How to exit the religious mess!

[Arising_uk]

You've avoided the question.

Is the severed arm aware of itself?

Of course not but you ignored that the CNS can still 'think' it is there.

You said the body is aware, if that is true, then the severed arm will know it has been severed...don't forget the arm is now detached from the CNS...how is that arm aware now it is detached from the rest of the body...?

Once again you are mixing and matching this term 'awareness' what do you mean when you use it?

The body is aware of itself, how do you think you it notifies itself of an injury?

Here, is it seen that parts can never be aware, there is only ever wholeness aware of it's parts.

Try the experiment of noticing whilst sitting if the body moves itself to get comfortable before you become aware that it has done so. The body does such things all the time to keep balance without you being aware of this.

[Arising_uk]

Things are ''thoughts'' ... You are aware of the thought something, something that is itself not a thought.

Which makes it a thing and hence not a thought.

[Arising_uk]

The apparent gap between the views that 'I am this person' and 'there is no person' cannot be bridged by thought. ...

Of course it can't because it is meaningless.

The insight that there is 'no one there' is prior to thought and thought, however eloquent, logic and refined can never reach 'prior to thought'.

Insight is a thought?

What do you mean by 'thought' when you say 'prior to thought'?

[Arising_uk]

If I didn't move my body then it cannot be my body. ...

Yes it can as body is prior to you, you are the body's.

I am the non-moving awareness of the body moving in me.

I literally have no idea what you mean by "non-moving awareness" as where would an awareness be if not in a moving body?

[Arising_uk]

I cannot be the action itself, actions are one unitary movement, so there are only reactions, as awareness becomes aware of what happened after it has already happened.

There are also causes and you can be a cause.

[Arising_uk]

No, looking with the mind within the mind will turn up more mind/thought. ...

Well of course, try looking and listening to the boddy.

The mind is the 'dual dividing knife' ..clarity is the 'non-dual glue'.... much simpler than the mind can imagine. Not something known, but the unknowable knowing in which every some-thing arises and dissolves.

Quite literally meaningless to me. What are you trying to say?

[Dontaskme]

I cannot be the action itself, actions are one unitary movement, so there are only reactions, as awareness becomes aware of what happened after it has already happened.

There are also causes and you can be a cause.

What you are is beyond cause and effect duality...you are the causeless causer.

You Arising_uk speak from the perspective of the dream character, whereas I Dontaskme speak form the sources mouth the dreamer itself.

The two can never meet since the dream character is a fictional character, and the dreamer is one.

So any questions that do arise, it's got no one to answer to but itself.

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[Belinda]

Dontaskme wrote:

There is no ''separate'' watcher. There is only watching watching itself.

But you have claimed that there are immutable selves. If immutable selves are not watchers what are they?

[Dontaskme]

I literally have no idea what you mean by "non-moving awareness" as where would an awareness be if not in a moving body?

How would the concept moving be known if not for it's opposite?

What is about you that doesn't change, doesn't move, does not age... awareness of course.

The body changes, it gets old, it gets tired one minute, the next minute it's got lots of energy, thoughts change, ideas change, feelings change, every thing changes ..but does the awareness of everything ever change..no it doesn't. If it did, your reality would be nothing more than bits and bobs of fragmented reality...but it's not fragmented at all, it's completely seamless.

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[Dontaskme]

Dontaskme wrote:

There is no ''separate'' watcher. There is only watching watching itself.

But you have claimed that there are immutable selves. If immutable selves are not watchers what are they?

No, I said Immutable SELF....there are no selves.

Selves are the watched...inseparable from the watcher.

That which is watched cannot watch.

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[Arising_uk]

How would the concept moving be known if not for it's opposite?

So what is a moving awareness?

What is about you that doesn't change, doesn't move, does not age... awareness of course. ...

Once again you'll have to explain what you mean by "awareness"(not that you have yet).

The body changes, it gets old, it gets tired one minute, the next minute it's got lots of energy, thoughts change, ideas change, feelings change, every thing changes ..but does the awareness of everything ever change..no it doesn't. ...

All that doesn't change is the being of being this body. Not sure what you mean by awareness here?

If it did, your reality would be nothing more than bits and bobs of fragmented reality...but it's not fragmented at all, it's completely seamless.

I get what you mean but this happens because you fill in the bits, pay attention and you'll find that every night there is a big fragmentation.

[Dontaskme]

How would the concept moving be known if not for it's opposite?

So what is a moving awareness?

Awareness is synonymous to space it doesn't move and like space it is essential for any movement to be possible, while it itself cannot and does not move.

And since the contents of space are inseparable from the space they are in, any movement is within the perfect stillness of space itself, so nothing is actually going anywhere, there is only here now, nowhere... moving and not moving, apparently going places yet not going anywhere...for there is nowhere to go but here.

Awareness is the unmoved mover.

When latent awareness knows sensation consciousness/mind is born.

Without the mind no concept is known, concepts are ideas and thoughts...these concepts are only known, they have never been seen.



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[Dontaskme]

All that doesn't change is the being of being this body. Not sure what you mean by awareness here?

Beingness is synonymous with Awareness, it's just difference labels for the same thing.

There is no thing being the beingness, there is only beingness.

You keep identifying with the body as if it belongs to you...the body doesn't belong to anyone.

There is nobody in a body being that body.

So who looks out of the eyes of the body?....pure awareness does, and the reason I say pure, is because awareness doesn't have a body, it's not an object...the body is just an object arising in and known by unseen awareness.

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[Hobbes' Choice]

... you obviously enjoy masturbating with yourself.

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that's the whole point of masturbating. Having sex with someone else os not masturbating.

[Arising_uk]

Awareness is synonymous to space it doesn't move and like space it is essential for any movement to be possible, while it itself cannot and does not move. ...

You said a concept cannot be known unless by its opposite, so what is a moving awareness?

Come to think of it, what is a moving space?

You do know that Space is apparently expanding don't you?

So space has a beingness does it? Given you said awareness is beingness.

And since the contents of space are inseparable from the space they are in, any movement is within the perfect stillness of space itself, so nothing is actually going anywhere, there is only here now, nowhere... moving and not moving, apparently going places yet not going anywhere...for there is nowhere to go but here. ...

I'm puzzled? You said it's concepts and thoughts, all inside and all an illusion, no external world, and no thoughts to boot, so what is this 'space' you talk about?

Awareness is the unmoved mover.

And yet the body moves?

When latent awareness knows sensation consciousness/mind is born.

What is 'latent awareness' when its at home?

Without the mind no concept is known, concepts are ideas and thoughts...these concepts are only known, they have never been seen.

You see ideas and thoughts all day long if you pay attention.