And somewhere in this, you read "Blessed are the bully-fighters"? I'm not seeing what you're seeing. And certainly not, "Blessed are the vengeful."Jesus. Blessed are the peacemakers. Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after righteousness.Blessed are the merciful.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:44 pmThat's a new teaching to me...what part of the Bible are you thinking of there?
Secularism versus the Demonization of Atheists
- Immanuel Can
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Re: Secularism versus the Demonization of Atheists
Re: Secularism versus the Demonization of Atheists
We have to pick sides and make a stand.This does not necessarily involve visible heroics, but always involves personal risk .Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:09 amAnd somewhere in this, you read "Blessed are the bully-fighters"? I'm not seeing what you're seeing. And certainly not, "Blessed are the vengeful."Jesus. Blessed are the peacemakers. Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after righteousness.Blessed are the merciful.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Aug 27, 2017 2:44 pm
That's a new teaching to me...what part of the Bible are you thinking of there?
Re: Secularism versus the Demonization of Atheists
PS. Vengeance is bad not for itself, as I said it's good to know one's 'shadow' nature(Jung). What matters is conscious awareness of what one aspires to, even if vengeance adulterate the mixture. Nobody said that any human being is JC himself.
The place of religious devotions in this scenario is to inspire with the courage to take the right side. The right side is well expressed by Jesus: The Beatitudes. And other great literature.
The place of religious devotions in this scenario is to inspire with the courage to take the right side. The right side is well expressed by Jesus: The Beatitudes. And other great literature.
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Re: Secularism versus the Demonization of Atheists
This part is actually somewhat Biblical, but not at all in the way you're thinking.
There is absolutely no call to resolve the political ills of the world. The personal ills, sure. The social ills, through charity or mercy, sure. But not to appropriate the political machinery of the State to achieve the imposition of a vision of the future on society. In fact, that is denounced.
Biblically, justice is the result of individual moral acts (on one hand) or of Divine action (on the other). Between those two, there is no third political option.
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Re: Secularism versus the Demonization of Atheists
PS. In the case of Divine Judgment, this is true; but in the case of all human actions, actually, it is. Vengeance is allowable only to Someone who has perfect knowledge of the truth and perfect judgment in dealing out what is fit. That describes no human being at all, and definitely no political machine. In Romans 12:19, for example, Christians are expressly forbidden ever to take vengeance, since right retribution is the exclusive province of God Himself, as you can see.
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Re: Secularism versus the Demonization of Atheists
For anyone interested in political collectivist solutions, here is the latest Leftist "success" story:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDxH8cFqj0s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDxH8cFqj0s
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Re: Secularism versus the Demonization of Atheists
You don't think that the engineered oil price collapse has anything to do with it?
Re: Secularism versus the Demonization of Atheists
Immanuel Can wrote:
Paul's advice is suited to enslaved peoples whose welfare is best got by humble posturing, but any society that enjoins slavishness among its workers deserves a revolution, violent if necessary.
It's only human to feel vengeful. God is incapable of worldly justice so human laws should take account of the reality of human nature. Laws are for keeping order and getting often unruly people to cooperate. When a rapacious or cruel ruling class oppresses people then vengeful feelings and actual vengeance are good.In Romans 12:19, for example, Christians are expressly forbidden ever to take vengeance, since right retribution is the exclusive province of God Himself, as you can see.
Paul's advice is suited to enslaved peoples whose welfare is best got by humble posturing, but any society that enjoins slavishness among its workers deserves a revolution, violent if necessary.
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Re: Secularism versus the Demonization of Atheists
What humans feel is often not good.
We'll see. That is yet to be established. That He's patient is obvious...but being the Supreme Being has certain advantages. One can wait quite a long time, and still make justice happen.God is incapable of worldly justice
so human laws should take account of the reality of human nature.
This is true. But that reality is often negative.
They would be...if the revenge-taker were absolutely knowledgeable, righteous and fair. Otherwise, all you're doing is substituting one kind of injustice for another.Laws are for keeping order and getting often unruly people to cooperate. When a rapacious or cruel ruling class oppresses people then vengeful feelings and actual vengeance are good.
As The Who sang, in "Won't Be Fooled Again," the violence of the Revolution overthrows one oppression, and then establishes its own. Or to put it in their words, "Meet the new boss / Same as the old boss."...any society that enjoins slavishness among its workers deserves a revolution, violent if necessary.
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Re: Secularism versus the Demonization of Atheists
You are not very bright. You need to see the bigger picture.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 2:19 pm For anyone interested in political collectivist solutions, here is the latest Leftist "success" story:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDxH8cFqj0s
BTW. Your mate Jesus was a socialist.
You are a poor christian.
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Re: Secularism versus the Demonization of Atheists
Ad hominems are pointless. I'm amazed by now you haven't figured out they don't trouble me in the least.Hobbes' Choice wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:06 pm You are not very bright. You need to see the bigger picture.
BTW. Your mate Jesus was a socialist.
You are a poor christian.
Best wishes to you.
Re: Secularism versus the Demonization of Atheists
Those weren't ad hominems. They were straight-up descriptions of you.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:47 pmAd hominems are pointless. I'm amazed by now you haven't figured out they don't trouble me in the least.Hobbes' Choice wrote: ↑Mon Aug 28, 2017 6:06 pm You are not very bright. You need to see the bigger picture.
BTW. Your mate Jesus was a socialist.
You are a poor christian.
Best wishes to you.
And yes, they trouble you. Fundy christians are very thin-skinned.
Re: Secularism versus the Demonization of Atheists
You see, ICan, your imaginary bloodthirsty, vengeful sky monster is nothing more than a projection of your own psyche -- your inner desire to punish, for eternity if you could, people who are different from you. That is the entirety of your disgusting religion. You talk about people changing themselves. Look first to the beam in your own eye.
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