The act of creation is logically impossible or God is subject to time

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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Dontaskme
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Re: The act of creation is logically impossible or God is subject to time

Post by Dontaskme » Sun Dec 31, 2017 12:44 pm

Nick_A wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:22 pm
DaM
Creation is an imagined dream appearance within the already existing non-moving timeless ETERNAL NOW. The dream of separation, aka spacetime duality.
I don’t understand why you believe this. Could you explain why the Great Chain of Being is just a collective fragment of human imagination?
Because it's just a perspective, it's a view point, one of a multitude of view points, or for want of another way of describing it ...it's AN IDEA

For this one here....Creation can only exist as a known knowledge where there is a ''separate being'' ...aka a ''thinker''... otherwise, what is creation?, who is the creator?...these ideas are pure imagination aka made-up knowledge... a phenomena unique to the human mind brain body mechanism..which doesn't appear to be present in other creatures...I've not seen any other creature with a sense of separate I... have you?

Claiming ownership of an action is in my logic like saying (''I made that action happen'')...in the dream of separation it does appear that there is a someone making an action happen thus creation is born in that moment, the action becomes owned ..

....but happening is not happening to any one or to any thing...that it does appear to happen to a someone is illusory...since there is only EVERYTHING being and doing and happening all at once NOW...within that there is an imagined sense that it is 'I' being and doing and happening...this realisation is what the mind apparently does, it splits one into the many...while the split is seen as real, there is in fact no thing splitting anything, there is only everything...the mind inclusive ...there is just EVERYTHING being and doing happening.



Nick_A wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:22 pm
Granted, everything is dependent upon the Source and in this way connected, but to imply they do not have a unique reality doesn’t make sense to me.
Huh?...where has it been implied unique realities are not a reality? ..what have you said that for?

As far as I know, there are billions of different realities existing right now simultaneously just as there is no two snowflakes alike or two finger prints alike ...as far as I am aware, nature never repeats exactly.

The difference in my point of view is that there is no thing making these differences, and that differences are essentially all appearances appearing in the same place, namely, THE EVER UNCHANGING HERE AND NOW.

UN-born, UN-moving, UN-dying, eternal, infinite, silent, UN-identified,UN-created, place-less, imageless...NOW ...now here nowhere.

.

Nick_A
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Re: The act of creation is logically impossible or God is subject to time

Post by Nick_A » Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:34 pm

DAM
The difference in my point of view is that there is no thing making these differences, and that differences are essentially all appearances appearing in the same place, namely, THE EVER UNCHANGING HERE AND NOW.

UN-born, UN-moving, UN-dying, eternal, infinite, silent, UN-identified,UN-created, place-less, imageless...NOW ...now here nowhere.
Do you agree with the Hermetic conception of vibration? If you do, it explains why levels of reality defined by vibrational frequencies is an objective reality that we can only interpret due to the limitations of our being. Our interpretations are appearance but the vibrational frequencies defining creation are not.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/kyb/kyb11.htm
The great Third Hermetic Principle--the Principle of Vibration--embodies the truth that Motion is manifest in everything in the Universe--that nothing is at rest--that everything moves, vibrates, and circles. This Hermetic Principle was recognized by some of the early Greek philosophers who embodied it in their systems. But, then, for centuries it was lost sight of by the thinkers outside of the Hermetic ranks. But in the Nineteenth Century physical science re-discovered the truth and the Twentieth Century scientific discoveries have added additional proof of the correctness and truth of this centuries-old Hermetic doctrine.
The Hermetic Teachings are that not only is everything in constant movement and vibration, but that the "differences" between the various manifestations of the universal power are due entirely to the varying rate and mode of vibrations. Not only this, but that even THE ALL, in itself, manifests a constant vibration of such an infinite degree of intensity and rapid motion that it may be practically considered as at rest, the teachers directing the attention of the students to the fact that even on the physical plane a rapidly moving object (such as a revolving wheel) seems to be at rest. The Teachings are to the effect that Spirit is at one end of the Pole of Vibration, the other Pole being certain extremely gross forms of Matter. Between these two poles are millions upon millions of different rates and modes of vibration……………………...

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Dontaskme
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Re: The act of creation is logically impossible or God is subject to time

Post by Dontaskme » Sun Dec 31, 2017 5:27 pm

Nick_A wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 4:34 pm
DAM
The difference in my point of view is that there is no thing making these differences, and that differences are essentially all appearances appearing in the same place, namely, THE EVER UNCHANGING HERE AND NOW.

UN-born, UN-moving, UN-dying, eternal, infinite, silent, UN-identified,UN-created, place-less, imageless...NOW ...now here nowhere.
Do you agree with the Hermetic conception of vibration? If you do, it explains why levels of reality defined by vibrational frequencies is an objective reality that we can only interpret due to the limitations of our being. Our interpretations are appearance but the vibrational frequencies defining creation are not.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/eso/kyb/kyb11.htm
The great Third Hermetic Principle--the Principle of Vibration--embodies the truth that Motion is manifest in everything in the Universe--that nothing is at rest--that everything moves, vibrates, and circles. This Hermetic Principle was recognized by some of the early Greek philosophers who embodied it in their systems. But, then, for centuries it was lost sight of by the thinkers outside of the Hermetic ranks. But in the Nineteenth Century physical science re-discovered the truth and the Twentieth Century scientific discoveries have added additional proof of the correctness and truth of this centuries-old Hermetic doctrine.
The Hermetic Teachings are that not only is everything in constant movement and vibration, but that the "differences" between the various manifestations of the universal power are due entirely to the varying rate and mode of vibrations. Not only this, but that even THE ALL, in itself, manifests a constant vibration of such an infinite degree of intensity and rapid motion that it may be practically considered as at rest, the teachers directing the attention of the students to the fact that even on the physical plane a rapidly moving object (such as a revolving wheel) seems to be at rest. The Teachings are to the effect that Spirit is at one end of the Pole of Vibration, the other Pole being certain extremely gross forms of Matter. Between these two poles are millions upon millions of different rates and modes of vibration……………………...
Nick, in response to your reply, I do agree with the Hermetic conception of vibration...because knowledge about anything comes from a relative perspective which just happens to exist in the same one place which is this ever unfolding ever changing changeless un-moving NOW.

Reality is a divine paradox, there is no knowledge about anything without this paradox... motion aka vibration can only be known in relation to that which does not move. No motion has ever been seen, no thing is moving, it's only a known concept. The seer of any motion is an illusion because the seer is not separate from the moving, the moving is appearing in the un-moved seer...The seer doesn't move nor has the seer ever been seen..these are pure concepts of no known knowable source.

And since no thing is actually in relation with another thing..any movement is purely a movement of the un-moved mover...this is not a case of either / or..it's both as one making the claim of vibration. . In other words No thing is claiming it is moving.

This doesn't need to be complicated...is there any alternative to what I've described Nick, lets hear it?

.

Viveka
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Re: The act of creation is logically impossible or God is subject to time

Post by Viveka » Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:53 am

If God is a person he can decide to create at any moment he pleases, and could exist in timelessness and/or eternity.

Nick_A
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Re: The act of creation is logically impossible or God is subject to time

Post by Nick_A » Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:30 pm

DAM
And since no thing is actually in relation with another thing..any movement is purely a movement of the un-moved mover...this is not a case of either / or..it's both as one making the claim of vibration. . In other words No thing is claiming it is moving.

This doesn't need to be complicated...is there any alternative to what I've described Nick, lets hear it?
You seem to be suggesting that relative material vibration as the building blocks of the universe is just imagination. If so, there can be no objective universal purpose or objective human meaning and purpose. Do you agree?

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Dontaskme
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Re: The act of creation is logically impossible or God is subject to time

Post by Dontaskme » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:02 am

Nick_A wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:30 pm
DAM
And since no thing is actually in relation with another thing..any movement is purely a movement of the un-moved mover...this is not a case of either / or..it's both as one making the claim of vibration. . In other words No thing is claiming it is moving.

This doesn't need to be complicated...is there any alternative to what I've described Nick, lets hear it?
You seem to be suggesting that relative material vibration as the building blocks of the universe is just imagination. If so, there can be no objective universal purpose or objective human meaning and purpose. Do you agree?
I agree, there is no meaning or purpose to being alive. It doesn't matter what form that aliveness takes on...Aliveness just is what it is. Then, that same aliveness attaches a label to itself, apparently splitting itself into many different things as it labels.

The only reason we are here at all is because two people had sex one day. I'm pretty sure they had no knowledge that it was you who was going to show up after the event...and prior to you showing up ..where were you, who were you?...these questions are un-answerable. We have no idea who we are except what we make-up.

No one was born on purpose, and there is no knowable reason why a human is born a human or a cat is born a cat, there is no choice in the matter, and nothing happens on purpose or for any reason. Same goes for ''thoughts''..they are spontaneously arising too, it's unknown what thought is going to arise next.
We have no idea who or what we are except what is imagined, or made-up using conceptual metaphors aka language which by all accounts is not what reality is because THIS what ever this is was already HERE before any label was attached to it. IT had to be, for nothing cannot be...so it's already self-evident...as it appears.

This attaching phenomena is an unknowable mystery that is aliveness itself... aka sourced in this immediate presence ...which is nothing more than temporal passing ''invisible thoughts'' coming from nowhere here now ...going nowhere, now here, being nowhere, now here.

.

We didn't exist prior to birth and we won't exist when we die, we have no knowledge of any before's or after's ourself...there's only the middle bit, an apparent relative known appearance... between two absolute unknowns...so what is this unknown appearance except what invisible thought thinks it is?

It is seen by no one, that a thought is a phantom aka ENERGY that can make-up all sorts of shit about absolutely any thing it can think of...for what can this energy do with NOTHINGNESS?


That's about the crux of it...for this one here anyway, just another of a multitude of opinions. Remember also, since no one has ever been alive before, no one can really know what they are doing, we literally make our life up as we go along, and no one is actually doing this for reasons I've already explained in this post.

.

osgart
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Re: The act of creation is logically impossible or God is subject to time

Post by osgart » Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:45 pm

Perhaps time is both a force, and also a hypothetical measure counter. But both would be very real. I totally see that there could actually be an outside reality to the force of time. Time makes everything contiguous as a force. As a hypothetical measure counter, everything is subject to the tick tock of infinite everywhere time and everything happens relative to the abstract measure. So in my mind infinity past, has led all the way up to now, on into infinity future.

Intelligent life is the advancement of meaningful time. So there must be eternal memory to make such advancement. There must also be primordial, primitive intelligence, that is eternal.

I suppose one can sit and debate forever, intelligence being an emergent fluke, of purely physical happenings but there is absurdity in just accepting that too.

Every existent entity is subject to time, and our creators exist bound to time. For it's a force that creates life.

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