Will Trump's border wall keep out all undesirables?

For all things philosophical.

Moderators: AMod, iMod

Philosophy Explorer
Posts: 4635
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 7:39 am

Will Trump's border wall keep out all undesirables?

Post by Philosophy Explorer » Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:07 pm

My answer is no.

Consider prisons where security is supposed to be very high. There have been prison breakouts (including "El Chapo"). The border wall does not keep undesirables trapped, only designed to keep them out of the US. I can't see the wall being effective under these circumstance and I consider the other issues concerning the wall to be minor in comparison.

PhilX 🇺🇸

Nick_A
Posts: 2244
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:23 am

Re: Will Trump's border wall keep out all undesirables?

Post by Nick_A » Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:59 pm

Philosophy Explorer wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:07 pm
My answer is no.

Consider prisons where security is supposed to be very high. There have been prison breakouts (including "El Chapo"). The border wall does not keep undesirables trapped, only designed to keep them out of the US. I can't see the wall being effective under these circumstance and I consider the other issues concerning the wall to be minor in comparison.

PhilX 🇺🇸
"Good fences make good neighbours."

We will soon have scientific verification on this either way. Six progressive politicians have agreed to participate in a government funded experiment to get to the bottom of it. They will remove the doors to their homes for three months and see if it allows unwanted visitors to enter. The hypothesis is that people are basically good and respectful to others so doors are unnecessary and just breed ill will. Therefore there will be no unwanted visitors. It is rewarding to find people willing to act on their beliefs.

uwot
Posts: 3295
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 7:21 am

Re: Will Trump's border wall keep out all undesirables?

Post by uwot » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:20 pm

Nick_A wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:59 pm
Philosophy Explorer wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:07 pm
My answer is no.

Consider prisons where security is supposed to be very high. There have been prison breakouts (including "El Chapo"). The border wall does not keep undesirables trapped, only designed to keep them out of the US. I can't see the wall being effective under these circumstance and I consider the other issues concerning the wall to be minor in comparison.

PhilX 🇺🇸
"Good fences make good neighbours."

We will soon have scientific verification on this either way. Six progressive politicians have agreed to participate in a government funded experiment to get to the bottom of it. They will remove the doors to their homes for three months and see if it allows unwanted visitors to enter. The hypothesis is that people are basically good and respectful to others so doors are unnecessary and just breed ill will. Therefore there will be no unwanted visitors. It is rewarding to find people willing to act on their beliefs.
More to the point: will it keep them all in?

Dubious
Posts: 1497
Joined: Tue May 19, 2015 7:40 am

Re: Will Trump's border wall keep out all undesirables?

Post by Dubious » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:07 pm

...not all but the intent is understandable. After all inside Trump's borders they have enough of their own they can't get rid of starting at the very top.

fooloso4
Posts: 131
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 4:42 pm

Re: Will Trump's border wall keep out all undesirables?

Post by fooloso4 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:23 pm

There are many who think that Trump himself leads the list of undesirables and is potentially if not actually more dangerous than all others.

Who and what determines the criteria of undesirability? The assumption that because someone comes from what Trump calls shithole countries they are undesirable is and should be questioned.

The problem of immigration has much more to do with numbers than with the spin it is being given regarding the character of individuals. A wall might slow the number of people entering the country illegally, but no wall will keep out all undesirable and we already have plenty of homegrown undesirables.

A successful wall would keep out the migrant workers who are essential for agribusiness and and other businesses that rely on manual labor. Accommodations will have to be made, but this will be a form of indentured servitude without liberty and perhaps without a path to citizenship.

Philosophy Explorer
Posts: 4635
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 7:39 am

Re: Will Trump's border wall keep out all undesirables?

Post by Philosophy Explorer » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:52 pm

fooloso4 wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:23 pm
There are many who think that Trump himself leads the list of undesirables and is potentially if not actually more dangerous than all others.

Who and what determines the criteria of undesirability? The assumption that because someone comes from what Trump calls shithole countries they are undesirable is and should be questioned.

The problem of immigration has much more to do with numbers than with the spin it is being given regarding the character of individuals. A wall might slow the number of people entering the country illegally, but no wall will keep out all undesirable and we already have plenty of homegrown undesirables.

A successful wall would keep out the migrant workers who are essential for agribusiness and and other businesses that rely on manual labor. Accommodations will have to be made, but this will be a form of indentured servitude without liberty and perhaps without a path to citizenship.
Maybe I should have worded the question "How effective will Trump's border wall be?" which implies a bunch of questions.

PhilX 🇺🇸

User avatar
vegetariantaxidermy
Posts: 6248
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Narniabiznus

Re: Will Trump's border wall keep out all undesirables?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:23 am

Yes. It should help to keep them out of Mexico.

User avatar
henry quirk
Posts: 2846
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm
Location: right here

Post by henry quirk » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:26 am

"Will Trump's border wall keep out all undesirables?"

Nope, but that's not its chief purpose (which is asserting sovereignty).

#

"How effective will Trump's border wall be?"

As effective as we make it. As a inert, low maintenance, obstacle, it has worth, but not as much as some folks give it. Its true value is a high investment, on-going thing ([re]declaring sovereignty).

User avatar
vegetariantaxidermy
Posts: 6248
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Narniabiznus

Re: Will Trump's border wall keep out all undesirables?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:33 am

How primitive.

User avatar
henry quirk
Posts: 2846
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm
Location: right here

"shithole countries"

Post by henry quirk » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:37 am


fooloso4
Posts: 131
Joined: Mon May 01, 2017 4:42 pm

Re: Will Trump's border wall keep out all undesirables?

Post by fooloso4 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:40 am

PhilX:
"How effective will Trump's border wall be?" which implies a bunch of questions.
In terms of efficacy I think there are two main issues: can it built and can it be traversed or gone around. There are geographic, political, budgetary, and legal problems with building it. As to its ability to keep people and drugs out, it will make it more difficult for individuals, but in addition to going over and under and through, there are other ways to get in such as planes, ships and trucks to get in and drug cartels have the resources to do so.

Other questions include cost/benefit - it is not just a matter of building it, but of guarding and maintaining it, and environmental impact.

User avatar
henry quirk
Posts: 2846
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 8:07 pm
Location: right here

"How primitive."

Post by henry quirk » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:40 am

To you: absolutely.

To me: just necessary.

User avatar
Greta
Posts: 2955
Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2015 8:10 am

Re: Will Trump's border wall keep out all undesirables?

Post by Greta » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:01 am

vegetariantaxidermy wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:23 am
Yes. It should help to keep them out of Mexico.
:lol: Actually, I saw in a recent documentary that many Mexicans are moving back to the old country because they are seeing better prospects at home than in the US.

User avatar
vegetariantaxidermy
Posts: 6248
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Narniabiznus

Re: Will Trump's border wall keep out all undesirables?

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:58 am

fooloso4 wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:40 am
PhilX:
"How effective will Trump's border wall be?" which implies a bunch of questions.
In terms of efficacy I think there are two main issues: can it built and can it be traversed or gone around. There are geographic, political, budgetary, and legal problems with building it. As to its ability to keep people and drugs out, it will make it more difficult for individuals, but in addition to going over and under and through, there are other ways to get in such as planes, ships and trucks to get in and drug cartels have the resources to do so.

Other questions include cost/benefit - it is not just a matter of building it, but of guarding and maintaining it, and environmental impact.
The Berliners seemed to manage it.

User avatar
vegetariantaxidermy
Posts: 6248
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:45 am
Location: Narniabiznus

Re: "How primitive."

Post by vegetariantaxidermy » Mon Jan 15, 2018 2:00 am

henry quirk wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:40 am
To you: absolutely.

To me: just necessary.
Not 'to me'. It just is. Who else rants about their 'sovereignty' these days? And what exactly do you mean anyway?

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests