourselves and the environment but without it, as one of the fundamental foundations of consciousness, we are unable to be rational as a form of justice. Reason is merely the application of ratios through a process of reflection that maintains being for what it is while simultaneously "birthing" it from nothingness, ie. "evil".

This act of reflection, as a foundation for reason, not only gives structure but orders the passion against anyform of extreme in which they become harmful. It observes a median between extremes and allows the will to express itself fully by preventing any bondage to one extreme or another. In a



Thoughts?
In regards to the yin-yang the philsophy eventually emphasizes a trifold nature of Good, Evil, and the "dimensions" which give boundary to the yin yang itself. The yin-yang, while observing a dualism for standard initiates of the philosophy, actually constitutes, at minimum, a trifold nature. So the yin-yang is not premised in a strictly dualistic nature, otherwise the continual opposition results in contradiction but simultaneously observes that dualism itself cancels itself out.


Regards
DL
Sorry buddy.

You made some points that might be worth chatting about but you have mixed what I put in response to our friend and are speaking more to his view than mine.

======

You seemed to get off track here.

My-----
" Because I believe both to be real concepts, I reject your view."

Your ---
"How is nothingness "real" when"

========

I did not say nothingness was real.

I will say that nothingness is a real concept and that that concept might apply only between sub atomic particles.
Blue work?

Anyhow:

How do you seperate a concept from reality? Assuming thoughts are based in a material reality, then the sub atomic particles we reflect upon are merely the same sub-atomic particles reflecting upon themselves...with thought (or concept) simply be a symmetry through reflection. In these respect the "concept" itself is based upon an inherent rotational symmetry...hence why most axioms are circular in reasoning and premised either in paradox or contradiction.

You see, not to play word games, the ability to seperate dimensions of reality (measurements) such as concepts, causes a precendent for further seperatation and we get a continual progression of "branching" arguments based upon a linearism which infinitely approaches an irrational nature (in quantitative terms point zero).

Truth as viewing things in unity gives a different perspective to how we view the answers.



You also put ----
"While good does not require evil as necessary for good to exist"

Good and evil are dualistic concepts. One cannot be considered without the other because if we are to quantify good, the graph we write would have to have something at the other end. We could call that least good if we wanted to but the world evil already exists and the opposite of good on our graph should be designated as evil.

Quantifying "good" and "evil" from strictly a numerical perspective has the qualitative problem of "why"? What moral imperative is there to quantify a qualitative nature...unless quantity and quality are strictly extensions of eachother through another median.

As to the quantitative version of your argument...Can 1 be observed without 0? Yes. Can 0 be observed without 1? No.


Some of your other points are so off topic I do not feel inclined to speak to them.

If we cannot agree on terms like good and evil then communicating will be a bitch.

If you had a particular point you wanted me to address, please put it in it's own post.

Regards
DL

P.S. Red is really hard on my eyes on my computer. Please use another color.

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Re: Gnostic Christianity’s hidden in plain sight secret. We must do evil.

Post by attofishpi » Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:59 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 5:49 pm
attofishpi wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:07 pm
-1- wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:54 am

Christians are the most bone-headed, stupid, Goddamned stubborn people. They have no tolerance for anything. If you show them something green, and it is written in the Bible that that thing is red, then they will deny that the thing they are looking at is green.

They are truly fucked in the brain, them Christians. That is the most irritable of their ways: denying facts that are right in front of them, because they Bible says otherwise.

Then they wonder why people are abandoning their Christian ways. Well, if some belief system denies reality that's right in your face, so vehemently, then a lot of people must realize that it is stupid to follow such dogma.
DOGMA? AM_GOD. www.androcies.com

I'm a Christian. I believe in the life and teachings of Christ. What don't I tolerate? Show me something that is green where in the bible it says it is red, thus I must believe the buy bull.

Don't tar everyone with the same brush as the Greatest nitwit does.
If you are a Christian then you believe that Yahweh is a good God. Right?

How do you get to that point when considering that God is portrayed as a genocidal God who kills so much when he could cure just as easily?
God is extremely hard to understand...and it IS NOT ALL GOOD.
I've no doubt that the God that has interacted with me for the past 20yrs is the same God that had interactions with the likes of Moses, Abraham, various witch doctors in Africa, various Hindu teachers etc etc etc..

God has been THE most evil thing to ever have happened to me. 'IT' does not fuck around where one has committed indiscretions in the past, and continues to live a life not on the path 'IT' wants one to live. It TESTS in the most evil way. TEST-A-MEN-T[/quote]

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Re: Gnostic Christianity’s hidden in plain sight secret. We must do evil.

Post by attofishpi » Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:01 am

-1- wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:44 pm
-1- wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 8:37 pm
attofishpi wrote:
Mon Jan 29, 2018 1:07 pm

I'm a Christian. I believe in the life and teachings of Christ. What don't I tolerate? Show me something that is green where in the bible it says it is red, thus I must believe the buy bull.

Don't tar everyone with the same brush as the Greatest nitwit does.
Okay, here's one green that's red for ya. Not by you, but by another Christian. And I find this sort of thing so typical.

This other Christian wrote:

You are applying human logic to God and there is no reason to expect that God is bound by human logic.
This is a real beauty.

This Christian is saying to me to not apply human logic to God, although God is bound by human logic.

Here's your green called red.

I did not make this up, I swear. This is a true and unadulterated, verbatim and exact and precise quote I gave you from a Christian. I did not make this up, I am not as creative to create such a beautiful and on-target example. I couldn't have found or created a better example myself. It takes a real Christian to state a self-contradictory statement which is so Christian in its spirit, devotion, and stupidity.
Oops.

DO I EVER BURN IN SHAME.

I misread "to expect" as "but to accept".

It looks like I was the stupid one this time.

I am ready to admit that. I was stupid as I did not read the quote properly by myself.

My apologies.
Ok, don't commit suicide over it, you might find you are resurrected, and that's a real pisser.

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