Relativity?

How does science work? And what's all this about quantum mechanics?

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davidm
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Re: Relativity?

Post by davidm » Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:15 pm

ken wrote:
Sat Oct 21, 2017 9:46 pm
davidm wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:16 am
If you say that only humans have points of view, then why do you keep asking what point of view humans would have traveling at c, which is impossible for humans to do? :?
I am NOT the one who is asking that at all. You are the one who is giving the answer to that question, for some unknown reason. WHY is it that you can NOT read and understand the actual questions I have asked?
It's you who cannot read or understand -- you can't even understand what you write!

You wrote:
Although I also see all of that is good and true I did make it quite clear, from the outset, that I KNOW the stated fact that physical bodies do not and can not travel at the speed of light. I just asked people to imagine IF it was possible, and then proceeded to asked some clarifying questions in regards to that.
Yes, and this has been answered, as have all your other questions. Either you don't understand the answers or you don't like the answers.

ken
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Re: Relativity?

Post by ken » Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:32 am

davidm wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:42 am
ken wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:32 am
davidm wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:29 am




What are you babbling about now? :?
If just asking a clarifying question to you is drivel, then so be it. If you can not answer questions, then just carry on the way you are.
It's drivel because your question makes no sense. What are you actually asking?
Talk about being blinded by one's own beliefs and assumptions. The ACTUAL questions I am asking are the ones that I have ACTUALLY written down, obviously. The reason WHY you can NOT see them, which is also obvious by the way, is because you are looking at them from a presumptive perspective.
davidm wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:42 am
Fact: evolution is observed to occur. Theory: the theory of evolution explains how and why it occurs, and allows scientists to make predictions and retrodictions. If it should happen that the predictions and retrodictions don't pan out, then the theory would have to be revised or discarded in favor of something that is more predictive or retrodictive. A theory is map of the territory, but not THE territory. Maps are often revised. So are theories.

]Fact: time dilation and length contraction are observed to occur. Theory: relativity.
Thought experiment: how long does a trip take over a distance of four light years traveling at the speed of light?

Note. The sun revolved around the earth and the earth is flat was, and still is, observed to occur. What is observed to occur is not necessarily actual fact. Also, why make a map of an assumed territory, and look at that map when, instead, you can just look at the territory directly and only, and then see the map as, and for, what It IS?
davidm wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:42 am
If you have a better theory to explain observed facts (muon decay, gravitational lensing, GPS devices, etc. etc. etc.) then spill it and you'll win the Nobel Prize in physics!
Again, another one concerned about prizes. What is it with you human beings and prizes? Are you that self-centred that what is of most concern to you is being recognized for some thing and being rewarded for thst?

Also, there is no rush. I reveal things when I am good and ready.

By the way, so called, "observed facts" are NOT always actual facts, and thus end up being obviously just distorted "facts". This distorting of the real and true facts has already been shown to occur that many times before that I wonder why human beings are still so sure of themselves, in what they observed. You would think they would have learned by now. Anyway, the reason of how and why human beings continue to distort the factual truth is obvious. It is just a shame that most are not yet open enough to seeing this.

ken
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Re: Relativity?

Post by ken » Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:34 am

davidm wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:43 am
ken wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:34 am
davidm wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:29 am


This babble means nothing. Can you clarify?
Your attempts at deflecting away from your inability to answer very simple questions is not helping you.
Only you are deluded enough to imagine this. Uwot and I have answered all your questions, repeatedly.
You repeatedly say this.

If that is what you believe, then end of story. Why continue on?

ken
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Re: Relativity?

Post by ken » Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:53 am

thedoc wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:37 am
ken wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:48 am
People called "scientists" do the exact same thing also. Although people believe they may not do it, it will soon be realized just how much they all, subliminally, do it.

People who call themselves scientists may like to think and/or believe they do that, but the actual truth is more revealing.

And gain the process you describe is an extremely very cumbersome and very long drawn out process, especially compared to the much easier, simpler, and quicker way to find and discover what the actual truth IS.
"People who call themselves scientists" you've just identified your self as a science denier and a creationist, there's no point in trying to tell you anything, you'll just deny it.
If that is what you have seen in what I have written in this post, and you believe that, then there, My friends, is the undeniable evidence for what I have been talking about throughout this forum.

That is all people distort the actual truth, and/or are completely blinded from the actual truth, because of and by their own previously held assumptions and beliefs.

By the way, people who call themselves "creationists" are just the same as the people who call themselves "scientists", in that they all have their own predetermined set of views and beliefs, which is what the actual things are that is stopping them all from seeing the actual and real truth of Life. The actual truth is far more revealing then what these people believe is the case.

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Dontaskme
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Re: Relativity?

Post by Dontaskme » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:10 am

ken wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:53 am

That is all people distort the actual truth, and/or are completely blinded from the actual truth, because of and by their own previously held assumptions and beliefs.
The above statement is also an assumptive belief.

.

davidm
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Re: Relativity?

Post by davidm » Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:24 pm

ken wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:32 am
Thought experiment: how long does a trip take over a distance of four light years traveling at the speed of light?
I've already answered this question -- several times. Scroll back and look for the answers. Good luck!

davidm
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Re: Relativity?

Post by davidm » Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:35 pm

The theory of relativity is not based on "assumptions and beliefs." The theory itself rests on two postulates -- that the speed of light is the same as measured in all inertial frames, and that the laws of physics are the same in all such frames. Both postulates are observed to be true. Out of that falls the rest of the theory.

The theory, and general relativity, has been repeatedly empirically verified over the last 100 years. You cannot ask anything more of a successful theory. I doubt Ken understands this.

I wonder if Ken has a smart phone with a GPS device? If he does, I wonder what Ken infers from this? :?

thedoc
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Re: Relativity?

Post by thedoc » Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:47 pm

ken wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:53 am
By the way, people who call themselves "creationists" are just the same as the people who call themselves "scientists", in that they all have their own predetermined set of views and beliefs, which is what the actual things are that is stopping them all from seeing the actual and real truth of Life.
No, this is wrong, a Creationist tries to prove his predetermined set of values and beliefs no matter how much he has to distort the evidence or lie. Scientists set their own personal beliefs aside and looks at what the evidence tells them and draw conclusions from the evidence even if it contradicts what was believed before looking at the evidence. And if it does the Scientist will change beliefs according to the evidence. Quite different from a Creationist who will do or say anything rather than change beliefs according to the evidence

davidm
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Re: Relativity?

Post by davidm » Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:08 pm

thedoc wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:47 pm
ken wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:53 am
By the way, people who call themselves "creationists" are just the same as the people who call themselves "scientists", in that they all have their own predetermined set of views and beliefs, which is what the actual things are that is stopping them all from seeing the actual and real truth of Life.
No, this is wrong, a Creationist tries to prove his predetermined set of values and beliefs no matter how much he has to distort the evidence or lie. Scientists set their own personal beliefs aside and looks at what the evidence tells them and draw conclusions from the evidence even if it contradicts what was believed before looking at the evidence. And if it does the Scientist will change beliefs according to the evidence. Quite different from a Creationist who will do or say anything rather than change beliefs according to the evidence
Talking to ken is sort of like talking to peacegirl. :?

He also seems to be implying (like peacegirl) that he knows "the actual and real truth of Life." If so, perhaps he would like to share that with us lower sods. I'm not aware that he has done so, so far.

davidm
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Re: Relativity?

Post by davidm » Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:51 pm

Real-World Relativity: The GPS Navigation System

From the above link, bold mine:
The engineers who designed the GPS system included these relativistic effects when they designed and deployed the system.
Now tell us all about the “real truth,” Ken. :?

davidm
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Re: Relativity?

Post by davidm » Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:57 pm

Notice from the above that GPS must take into account time dilation from BOTH special relativity (relative motion) AND general relativity (gravity wells.) Ingenious, and yet another resounding validation of Einstein. As the essay concludes:
Relativity is not just some abstract mathematical theory: understanding it is absolutely essential for our global navigation system to work properly!
But we’ll all wait on tenterhooks for ken to tell us what the “real truth” is and why our global navigation system based on special relativity and general relativity doesn't work properly even though it does! :lol:

thedoc
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Re: Relativity?

Post by thedoc » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:58 pm

ken wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:53 am
By the way, people who call themselves "creationists" are just the same as the people who call themselves "scientists", in that they all have their own predetermined set of views and beliefs, which is what the actual things are that is stopping them all from seeing the actual and real truth of Life.
What is this "real truth of life" that you see but real Scientists don't see, most of us understand that Creationists only see the world through the filter of their Mythology, like Peacegirl only sees the world through the filter of her Daddy's writings. If it's in the Bible it's got to be true, if it's in Seymour Lessans Book it's got to be true, if it wasn't true he would have said so, like the Bible says it's the infallible word of God. (Actually it is, it's just that people have fucked up the interpretation).

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Lacewing
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Re: Relativity?

Post by Lacewing » Sun Oct 22, 2017 10:10 pm

ken wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:53 am
That is all people distort the actual truth, and/or are completely blinded from the actual truth, because of and by their own previously held assumptions and beliefs.
Dontaskme wrote: The above statement is also an assumptive belief.
Yes! That is your belief, Ken. Additionally, you often seem to imply that you are not as limited/distorted in the ways that other people are. However, if such ideas are your OWN beliefs, does that mean you are seeing yourself as above/beyond your own beliefs? :lol:
davidm wrote: He also seems to be implying (like peacegirl) that he knows "the actual and real truth of Life."
Yes, he often seems to imply that.

Thought experiment, Ken: Is not everything part of the actual truth of life? This is like asking a theist: "What is NOT of God?" What does not belong? What does not fit? What is not a perfect part of the whole? Who decides that... and why do they decide that?

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Dontaskme
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Re: Relativity?

Post by Dontaskme » Mon Oct 23, 2017 6:53 am

davidm wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:24 pm

I've already answered this question -- several times. Scroll back and look for the answers. Good luck!
It doesn't matter how many times you answer him, you can go on forever giving clarifications until your blue in the face, and he'll still demand more clarifications and more answers from you. So good luck trying to reach any mutual agreement or conclusion about anything in this discussion.

.

uwot
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Re: Relativity?

Post by uwot » Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:54 am

davidm wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:24 pm
ken wrote:
Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:32 am
Thought experiment: how long does a trip take over a distance of four light years traveling at the speed of light?
I've already answered this question -- several times.
Haven't we all? The "real truth of Life" is that something is definitely going on. We can observe it, measure it and describe it mathematically to incredible precision, but we cannot say for certain what the cause is. As Kant pointed out, there is the phenomenon and the noumenon; the first we can see, the second we can only guess at.

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