Gnostic Christianity’s hidden in plain sight secret. We must do evil.

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Gnostic Christianity’s hidden in plain sight secret. We must do evil.

Post by Greatest I am » Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:20 pm

Gnostic Christianity’s hidden in plain sight secret. We must do evil.

Given evolution and evil, is the Gnostic Christian myth more intelligent than the Christian myth?
The Gnostic Christian myth explains evil quite nicely as compared to what Christianity has produced.

Doing evil must have conscious volition. In law, they call that idea, mens rea. It is the cornerstone of secular and religious law and shows guilt and the knowledge that one is doing evil to another. When present, that is the only time sin can be applied to mankind.

Gnostic Christians posit an evil God, Yahweh, because of his creation of the evolutionary system in place. This system forces us to do evil to others when we win competitions. We must compete to survive and thrive. We must do evil and that is why we see Yahweh as evil. In a more modern sense, not so much evil as a necessary evil. In the Gnostic Christian view, this allows hope that there is another God above Yahweh that might have a better system that excludes that evil. Yahweh then is just our idea of a system we do not like for it’s evils, and we actually hope to be wrong in our evaluation of reality.

Do you recognize that you must do evil to survive and that the Gnostic Christian myth is a better way to explain evil than the Christian myth does?

Regards
DL

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Re: Gnostic Christianity’s hidden in plain sight secret. We must do evil.

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:46 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:20 pm
Gnostic Christianity’s hidden in plain sight secret. We must do evil.

Given evolution and evil, is the Gnostic Christian myth more intelligent than the Christian myth?
The Gnostic Christian myth explains evil quite nicely as compared to what Christianity has produced.

Doing evil must have conscious volition. In law, they call that idea, mens rea. It is the cornerstone of secular and religious law and shows guilt and the knowledge that one is doing evil to another. When present, that is the only time sin can be applied to mankind.

Gnostic Christians posit an evil God, Yahweh, because of his creation of the evolutionary system in place. This system forces us to do evil to others when we win competitions. We must compete to survive and thrive. We must do evil and that is why we see Yahweh as evil. In a more modern sense, not so much evil as a necessary evil. In the Gnostic Christian view, this allows hope that there is another God above Yahweh that might have a better system that excludes that evil. Yahweh then is just our idea of a system we do not like for it’s evils, and we actually hope to be wrong in our evaluation of reality.

Do you recognize that you must do evil to survive and that the Gnostic Christian myth is a better way to explain evil than the Christian myth does?

Regards
DL
Gnosticism is premised on an inherent tension resulting from a necessary dualism and in these respects can never really achieve either the peace or stability it claims as "warfare" of either a spiritual, intellectual or physical nature is not unavoidable but necessary.

The differ between it and standard Chrisitianity in one respect is one of necessity. Free will is necessary preserved under standard Christian doctrine where the individual has a choice between good and evil, and any failure will be atoned for through an act of generosity or mercy given by God on his behalf. The gnostic doctrine however requires the dualism, and eliminates the necessity of free will as both and evil are necessary in themselves.

If one looks at evil as merely a deficiency in being through action or intention a contradiction occurs within Gnosticism as it claims this evil in itself is necessary. In simpler terms "evil" or "non-being" is necessary. The problem occurs in that evil is not anything but rather a deficiency and in these respects Gnosticism hold in high regard the practice of "nothingness" which in itself is "nothing"...not even necessity itself. This is considering necessity is conducive to being as necessity is an extension of being. In order to exist one must reach their necessity. In simpler terms one must eradicate nothing through "being", which in itself is expressed through virtues conducive to life such as generosity, etc.

Evil is merely nothingess, and in these regards it is not a thing in itself like the gnostics claim it is.

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Re: Gnostic Christianity’s hidden in plain sight secret. We must do evil.

Post by Necromancer » Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:41 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:20 pm
Gnostic Christianity’s hidden in plain sight secret. We must do evil.

Given evolution and evil, is the Gnostic Christian myth more intelligent than the Christian myth?
The Gnostic Christian myth explains evil quite nicely as compared to what Christianity has produced.

Doing evil must have conscious volition. In law, they call that idea, mens rea. It is the cornerstone of secular and religious law and shows guilt and the knowledge that one is doing evil to another. When present, that is the only time sin can be applied to mankind.

Gnostic Christians posit an evil God, Yahweh, because of his creation of the evolutionary system in place. This system forces us to do evil to others when we win competitions. We must compete to survive and thrive. We must do evil and that is why we see Yahweh as evil. In a more modern sense, not so much evil as a necessary evil. In the Gnostic Christian view, this allows hope that there is another God above Yahweh that might have a better system that excludes that evil. Yahweh then is just our idea of a system we do not like for it’s evils, and we actually hope to be wrong in our evaluation of reality.

Do you recognize that you must do evil to survive and that the Gnostic Christian myth is a better way to explain evil than the Christian myth does?

Regards
DL
The Devil is making us do evil, mind you!
God: goodness of the Light and Devil: evil of the Darkness!
Genesis 1 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV:
"3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day." (Suggesting primordial evil.)

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Re: Gnostic Christianity’s hidden in plain sight secret. We must do evil.

Post by Greatest I am » Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:27 pm

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:46 pm
Greatest I am wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:20 pm
Gnostic Christianity’s hidden in plain sight secret. We must do evil.

Given evolution and evil, is the Gnostic Christian myth more intelligent than the Christian myth?
The Gnostic Christian myth explains evil quite nicely as compared to what Christianity has produced.

Doing evil must have conscious volition. In law, they call that idea, mens rea. It is the cornerstone of secular and religious law and shows guilt and the knowledge that one is doing evil to another. When present, that is the only time sin can be applied to mankind.

Gnostic Christians posit an evil God, Yahweh, because of his creation of the evolutionary system in place. This system forces us to do evil to others when we win competitions. We must compete to survive and thrive. We must do evil and that is why we see Yahweh as evil. In a more modern sense, not so much evil as a necessary evil. In the Gnostic Christian view, this allows hope that there is another God above Yahweh that might have a better system that excludes that evil. Yahweh then is just our idea of a system we do not like for it’s evils, and we actually hope to be wrong in our evaluation of reality.

Do you recognize that you must do evil to survive and that the Gnostic Christian myth is a better way to explain evil than the Christian myth does?

Regards
DL
Gnosticism is premised on an inherent tension resulting from a necessary dualism and in these respects can never really achieve either the peace or stability it claims as "warfare" of either a spiritual, intellectual or physical nature is not unavoidable but necessary.

The differ between it and standard Chrisitianity in one respect is one of necessity. Free will is necessary preserved under standard Christian doctrine where the individual has a choice between good and evil, and any failure will be atoned for through an act of generosity or mercy given by God on his behalf. The gnostic doctrine however requires the dualism, and eliminates the necessity of free will as both and evil are necessary in themselves.

If one looks at evil as merely a deficiency in being through action or intention a contradiction occurs within Gnosticism as it claims this evil in itself is necessary. In simpler terms "evil" or "non-being" is necessary. The problem occurs in that evil is not anything but rather a deficiency and in these respects Gnosticism hold in high regard the practice of "nothingness" which in itself is "nothing"...not even necessity itself. This is considering necessity is conducive to being as necessity is an extension of being. In order to exist one must reach their necessity. In simpler terms one must eradicate nothing through "being", which in itself is expressed through virtues conducive to life such as generosity, etc.

Evil is merely nothingess, and in these regards it is not a thing in itself like the gnostics claim it is.
If evil is nothingness, it's dualistic opposite good is also nothingness. Because I believe both to be real concepts, I reject your view.

You compared my Gnostic Christian dualistic view with Christianity and saw it as different.

Does the Exsultet hymn that call the sin of Adam a happy fault and necessary sin change your view?

Further, you see Yin and Yang as opposites, while I and some philosophers see them as compliments to each other like the front and back.

Thoughts?

Regards
DL

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Re: Gnostic Christianity’s hidden in plain sight secret. We must do evil.

Post by Greatest I am » Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:30 pm

Necromancer wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:41 pm
Greatest I am wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:20 pm
Gnostic Christianity’s hidden in plain sight secret. We must do evil.

Given evolution and evil, is the Gnostic Christian myth more intelligent than the Christian myth?
The Gnostic Christian myth explains evil quite nicely as compared to what Christianity has produced.

Doing evil must have conscious volition. In law, they call that idea, mens rea. It is the cornerstone of secular and religious law and shows guilt and the knowledge that one is doing evil to another. When present, that is the only time sin can be applied to mankind.

Gnostic Christians posit an evil God, Yahweh, because of his creation of the evolutionary system in place. This system forces us to do evil to others when we win competitions. We must compete to survive and thrive. We must do evil and that is why we see Yahweh as evil. In a more modern sense, not so much evil as a necessary evil. In the Gnostic Christian view, this allows hope that there is another God above Yahweh that might have a better system that excludes that evil. Yahweh then is just our idea of a system we do not like for it’s evils, and we actually hope to be wrong in our evaluation of reality.

Do you recognize that you must do evil to survive and that the Gnostic Christian myth is a better way to explain evil than the Christian myth does?

Regards
DL
The Devil is making us do evil, mind you!
God: goodness of the Light and Devil: evil of the Darkness!
Genesis 1 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV:
"3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day." (Suggesting primordial evil.)
Evolution and duality are primordial. Right?

Regards
DL

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Re: Gnostic Christianity’s hidden in plain sight secret. We must do evil.

Post by Necromancer » Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:51 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:30 pm
Evolution and duality are primordial. Right?

Regards
DL
I have no opinion on that. Evolution and duality require the carnal, the life outside God's domain. Unknown how it relates really. :D

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Re: Gnostic Christianity’s hidden in plain sight secret. We must do evil.

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:13 pm

Greatest I am wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:27 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:46 pm
Greatest I am wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:20 pm
Gnostic Christianity’s hidden in plain sight secret. We must do evil.

Given evolution and evil, is the Gnostic Christian myth more intelligent than the Christian myth?
The Gnostic Christian myth explains evil quite nicely as compared to what Christianity has produced.

Doing evil must have conscious volition. In law, they call that idea, mens rea. It is the cornerstone of secular and religious law and shows guilt and the knowledge that one is doing evil to another. When present, that is the only time sin can be applied to mankind.

Gnostic Christians posit an evil God, Yahweh, because of his creation of the evolutionary system in place. This system forces us to do evil to others when we win competitions. We must compete to survive and thrive. We must do evil and that is why we see Yahweh as evil. In a more modern sense, not so much evil as a necessary evil. In the Gnostic Christian view, this allows hope that there is another God above Yahweh that might have a better system that excludes that evil. Yahweh then is just our idea of a system we do not like for it’s evils, and we actually hope to be wrong in our evaluation of reality.

Do you recognize that you must do evil to survive and that the Gnostic Christian myth is a better way to explain evil than the Christian myth does?

Regards
DL
Gnosticism is premised on an inherent tension resulting from a necessary dualism and in these respects can never really achieve either the peace or stability it claims as "warfare" of either a spiritual, intellectual or physical nature is not unavoidable but necessary.

The differ between it and standard Chrisitianity in one respect is one of necessity. Free will is necessary preserved under standard Christian doctrine where the individual has a choice between good and evil, and any failure will be atoned for through an act of generosity or mercy given by God on his behalf. The gnostic doctrine however requires the dualism, and eliminates the necessity of free will as both and evil are necessary in themselves.

If one looks at evil as merely a deficiency in being through action or intention a contradiction occurs within Gnosticism as it claims this evil in itself is necessary. In simpler terms "evil" or "non-being" is necessary. The problem occurs in that evil is not anything but rather a deficiency and in these respects Gnosticism hold in high regard the practice of "nothingness" which in itself is "nothing"...not even necessity itself. This is considering necessity is conducive to being as necessity is an extension of being. In order to exist one must reach their necessity. In simpler terms one must eradicate nothing through "being", which in itself is expressed through virtues conducive to life such as generosity, etc.

Evil is merely nothingess, and in these regards it is not a thing in itself like the gnostics claim it is.
If evil is nothingness, it's dualistic opposite good is also nothingness.

The opposite of being is nothingness, evil is merely a deficiency an not a thing in itself. If the opposite of being is nothingness, then how can being being its own opposite?



Because I believe both to be real concepts, I reject your view.

How is nothingness "real" when nothingess is a complete absence that can only be viewed relative to being strictly in the form of gradation of that very same being?

You compared my Gnostic Christian dualistic view with Christianity and saw it as different.

If it was not different then why do the Roman and Orthodox churches claim it as a heresy, ie a deficiency in truth?

Does the Exsultet hymn that call the sin of Adam a happy fault and necessary sin change your view?

Not really.

Further, you see Yin and Yang as opposites, while I and some philosophers see them as compliments to each other like the front and back.

Good and evil, being and non-being are opposites. While good does not require evil as necesary for good to exist it can derive goodness from evil much in the same manner that being can arise from non-being. One manner is a perpetual act of self-reflection as an opposition to nothingess. Another is that evil cancels itself out leaving nothing but good left. A third is that all randomness moves towards order as it cannot exist on its own terms, if I remember correctly aspects of Chaos Theory argue this point.

This however does not equate non-being as something in itself but merely a deficiency in good through a process of seperation, or individuation, conducive to "destruction". In this itself, good as a unity through consistency maintains itself as ever present and constant, through these process of "change" or "movement". However Evil perpetual cycles through itself to cancel itself out. What we understand of evil, as inconsitency, or destruction through change, gives us the foundations for what we understand of "time" as continual movement. What we understand of as Good, or Unity, is merely approximate through the observation of movement.

However each of these movements, corresponding to an infinite number of platonic forms specifically those of geometric nature, while appearing to change actually exist perpetually.

It is in seeing the deficiency of unity, and the practice of vices which are conducive to seperation, that the fundamental nature of evil lies in the act of "ignorance" or not seeing being for what it is as a whole.

However we can see aspects the eternal nature of the good, or unity and stability, through a basic observation of space itself: The point is an ever present median that both composes reality and maintains it. So while we may observe "change", reflective of our own ignorance, we can see an approximation of the unity (much in the same manner of plato's alleghory of the cave) by observing the "point" as an ever present median of space which does not change in itself.

You can observe this abstractly or physical when viewing an object from a distance...it is reduced to a point. Up close is ends up as a point. From a moderate view it is composed of reflecting points that are all extensions of eachother as one phenomena or axiom...which in itself is a point. Intuitively we reduce realities and ideologies to points, as axioms, the must reflect other axioms, points, as an larger or smaller phenomena which in turn as an axiom it a point in itself the follows the same process of "mirroring".



This in turn, as a structural extension of the "one", reflects backs to its nature in observing a few simple facts:

1) Through the point everything is a median for everything.
2) The point is never changing and reflects itself ad-infinitum
3) As a median point, which provides also the foundations for all abstract and physical axioms, we can observe the observation itself is the center point and median of reality itself.
4) Ethically, as extensions of the "One" point, we can observe constant moral and ethical codes that reflect through its mirroring nature such as the
"golden rule".
5) The mirroring process of the point observes that we are all united through it by a grand universal symmetry.
6) It is the one fundamental axiom universal to all forms of consciousness and the foundation of the will as "focusing".

In these respects what we understand of evil, as a deficiency or ignorance, is fundamentally the inability to reflect upon one's actions, the actions of another, or the actions of the environment. Through this act of reflection we are better able to not only give structure to ourselves and the environment but without it, as one of the fundamental foundations of consciousness, we are unable to be rational as a form of justice. Reason is merely the application of ratios through a process of reflection that maintains being for what it is while simultaneously "birthing" it from nothingness, ie. "evil".

This act of reflection, as a foundation for reason, not only gives structure but orders the passion against anyform of extreme in which they become harmful. It observes a median between extremes and allows the will to express itself fully by preventing any bondage to one extreme or another. In a



Thoughts?
In regards to the yin-yang the philsophy eventually emphasizes a trifold nature of Good, Evil, and the "dimensions" which give boundary to the yin yang itself. The yin-yang, while observing a dualism for standard initiates of the philosophy, actually constitutes, at minimum, a trifold nature. So the yin-yang is not premised in a strictly dualistic nature, otherwise the continual opposition results in contradiction but simultaneously observes that dualism itself cancels itself out.


Regards
DL

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Re: Gnostic Christianity’s hidden in plain sight secret. We must do evil.

Post by -1- » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:58 pm

Necromancer, you must admit surely that evil has been created by god?

The only thing everlasting from time infinite past is god. There was no evil, because only god is everlasting. Now there is evil. Where did it come from? Where could it have come from? The only creator, according to Christians, is God, so He made everything. Why would evil be an exception of that? If evil was not created by god, and evil has not been everlasting since time infinite, where did it come from?

These are the questions you will face when you declare that evil does not derive from god.

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Re: Gnostic Christianity’s hidden in plain sight secret. We must do evil.

Post by Greatest I am » Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:36 pm

Necromancer wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:51 pm
Greatest I am wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:30 pm
Evolution and duality are primordial. Right?

Regards
DL
I have no opinion on that. Evolution and duality require the carnal, the life outside God's domain. Unknown how it relates really. :D
True that they are outside of God's imaginary fantasy domain.

Regards
DL
Last edited by Greatest I am on Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Gnostic Christianity’s hidden in plain sight secret. We must do evil.

Post by Greatest I am » Sat Jan 27, 2018 11:54 pm

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:13 pm
Greatest I am wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:27 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:46 pm


Gnosticism is premised on an inherent tension resulting from a necessary dualism and in these respects can never really achieve either the peace or stability it claims as "warfare" of either a spiritual, intellectual or physical nature is not unavoidable but necessary.

The differ between it and standard Chrisitianity in one respect is one of necessity. Free will is necessary preserved under standard Christian doctrine where the individual has a choice between good and evil, and any failure will be atoned for through an act of generosity or mercy given by God on his behalf. The gnostic doctrine however requires the dualism, and eliminates the necessity of free will as both and evil are necessary in themselves.

If one looks at evil as merely a deficiency in being through action or intention a contradiction occurs within Gnosticism as it claims this evil in itself is necessary. In simpler terms "evil" or "non-being" is necessary. The problem occurs in that evil is not anything but rather a deficiency and in these respects Gnosticism hold in high regard the practice of "nothingness" which in itself is "nothing"...not even necessity itself. This is considering necessity is conducive to being as necessity is an extension of being. In order to exist one must reach their necessity. In simpler terms one must eradicate nothing through "being", which in itself is expressed through virtues conducive to life such as generosity, etc.

Evil is merely nothingess, and in these regards it is not a thing in itself like the gnostics claim it is.
If evil is nothingness, it's dualistic opposite good is also nothingness.

The opposite of being is nothingness, evil is merely a deficiency an not a thing in itself. If the opposite of being is nothingness, then how can being being its own opposite?



Because I believe both to be real concepts, I reject your view.

How is nothingness "real" when nothingess is a complete absence that can only be viewed relative to being strictly in the form of gradation of that very same being?

You compared my Gnostic Christian dualistic view with Christianity and saw it as different.

If it was not different then why do the Roman and Orthodox churches claim it as a heresy, ie a deficiency in truth?

Does the Exsultet hymn that call the sin of Adam a happy fault and necessary sin change your view?

Not really.

Further, you see Yin and Yang as opposites, while I and some philosophers see them as compliments to each other like the front and back.

Good and evil, being and non-being are opposites. While good does not require evil as necesary for good to exist it can derive goodness from evil much in the same manner that being can arise from non-being. One manner is a perpetual act of self-reflection as an opposition to nothingess. Another is that evil cancels itself out leaving nothing but good left. A third is that all randomness moves towards order as it cannot exist on its own terms, if I remember correctly aspects of Chaos Theory argue this point.

This however does not equate non-being as something in itself but merely a deficiency in good through a process of seperation, or individuation, conducive to "destruction". In this itself, good as a unity through consistency maintains itself as ever present and constant, through these process of "change" or "movement". However Evil perpetual cycles through itself to cancel itself out. What we understand of evil, as inconsitency, or destruction through change, gives us the foundations for what we understand of "time" as continual movement. What we understand of as Good, or Unity, is merely approximate through the observation of movement.

However each of these movements, corresponding to an infinite number of platonic forms specifically those of geometric nature, while appearing to change actually exist perpetually.

It is in seeing the deficiency of unity, and the practice of vices which are conducive to seperation, that the fundamental nature of evil lies in the act of "ignorance" or not seeing being for what it is as a whole.

However we can see aspects the eternal nature of the good, or unity and stability, through a basic observation of space itself: The point is an ever present median that both composes reality and maintains it. So while we may observe "change", reflective of our own ignorance, we can see an approximation of the unity (much in the same manner of plato's alleghory of the cave) by observing the "point" as an ever present median of space which does not change in itself.

You can observe this abstractly or physical when viewing an object from a distance...it is reduced to a point. Up close is ends up as a point. From a moderate view it is composed of reflecting points that are all extensions of eachother as one phenomena or axiom...which in itself is a point. Intuitively we reduce realities and ideologies to points, as axioms, the must reflect other axioms, points, as an larger or smaller phenomena which in turn as an axiom it a point in itself the follows the same process of "mirroring".



This in turn, as a structural extension of the "one", reflects backs to its nature in observing a few simple facts:

1) Through the point everything is a median for everything.
2) The point is never changing and reflects itself ad-infinitum
3) As a median point, which provides also the foundations for all abstract and physical axioms, we can observe the observation itself is the center point and median of reality itself.
4) Ethically, as extensions of the "One" point, we can observe constant moral and ethical codes that reflect through its mirroring nature such as the
"golden rule".
5) The mirroring process of the point observes that we are all united through it by a grand universal symmetry.
6) It is the one fundamental axiom universal to all forms of consciousness and the foundation of the will as "focusing".

In these respects what we understand of evil, as a deficiency or ignorance, is fundamentally the inability to reflect upon one's actions, the actions of another, or the actions of the environment. Through this act of reflection we are better able to not only give structure to ourselves and the environment but without it, as one of the fundamental foundations of consciousness, we are unable to be rational as a form of justice. Reason is merely the application of ratios through a process of reflection that maintains being for what it is while simultaneously "birthing" it from nothingness, ie. "evil".

This act of reflection, as a foundation for reason, not only gives structure but orders the passion against anyform of extreme in which they become harmful. It observes a median between extremes and allows the will to express itself fully by preventing any bondage to one extreme or another. In a



Thoughts?
In regards to the yin-yang the philsophy eventually emphasizes a trifold nature of Good, Evil, and the "dimensions" which give boundary to the yin yang itself. The yin-yang, while observing a dualism for standard initiates of the philosophy, actually constitutes, at minimum, a trifold nature. So the yin-yang is not premised in a strictly dualistic nature, otherwise the continual opposition results in contradiction but simultaneously observes that dualism itself cancels itself out.


Regards
DL
Sorry buddy.

You made some points that might be worth chatting about but you have mixed what I put in response to our friend and are speaking more to his view than mine.

======

You seemed to get off track here.

My-----
" Because I believe both to be real concepts, I reject your view."

Your ---
"How is nothingness "real" when"

========

I did not say nothingness was real.

I will say that nothingness is a real concept and that that concept might apply only between sub atomic particles.

You also put ----
"While good does not require evil as necessary for good to exist"

Good and evil are dualistic concepts. One cannot be considered without the other because if we are to quantify good, the graph we write would have to have something at the other end. We could call that least good if we wanted to but the world evil already exists and the opposite of good on our graph should be designated as evil.

Some of your other points are so off topic I do not feel inclined to speak to them.

If we cannot agree on terms like good and evil then communicating will be a bitch.

If you had a particular point you wanted me to address, please put it in it's own post.

Regards
DL

P.S. Red is really hard on my eyes on my computer. Please use another color.

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Re: Gnostic Christianity’s hidden in plain sight secret. We must do evil.

Post by gaffo » Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:16 am

Hi Snake
Greatest I am wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:20 pm
Gnostic Christianity’s hidden in plain sight secret.

?? I don;t follow.
Greatest I am wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:20 pm
We must do evil.

We do?

why?
Greatest I am wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:20 pm
is the Gnostic Christian myth more intelligent than the Christian myth?

I know you do (as you probably know i do not) - welcome why you believe so.

I personally view both as equal in the "evil" department. since we've known each other now for a decade on that "other forum" - we both know that the other knows all well about the Theologies of both Othodox Christianity and Gnostic Christianity.


Greatest I am wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:20 pm
The Gnostic Christian myth explains evil quite nicely as compared to what Christianity has produced.

how so?

via like below?



Greatest I am wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:20 pm
Gnostic Christians posit an evil God, Yahweh, because of his creation of the evolutionary system in place. This system forces us to do evil to others when we win competitions. We must compete to survive and thrive. We must do evil and that is why we see Yahweh as evil. In a more modern sense, not so much evil as a necessary evil. In the Gnostic Christian view, this allows hope that there is another God above Yahweh that might have a better system that excludes that evil. Yahweh then is just our idea of a system we do not like for it’s evils, and we actually hope to be wrong in our evaluation of reality.

Do you recognize that you must do evil to survive and that the Gnostic Christian myth is a better way to explain evil than the Christian myth does?

Regards
DL
all Hail Sophia!

gaffo
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Re: Gnostic Christianity’s hidden in plain sight secret. We must do evil.

Post by gaffo » Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:18 am

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:46 pm
Greatest I am wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:20 pm
Gnostic Christianity’s hidden in plain sight secret. We must do evil.

Given evolution and evil, is the Gnostic Christian myth more intelligent than the Christian myth?
The Gnostic Christian myth explains evil quite nicely as compared to what Christianity has produced.

Doing evil must have conscious volition. In law, they call that idea, mens rea. It is the cornerstone of secular and religious law and shows guilt and the knowledge that one is doing evil to another. When present, that is the only time sin can be applied to mankind.

Gnostic Christians posit an evil God, Yahweh, because of his creation of the evolutionary system in place. This system forces us to do evil to others when we win competitions. We must compete to survive and thrive. We must do evil and that is why we see Yahweh as evil. In a more modern sense, not so much evil as a necessary evil. In the Gnostic Christian view, this allows hope that there is another God above Yahweh that might have a better system that excludes that evil. Yahweh then is just our idea of a system we do not like for it’s evils, and we actually hope to be wrong in our evaluation of reality.

Do you recognize that you must do evil to survive and that the Gnostic Christian myth is a better way to explain evil than the Christian myth does?

Regards
DL
Gnosticism is premised on an inherent tension resulting from a necessary dualism and in these respects can never really achieve either the peace or stability it claims as "warfare" of either a spiritual, intellectual or physical nature is not unavoidable but necessary.

The differ between it and standard Chrisitianity in one respect is one of necessity. Free will is necessary preserved under standard Christian doctrine where the individual has a choice between good and evil, and any failure will be atoned for through an act of generosity or mercy given by God on his behalf. The gnostic doctrine however requires the dualism, and eliminates the necessity of free will as both and evil are necessary in themselves.

If one looks at evil as merely a deficiency in being through action or intention a contradiction occurs within Gnosticism as it claims this evil in itself is necessary. In simpler terms "evil" or "non-being" is necessary. The problem occurs in that evil is not anything but rather a deficiency and in these respects Gnosticism hold in high regard the practice of "nothingness" which in itself is "nothing"...not even necessity itself. This is considering necessity is conducive to being as necessity is an extension of being. In order to exist one must reach their necessity. In simpler terms one must eradicate nothing through "being", which in itself is expressed through virtues conducive to life such as generosity, etc.

Evil is merely nothingess, and in these regards it is not a thing in itself like the gnostics claim it is.
interesting post

gaffo
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Re: Gnostic Christianity’s hidden in plain sight secret. We must do evil.

Post by gaffo » Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:21 am

Necromancer wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:41 pm
Greatest I am wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:20 pm
Gnostic Christianity’s hidden in plain sight secret. We must do evil.

Given evolution and evil, is the Gnostic Christian myth more intelligent than the Christian myth?
The Gnostic Christian myth explains evil quite nicely as compared to what Christianity has produced.

Doing evil must have conscious volition. In law, they call that idea, mens rea. It is the cornerstone of secular and religious law and shows guilt and the knowledge that one is doing evil to another. When present, that is the only time sin can be applied to mankind.

Gnostic Christians posit an evil God, Yahweh, because of his creation of the evolutionary system in place. This system forces us to do evil to others when we win competitions. We must compete to survive and thrive. We must do evil and that is why we see Yahweh as evil. In a more modern sense, not so much evil as a necessary evil. In the Gnostic Christian view, this allows hope that there is another God above Yahweh that might have a better system that excludes that evil. Yahweh then is just our idea of a system we do not like for it’s evils, and we actually hope to be wrong in our evaluation of reality.

Do you recognize that you must do evil to survive and that the Gnostic Christian myth is a better way to explain evil than the Christian myth does?

Regards
DL
The Devil is making us do evil, mind you!
God: goodness of the Light and Devil: evil of the Darkness!
Genesis 1 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV:
"3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day." (Suggesting primordial evil.)
I too like the Enuma Elish, but not sure why you are refering to such a polytheistic/pagan work.

gaffo
Posts: 1212
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: Gnostic Christianity’s hidden in plain sight secret. We must do evil.

Post by gaffo » Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:23 am

Greatest I am wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:27 pm

Does the Exsultet hymn that call the sin of Adam a happy fault and necessary sin change your view?
tell me more about the above particular. first time i've head of it.

i welcome knowledge - though an atheistic Belial bound heathen.

gaffo
Posts: 1212
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2017 3:15 am

Re: Gnostic Christianity’s hidden in plain sight secret. We must do evil.

Post by gaffo » Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:30 am

-1- wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:58 pm
Necromancer, you must admit surely that evil has been created by god?

The only thing everlasting from time infinite past is god. There was no evil, because only god is everlasting. Now there is evil. Where did it come from? Where could it have come from? The only creator, according to Christians, is God, so He made everything. Why would evil be an exception of that? If evil was not created by god, and evil has not been everlasting since time infinite, where did it come from?

These are the questions you will face when you declare that evil does not derive from god.
there IS in the Torah and i quote "I am good yet create evil"...........where? which book? no idea, my memory is poor - but it is in there!

i suspect nearly all Jews affirm this view today.

------

as for Christian, nope. they will deny that the above - though it is written for them read! - is in the Torah and demand that God is good and NEVER had a part in making or even allowing Evil.

that is because the theology of the OT is not that of the NT WRT to the nature of Evil - however the Christians will never affirm this concept and instead the last 1900 years have forced the OT theology into the NT theological box.

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