How God could fail to convey His message?

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

User avatar
SpheresOfBalance
Posts: 5239
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:27 pm
Location: On a Star Dust Metamorphosis

Re: How God could fail to convey His message?

Post by SpheresOfBalance » Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:56 pm

thedoc wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:56 am
SpheresOfBalance wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:46 am
thedoc wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:24 am


So you don't like IC's post, is that because you don't like IC, or is it because he supported my statement, or is it because he demonstrates more knowledge of logic than you will ever understand?
Hey Doc, how you doing? Happy Holidays! Do you still listen to any of those Winter Solstice musicians? How's your piano playing going? I hope your family is healthy, happy and wise. My best to you and yours! ;-)

As far as IC goes, what I said to him only pertains to him. I'm sure you know me by now. I never fear engaging people here on this forum, if I so choose. If I decided to engage your rhetoric, you should know by now, that I surely would. IC, I see as a liar, and I hate liars. You, I'm inclined to believe, actually believe what you say. And you're as honest as you can be in your approach. Do I think you're correct in your belief? NO!! Do I believe you have the right to believe anything you so choose? Yes! Do I like you better than IC, sure! I've actually called you friend once, remember? Do I love to argue those things that I honestly believe are true, oh most definitely! Is is necessarily personal? No, not anymore.

Of course I'll always feel sorry for fools that have bought into a swampland community. It's in my nature! And I'll always try and cause them to think clearly, so they can finally sue the swampland developers.

Peace, my friend!

P.S. I really did believe that it was brave of you to share that experience.

Happy Holidays!

P.P.S. And by the way, IC's logic couldn't be more invalid, false or flawed.
Hello SOB, as long as your OK with my having friends that you don't agree with, everything's OK. I had a good Holiday, My whole family was here on Sat. and it was quite noisy, I like it quiet. I try to be honest even when others don't agree with me in the nosiest way possible. I like most classical music and many other genera, my piano is good even though I am late coming back to it and only know a few pieces. FYI my grandson is using my old cornet to learn to play, and I was getting the itch to pick it up again, so I bought a trumpet and am relearning to play, but it's a slow process, not sure I'll ever get back to where I was.
It's great that you play, whether you see it as simply trying/practice or otherwise. It's been said that, "Music hath charms to soothe the savage beast," and it sure has kept me going. Glad to hear you had some family noise so you'd recognize those quieter moments. ;-) And that's the funny thing about dichotomies, one of the pair is required to know the other! Well it sounds like it was nice. I hope you have a quiet soulful white Christmas with maybe only the crackle of a fireplace, until the gangbusters charge in, that is. ;-) Ha HA!!!

So Merry Christmas your way, while I have it my way. ;-)

thedoc
Posts: 6442
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:18 pm

Re: How God could fail to convey His message?

Post by thedoc » Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:41 am

SpheresOfBalance wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:56 pm

It's great that you play, whether you see it as simply trying/practice or otherwise. It's been said that, "Music hath charms to soothe the savage beast," and it sure has kept me going. Glad to hear you had some family noise so you'd recognize those quieter moments. ;-) And that's the funny thing about dichotomies, one of the pair is required to know the other! Well it sounds like it was nice. I hope you have a quiet soulful white Christmas with maybe only the crackle of a fireplace, until the gangbusters charge in, that is. ;-) Ha HA!!!

So Merry Christmas your way, while I have it my way. ;-)
I think I've found another ability that I can capitalize on. My user ID is something a few of my friends started calling me due to my ability to fix model trains, so I said my doctorate was in microferroequuenology. Now I have started buying trumpets at live auctions and selling them on EBay, after doing some work on them to get them in good condition. I'll see how things work out.

User avatar
SpheresOfBalance
Posts: 5239
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:27 pm
Location: On a Star Dust Metamorphosis

Re: How God could fail to convey His message?

Post by SpheresOfBalance » Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:42 pm

thedoc wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:41 am
SpheresOfBalance wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:56 pm

It's great that you play, whether you see it as simply trying/practice or otherwise. It's been said that, "Music hath charms to soothe the savage beast," and it sure has kept me going. Glad to hear you had some family noise so you'd recognize those quieter moments. ;-) And that's the funny thing about dichotomies, one of the pair is required to know the other! Well it sounds like it was nice. I hope you have a quiet soulful white Christmas with maybe only the crackle of a fireplace, until the gangbusters charge in, that is. ;-) Ha HA!!!

So Merry Christmas your way, while I have it my way. ;-)
I think I've found another ability that I can capitalize on. My user ID is something a few of my friends started calling me due to my ability to fix model trains, so I said my doctorate was in microferroequuenology. Now I have started buying trumpets at live auctions and selling them on EBay, after doing some work on them to get them in good condition. I'll see how things work out.
Awesome!!! Good luck with that! And Thanks!! Now I know not to buy any trumpets on eBay! ;-)

thedoc
Posts: 6442
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:18 pm

Re: How God could fail to convey His message?

Post by thedoc » Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:40 pm

SpheresOfBalance wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:42 pm
Awesome!!! Good luck with that! And Thanks!! Now I know not to buy any trumpets on eBay! ;-)
Very funny, but I don't list anything till I know it's good or I say exactly what I think of it. I just sold one that I had listed as a "trumpet shaped piece of brass tubing" and i said it sounded terrible and would make a good lamp or wall hanging. I don't think the bidders believed me as it sold for more than I expected. If you do need a trumpet and I say it's good, you will get a good trumpet, perhaps not a professional quality but a good solid instrument and everything will work as it should.

User avatar
SpheresOfBalance
Posts: 5239
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:27 pm
Location: On a Star Dust Metamorphosis

Re: How God could fail to convey His message?

Post by SpheresOfBalance » Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:41 pm

thedoc wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 3:40 pm
SpheresOfBalance wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:42 pm
Awesome!!! Good luck with that! And Thanks!! Now I know not to buy any trumpets on eBay! ;-)
Very funny, but I don't list anything till I know it's good or I say exactly what I think of it. I just sold one that I had listed as a "trumpet shaped piece of brass tubing" and i said it sounded terrible and would make a good lamp or wall hanging. I don't think the bidders believed me as it sold for more than I expected. If you do need a trumpet and I say it's good, you will get a good trumpet, perhaps not a professional quality but a good solid instrument and everything will work as it should.
You know I was just being playful, right? Just a joke, to tease you a bit. I'm sure you're a man of integrity. That you would not purposely sell anyone swampland on which to build. ;-)

Happy Holidays!

thedoc
Posts: 6442
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:18 pm

Re: How God could fail to convey His message?

Post by thedoc » Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:25 pm

SpheresOfBalance wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:41 pm
You know I was just being playful, right? Just a joke, to tease you a bit. I'm sure you're a man of integrity. That you would not purposely sell anyone swampland on which to build. ;-)

Happy Holidays!
Yes, and that has been my problem when I did try a retail business, I was too honest rather than just making the sale. I did best at jobs where I didn't have to sell anything but could spend all my time just making things, such as pieces or drawings. When I did have a retail hobby shop, I eventually closed it for lack of business, I would only stock items that I thought were a good product, rather than everything that sold.

Merry Christmas!

User avatar
SpheresOfBalance
Posts: 5239
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:27 pm
Location: On a Star Dust Metamorphosis

Re: How God could fail to convey His message?

Post by SpheresOfBalance » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:18 pm

thedoc wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 2:25 pm
SpheresOfBalance wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 1:41 pm
You know I was just being playful, right? Just a joke, to tease you a bit. I'm sure you're a man of integrity. That you would not purposely sell anyone swampland on which to build. ;-)

Happy Holidays!
Yes, and that has been my problem when I did try a retail business, I was too honest rather than just making the sale. I did best at jobs where I didn't have to sell anything but could spend all my time just making things, such as pieces or drawings. When I did have a retail hobby shop, I eventually closed it for lack of business, I would only stock items that I thought were a good product, rather than everything that sold.

Merry Christmas!
It just goes to show that even people that believe in fictitious beings can actually be good people that actually care about their fellow man. And that people that have come to realize they're agnostic, knowing neither side can "know," can be equally sympathetic of their fellow man's needs, wants and desires; Same ideas, different reasons for them. ;-)

Happy Holidays!

User avatar
Eodnhoj7
Posts: 2512
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:18 am

Re: How God could fail to convey His message?

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:46 pm

Noone asks the question: "What if we have failed in interpreting the message?" Why do we not ask ourselves: "Have we failed?" Is is pride, ignorance, or pride as ignorance?

User avatar
SpheresOfBalance
Posts: 5239
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:27 pm
Location: On a Star Dust Metamorphosis

Re: How God could fail to convey His message?

Post by SpheresOfBalance » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:14 pm

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:46 pm
Noone asks the question: "What if we have failed in interpreting the message?" Why do we not ask ourselves: "Have we failed?" Is is pride, ignorance, or pride as ignorance?
The question is, "How God could fail to convey His message?" Not: "What if we have failed in interpreting the message?" or "Have we failed?"

The OP's question encompasses those that have heard no message. Yours only concerns those that believe they have heard a message, Schizophrenics? Back in the day when those archaic people wrote the bible, they had no idea how the human body worked. Scientists of today now believe that Ezekiel had epilepsy. Back then the idea didn't even exist. How would anyone know, that has heard a message in their head, that they weren't simply schizophrenics?

I really worry about you people that hear messages in your heads. Thank goodness that I've never heard voices in my head that weren't my own.

Happy Holidays!

In the name of Jesus, one of many philosophers! I also celebrate Socrates day! ;-)

User avatar
Eodnhoj7
Posts: 2512
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:18 am

Re: How God could fail to convey His message?

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:28 pm

SpheresOfBalance wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:14 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:46 pm
Noone asks the question: "What if we have failed in interpreting the message?" Why do we not ask ourselves: "Have we failed?" Is is pride, ignorance, or pride as ignorance?
The question is, "How God could fail to convey His message?" Not: "What if we have failed in interpreting the message?" or "Have we failed?"

The question the question is inherent within the question process itself.

The OP's question encompasses those that have heard no message. Yours only concerns those that believe they have heard a message, Schizophrenics?
Schizophrenia is simply a mental disorder in which one cannot fully integrate into a society. Considering these beliefs formed societies what if modern society is schizophrenic by its own terms?
Back in the day when those archaic people wrote the bible, they had no idea how the human body worked.
And we still do not...But that is considering your point is right, plenty of archaeological evidence exists for surgeries, etc. 1000's of years ago. This is not a new fact.
Scientists of today now believe that Ezekiel had epilepsy. Back then the idea didn't even exist. How would anyone know, that has heard a message in their head, that they weren't simply schizophrenics?
"I am always right" is the constant voice modern people here today in there head, is that any different?

"The cause of most cases of epilepsy is unknown.[1] Some cases occur as the result of brain injury, stroke, brain tumors, infections of the brain, and birth defects, through a process known as epileptogenesis.[1][2][3] Known genetic mutations are directly linked to a small proportion of cases.[4][13] Epileptic seizures are the result of excessive and abnormal nerve cell activity in the cortex of the brain.[12] The diagnosis involves ruling out other conditions that might cause similar symptoms such as fainting and determining if another cause of seizures is present such as alcohol withdrawal or electrolyte problems.[4] This may be partly done by imaging the brain and performing blood tests."[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epilepsy

Would a person not have some form of epileptic symptoms if they "met" or "became aware of" a being greater than themselves? What happened to apply relativistic logic or observing the context of a situation?

I really worry about you people that hear messages in your heads. Thank goodness that I've never heard voices in my head that weren't my own.
I share the same perspective, however we must show some degree of respect (within the limits of reason) to a person's condition considering we do not fully know the source.

Even if it is strictly a result of a physical malfunction, as an extension of material universe, then by default the material world is forming concepts of spirituality on its own terms.


Happy Holidays!

In the name of Jesus, one of many philosophers! I also celebrate Socrates day! ;-)

User avatar
SpheresOfBalance
Posts: 5239
Joined: Sat Sep 10, 2011 4:27 pm
Location: On a Star Dust Metamorphosis

Re: How God could fail to convey His message?

Post by SpheresOfBalance » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:37 pm

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:28 pm
SpheresOfBalance wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:14 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:46 pm
Noone asks the question: "What if we have failed in interpreting the message?" Why do we not ask ourselves: "Have we failed?" Is is pride, ignorance, or pride as ignorance?
The question is, "How God could fail to convey His message?" Not: "What if we have failed in interpreting the message?" or "Have we failed?"

The question the question is inherent within the question process itself.

The OP's question encompasses those that have heard no message. Yours only concerns those that believe they have heard a message, Schizophrenics?
Schizophrenia is simply a mental disorder in which one cannot fully integrate into a society.
Incorrect, there is no use arguing with one that is either ignorant of the facts or falsely misrepresents them:

"Schizophrenia is a mental disorder characterized by abnormal social behavior and failure to understand what is real.[2] Common symptoms include false beliefs, unclear or confused thinking, hearing voices that others do not hear, reduced social engagement and emotional expression, and a lack of motivation." --Wikipedia--

So are you a liar or just confused?

Considering these beliefs formed societies what if modern society is schizophrenic by its own terms?

Back in the day when those archaic people wrote the bible, they had no idea how the human body worked.
And we still do not...But that is considering your point is right, plenty of archaeological evidence exists for surgeries, etc. 1000's of years ago. This is not a new fact.
Scientists of today now believe that Ezekiel had epilepsy. Back then the idea didn't even exist. How would anyone know, that has heard a message in their head, that they weren't simply schizophrenics?
"I am always right" is the constant voice modern people here today in there head, is that any different?

"The cause of most cases of epilepsy is unknown.[1] Some cases occur as the result of brain injury, stroke, brain tumors, infections of the brain, and birth defects, through a process known as epileptogenesis.[1][2][3] Known genetic mutations are directly linked to a small proportion of cases.[4][13] Epileptic seizures are the result of excessive and abnormal nerve cell activity in the cortex of the brain.[12] The diagnosis involves ruling out other conditions that might cause similar symptoms such as fainting and determining if another cause of seizures is present such as alcohol withdrawal or electrolyte problems.[4] This may be partly done by imaging the brain and performing blood tests."[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epilepsy

Would a person not have some form of epileptic symptoms if they "met" or "became aware of" a being greater than themselves? What happened to apply relativistic logic or observing the context of a situation?

I really worry about you people that hear messages in your heads. Thank goodness that I've never heard voices in my head that weren't my own.
I share the same perspective, however we must show some degree of respect (within the limits of reason) to a person's condition considering we do not fully know the source.

Even if it is strictly a result of a physical malfunction, as an extension of material universe, then by default the material world is forming concepts of spirituality on its own terms.


Happy Holidays!

In the name of Jesus, one of many philosophers! I also celebrate Socrates day! ;-)

User avatar
Eodnhoj7
Posts: 2512
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:18 am

Re: How God could fail to convey His message?

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:05 pm

SpheresOfBalance wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:37 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:28 pm
SpheresOfBalance wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:14 pm

The question is, "How God could fail to convey His message?" Not: "What if we have failed in interpreting the message?" or "Have we failed?"

The question the question is inherent within the question process itself.

The OP's question encompasses those that have heard no message. Yours only concerns those that believe they have heard a message, Schizophrenics?
Schizophrenia is simply a mental disorder in which one cannot fully integrate into a society.
Incorrect, there is no use arguing with one that is either ignorant of the facts or falsely misrepresents them:
"Schizophrenia is a mental disorder characterized by abnormal social behavior and failure to understand what is real.[2]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizophrenia

"Social behavior is behavior among two or more organisms, typically from the same species."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_behavior

"Reality can be defined in a way that links it to worldviews or parts of them (conceptual frameworks): Reality is the totality of all things, structures (actual and conceptual), events (past and present) and phenomena, whether observable or not. It is what a world view (whether it be based on individual or shared human experience) ultimately attempts to describe or map."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality


"Schizophrenia is a mental disorder characterized by abnormal social behavior and failure to understand what is real.[2] Common symptoms include false beliefs, unclear or confused thinking, hearing voices that others do not hear, reduced social engagement and emotional expression, and a lack of motivation." --Wikipedia--

So are you a liar or just confused?
Is that how you feel about yourself? Are you a liar or just confused? Considering reality is formed from and through perspective, and perspective in turn is affected by that very same reality, the nature of what we call social behavior is simply congruence with a mass perspective...and what does the mass perspective say about reality? "I think..."x"... is real. I believe..."x"...is real."


Considering these beliefs formed societies what if modern society is schizophrenic by its own terms?

Back in the day when those archaic people wrote the bible, they had no idea how the human body worked.
And we still do not...But that is considering your point is right, plenty of archaeological evidence exists for surgeries, etc. 1000's of years ago. This is not a new fact.
Scientists of today now believe that Ezekiel had epilepsy. Back then the idea didn't even exist.
But according to your standards are ideas even real? If that is the case is epilepsy real, or just a category formed by group agreement?

How would anyone know, that has heard a message in their head, that they weren't simply schizophrenics?
How do we know that labeling everything we do not understand as schizophrenic, isn't schizophrenic? Considering there are a wide range of groups claiming the phrase "this is how reality exists", do not people who argue schizophrenia fall under that same group?

"I am always right" is the constant voice modern people here today in there head, is that any different?

"The cause of most cases of epilepsy is unknown.[1] Some cases occur as the result of brain injury, stroke, brain tumors, infections of the brain, and birth defects, through a process known as epileptogenesis.[1][2][3] Known genetic mutations are directly linked to a small proportion of cases.[4][13] Epileptic seizures are the result of excessive and abnormal nerve cell activity in the cortex of the brain.[12] The diagnosis involves ruling out other conditions that might cause similar symptoms such as fainting and determining if another cause of seizures is present such as alcohol withdrawal or electrolyte problems.[4] This may be partly done by imaging the brain and performing blood tests."[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epilepsy

Would a person not have some form of epileptic symptoms if they "met" or "became aware of" a being greater than themselves? What happened to apply relativistic logic or observing the context of a situation?

I really worry about you people that hear messages in your heads. Thank goodness that I've never heard voices in my head that weren't my own.
I share the same perspective, however we must show some degree of respect (within the limits of reason) to a person's condition considering we do not fully know the source.

Even if it is strictly a result of a physical malfunction, as an extension of material universe, then by default the material world is forming concepts of spirituality on its own terms.


Happy Holidays!

In the name of Jesus, one of many philosophers! I also celebrate Socrates day! ;-)
Socrates heard messages in his head....

thedoc
Posts: 6442
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:18 pm

Re: How God could fail to convey His message?

Post by thedoc » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:14 pm

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:46 pm
Noone asks the question: "What if we have failed in interpreting the message?" Why do we not ask ourselves: "Have we failed?" Is is pride, ignorance, or pride as ignorance?
Incorrect, on the first and third page of this thread, at least, both Immanuel Can and I asked that question.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=19589
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=19589&start=30

User avatar
Eodnhoj7
Posts: 2512
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:18 am

Re: How God could fail to convey His message?

Post by Eodnhoj7 » Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:18 pm

thedoc wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:14 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:46 pm
Noone asks the question: "What if we have failed in interpreting the message?" Why do we not ask ourselves: "Have we failed?" Is is pride, ignorance, or pride as ignorance?
Incorrect, on the first and third page of this thread, at least, both Immanuel Can and I asked that question.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=19589
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=19589&start=30
You are right, but I was implying a generallity as the majority do not ask this question (even off this or any forum). I agree with you and stand corrected to a degree, but you are a real small minority and the point still stands.

thedoc
Posts: 6442
Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:18 pm

Re: How God could fail to convey His message?

Post by thedoc » Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:37 pm

Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:18 pm
thedoc wrote:
Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:14 pm
Eodnhoj7 wrote:
Wed Dec 13, 2017 7:46 pm
Noone asks the question: "What if we have failed in interpreting the message?" Why do we not ask ourselves: "Have we failed?" Is is pride, ignorance, or pride as ignorance?
Incorrect, on the first and third page of this thread, at least, both Immanuel Can and I asked that question.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=19589
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=19589&start=30
You are right, but I was implying a generallity as the majority do not ask this question (even off this or any forum). I agree with you and stand corrected to a degree, but you are a real small minority and the point still stands.
Thankyou, but I do agree that pride as ignorance is probably the most important reason that people misinterpret what is written in the Bible and other sacred writings.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 17 guests