Verbal abuse and cyber-bullying on Philosophy Now forums

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Greta
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Re: Verbal abuse and cyber-bullying on Philosophy Now forums

Post by Greta » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:38 pm

Needleman liner notes wrote:On one level, I Am Not I brings younger readers (teenagers and young adults) face to face with powerful spiritual and philosophical ideas. But as the book progresses, the dialogue delves into questions and insights that carry astonishing new hope and vision for every man and woman, challenging our culture’s accepted—and often toxic—ideas about humanity’s place in a living universe.
Go on, Nick. Tell us what we are supposed to know. You're the man with all the answers. How about stopping with the bragging and criticising and just tell us these important gems of wisdom? What is the larger "I" that Needleman claims to transcend death? Is it the whole universe or a smaller, more local entity? Is it, as claimed in an NDE, a mandala of interwoven souls, like a soul group?
I suppose you would see that as casting pearls before swine. So instead you seem to prefer poking and hassling the swine without offering them anything and seeing that as the act of a wise man.

Nick_A
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Re: Verbal abuse and cyber-bullying on Philosophy Now forums

Post by Nick_A » Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:40 am

Greta wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:38 pm
Needleman liner notes wrote:On one level, I Am Not I brings younger readers (teenagers and young adults) face to face with powerful spiritual and philosophical ideas. But as the book progresses, the dialogue delves into questions and insights that carry astonishing new hope and vision for every man and woman, challenging our culture’s accepted—and often toxic—ideas about humanity’s place in a living universe.
Go on, Nick. Tell us what we are supposed to know. You're the man with all the answers. How about stopping with the bragging and criticising and just tell us these important gems of wisdom? What is the larger "I" that Needleman claims to transcend death? Is it the whole universe or a smaller, more local entity? Is it, as claimed in an NDE, a mandala of interwoven souls, like a soul group?
I suppose you would see that as casting pearls before swine. So instead you seem to prefer poking and hassling the swine without offering them anything and seeing that as the act of a wise man.
"I" is our potential. We live as a plurality with a deep inner need for unity. The real question is what do you need. Do you need to argue, condemn, and ridicule or do you need a new mind which can be open to the needs of the human heart. I cannot argue I with you. it is too importnt to be dragged into the gutter. Read this article. Are you open to it?

https://www.brainpickings.org/2016/10/1 ... needleman/

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Greta
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Re: Verbal abuse and cyber-bullying on Philosophy Now forums

Post by Greta » Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:37 am

Nick_A wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:40 am
Greta wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:38 pm
Needleman liner notes wrote:On one level, I Am Not I brings younger readers (teenagers and young adults) face to face with powerful spiritual and philosophical ideas. But as the book progresses, the dialogue delves into questions and insights that carry astonishing new hope and vision for every man and woman, challenging our culture’s accepted—and often toxic—ideas about humanity’s place in a living universe.
Go on, Nick. Tell us what we are supposed to know. You're the man with all the answers. How about stopping with the bragging and criticising and just tell us these important gems of wisdom? What is the larger "I" that Needleman claims to transcend death? Is it the whole universe or a smaller, more local entity? Is it, as claimed in an NDE, a mandala of interwoven souls, like a soul group?
I suppose you would see that as casting pearls before swine. So instead you seem to prefer poking and hassling the swine without offering them anything and seeing that as the act of a wise man.
"I" is our potential. We live as a plurality with a deep inner need for unity. The real question is what do you need. Do you need to argue, condemn, and ridicule or do you need a new mind which can be open to the needs of the human heart. I cannot argue I with you. it is too importnt to be dragged into the gutter. Read this article. Are you open to it?

https://www.brainpickings.org/2016/10/1 ... needleman/
Sure I am open to his ideas, many of which I've considered myself, although less eloquently. Are there any particular points of the article that you'd like to focus on?

Dubious
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Re: Verbal abuse and cyber-bullying on Philosophy Now forums

Post by Dubious » Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:22 am

I read the whole article. It amounts to a mythologizing of the "I" complex into some kind of manufactured revelation; a sentimental melodrama of pretty words along the lines of Deepak Chopra hoping the mystical epiphany of the I experience will lead to dividends in one's bank account.

It's for suckers; unthinking weak minds without grit who easily succumb to this type of mental molasses.

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Re: Verbal abuse and cyber-bullying on Philosophy Now forums

Post by Nick_A » Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:37 pm

Greta wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:37 am
Nick_A wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:40 am
Greta wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:38 pm


Go on, Nick. Tell us what we are supposed to know. You're the man with all the answers. How about stopping with the bragging and criticising and just tell us these important gems of wisdom? What is the larger "I" that Needleman claims to transcend death? Is it the whole universe or a smaller, more local entity? Is it, as claimed in an NDE, a mandala of interwoven souls, like a soul group?
I suppose you would see that as casting pearls before swine. So instead you seem to prefer poking and hassling the swine without offering them anything and seeing that as the act of a wise man.
"I" is our potential. We live as a plurality with a deep inner need for unity. The real question is what do you need. Do you need to argue, condemn, and ridicule or do you need a new mind which can be open to the needs of the human heart. I cannot argue I with you. it is too importnt to be dragged into the gutter. Read this article. Are you open to it?

https://www.brainpickings.org/2016/10/1 ... needleman/
Sure I am open to his ideas, many of which I've considered myself, although less eloquently. Are there any particular points of the article that you'd like to focus on?
No discussion can become meaningful with people unable to have had the experience that "I am not I" Without the experience of our hypocrisy the ideas are lost into naive arguments. JN wrote:

The struggle to exist, to not disappear in this moment, is the advancing root of the struggle to exist throughout the whole passage of time. We need to help each other in this struggle. You by asking, I by struggling to respond. This is the law of love, which rules the universe.
Until we have the experience of our higher and lower natures and the conflict between them there is no reason to concern ourselves with the fallen human condition and the inner slavery it keeps us in. Just stay in the mud and keep fighting over opinions. But who is capable of the humility to admit their perpetual slavery to the human condition so as to struggle with it for the sake of inner freedom? That is step one but people prefer to argue opinions created by the imaginary reconciliation of our higher and lower nature assuming I as human potential and the I of our personality are the same.

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Greta
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Re: Verbal abuse and cyber-bullying on Philosophy Now forums

Post by Greta » Sun Jan 07, 2018 10:45 pm

Nick_A wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:37 pm
Greta wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:37 am
Sure I am open to his ideas, many of which I've considered myself, although less eloquently. Are there any particular points of the article that you'd like to focus on?
No discussion can become meaningful with people unable to have had the experience that "I am not I" Without the experience of our hypocrisy the ideas are lost into naive arguments.
I have certainly had that experience, more than once. What next?
Nick_A wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:37 pm
But who is capable of the humility to admit their perpetual slavery to the human condition so as to struggle with it for the sake of inner freedom?
Many, including me, have thought of us as "meat puppets" and the right search will find a number of posts where I have referred to us as such. I am most keen on supervening in this dynamic rather than just following impulses and drives.

So yes, I qualify, and thus you may get down to speaking about what you really mean without further gate-keeping. Let's really talk about this for a change.

Dubious
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Re: Verbal abuse and cyber-bullying on Philosophy Now forums

Post by Dubious » Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:13 pm

This is the law of love, which rules the universe.

The universe has nothing to do with love and everything to do with physics.

Devoid of original thought, you constantly affirm the most mundane and sugary ones, as confirmed by your ceaseless quotes, which you consider beyond everyone's comprehension except yours. What's truly pathetic in your willful ignorance is the transparency of attention seeking.

The real lesson to be derived is how a diseased ego subjugates the mind in the name of its supposed wisdom. The one thing left to learn from you is to vehemently avoid that which you declare to have mastered and understood. It means detouring the mind, which seeks perspectives abroad, from being its own neurotic dictator seeing only ITS visions played out in Plato's club of viewers.

Nevertheless, if importance is measured by the attention received then your priority on this site is beyond question. You've succeeded at least in that. May you continue to plow and reap and all your sparsely inspired quotes act as both seed and fertilizer.

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Arising_uk
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Re: Verbal abuse and cyber-bullying on Philosophy Now forums

Post by Arising_uk » Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:13 am

davidm wrote:I really wish people wouldn't buy into Nick's willful mischaracterization of Einstein and read the Einstein quotes that Nick cherry picks in context.
Touche, but the context would have been nice then.

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Re: Verbal abuse and cyber-bullying on Philosophy Now forums

Post by davidm » Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:47 am

Arising_uk wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:13 am
davidm wrote:I really wish people wouldn't buy into Nick's willful mischaracterization of Einstein and read the Einstein quotes that Nick cherry picks in context.
Touche, but the context would have been nice then.
Did you imagine that a charlatan like Nick would supply you with context? He's a cherry picker; that's what guys like him do.

Pretty much all of Einstein's science and non-science writings can be found online; I've read the work by Einstein from which Nick cherry picks and it bears no relation whatever to his rantings.

Nick_A
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Re: Verbal abuse and cyber-bullying on Philosophy Now forums

Post by Nick_A » Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:58 pm

Greta, you seem to have a strong emotional rejection of Christianity. This is normal because over time Christianity has devolved into sects of Christendom or man made Christianity into society producing mixed results. Many here have had bad experiences with these mixed results. However, St. Paul provides and elegant personal description of our dual nature and how far we are from “I Am.” Are you open to contemplating it and experiencing the same within you? This is the essential beginning. Can a person living as a plurality consciously evolve into inner unity? To “know thyself” means to experience this great contradiction within ourselves. Without it we just intensify our negativity through frustration producing the verbal abuse and cyber bullying this thread is about. We cannot solve a problem without first experiencing the problem and admitting it.

Romans 7
14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature[d] a slave to the law of sin.

Dubious
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Re: Verbal abuse and cyber-bullying on Philosophy Now forums

Post by Dubious » Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:15 pm

Nick_A wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 2:58 pm
20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
An excellent way to objectivize sin making it responsible by proxy instead of its host. Sin as an infection, must now yield to a rectifying agent to ameliorate or annul its consequences; to clean it up.

Nice idea! but there is no Jesus who will do the job for you. We possess the antibodies to this quandary of "doing what I don't want to do" in the form of willpower. Saint Paul, on the other hand, was the greatest propagandist who ever walked the planet regarding evil as some external contagion requiring the sacrifice of some putative divinity to neutralize its insidiousness.

When Christ got crucified forgoing any further purpose among his followers, he was resurrected by a mortal who later became a Saint. He accomplished this by transposing what to the Romans was just another routine crucifixion, into an act of redemption.

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Arising_uk
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Re: Verbal abuse and cyber-bullying on Philosophy Now forums

Post by Arising_uk » Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:55 am

Nick_A wrote:Greta, you seem to have a strong emotional rejection of Christianity. This is normal because over time Christianity has devolved into sects of Christendom or man made Christianity into society producing mixed results. Many here have had bad experiences with these mixed results. However, St. Paul provides and elegant personal description of our dual nature and how far we are from “I Am.” ...
Your irony knows no bounds! Christianity was a sect right form the beginning, a Jewish sect and like all theist religions it sectarianised pretty quickly. That you quote Paul who was responsible for one of the successful sects that hoovered up a chunk of the other sects is hysterical as he largely was responsible for this thing you call 'secularised religion' in your country.
Are you open to contemplating it and experiencing the same within you? ...
Are you?
This is the essential beginning. Can a person living as a plurality consciously evolve into inner unity? ...
Depends, what do you mean by an 'inner unity'? As I am well on the way to being congruent in my thoughts, thinking and communication and it is a pretty unified experience.
To “know thyself” means to experience this great contradiction within ourselves. ...
No it doesn't, that's just you with your Christian confirmation bias seeking stuff to support what you already believe.
Without it we just intensify our negativity through frustration producing the verbal abuse and cyber bullying this thread is about. We cannot solve a problem without first experiencing the problem and admitting it. ...
Or we could realise that what you are claiming is just untrue and the product of a Judeo-Christian upbringing.
Romans 7
Hence...

Dubious
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Re: Verbal abuse and cyber-bullying on Philosophy Now forums

Post by Dubious » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:25 am

For some "inner unity" simply means never disagreeing with oneself.

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Re: Verbal abuse and cyber-bullying on Philosophy Now forums

Post by marjoram_blues » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:31 am

Dubious wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:25 am
For some "inner unity" simply means never disagreeing with oneself.
Whatever 'oneself' is.

Dubious
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Re: Verbal abuse and cyber-bullying on Philosophy Now forums

Post by Dubious » Tue Jan 09, 2018 11:08 am

marjoram_blues wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:31 am
Dubious wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:25 am
For some "inner unity" simply means never disagreeing with oneself.
Whatever 'oneself' is.
"Oneself" is the "I" which separates me from you.

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