That's good news!
... the terminal disorder known as "life".
This is what abortionists always do: define their victims down to nothing. Ignore their brainwaves, their independent circulatory system, their heartbeats, their fingerprints, their viability and the certainty of their future place among the community of persons -- call them, "nothing but squish cells," and they you can kill then without compunction.
No, it's not logical. You have no way to explain why "order" deserves the adjective "precious," and "rarity" isn't necessarily a "precious" thing at all. Today, in the West, at least, polio is rare. That doesn't make it "more precious" than health.Causing harm and suffering for kicks to intelligent animals capable of emotional suffering is the worst thing anyone can do. Thus, if that's not morally wrong, then nothing is.The logical explanation is that order is more rare and precious than disorder.Immanuel Can wrote:Yes, it's morally wrong. But you have no logical explanation for why you say it is. In a merely material universe, nothing is actually wrong...not even that.
Those tend to be the most common ways wild animals die regardless of overpopulation. They don't usually die from complications of old-age like the human species does. It's why most mammals live far longer in a zoo. Not aquatic ones of course.thedoc wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:45 pmYes overpopulation is a temporary situation, the wild population will rise out of control till everything is sick, starving and dying. Not only the large herbivore prey animals, but all ground dwelling herbivore will be wiped out for lack of food. What IC has described in the swamp near his home has been reported numerous times before, a total lack of green as high as the deer can reach.Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote: ↑Fri Aug 04, 2017 2:06 am I was going to say that overpopulation of a species is a mostly temporal, self-fixing problem, unless it's good at adapting to new or bare minimum resources, or is a dangerous animal.
I don't know if it's about 'dehumanizing' them for a moral agenda as it is finding a real basis for why human life is actually valued over other kinds of life. I think most people tend to agree that our intelligence plays a big role in the roots of this basis but they don't agree how this principle should be implemented. They get conflicted and blend together a use of both deontological ethics and utilitarianism, which in my opinion just does not work. It leads to some pretty inconsistent results.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:47 pmThis is what abortionists always do: define their victims down to nothing. Ignore their brainwaves, their independent circulatory system, their heartbeats, their fingerprints, their viability and the certainty of their future place among the community of persons -- call them, "nothing but squish cells," and they you can kill then without compunction.
It worked for the Nazis with the Jews, enabling human beings to kill human beings without reservation: why would dehumanization not work for abortionists?
Good point.Sir-Sister-of-Suck wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2017 8:45 pmI don't know if it's about 'dehumanizing' them for a moral agenda as it is finding a real basis for why human life is actually valued over other kinds of life. I think most people tend to agree that our intelligence plays a big role in the roots of this basis but they don't agree how this principle should be implemented.
Absolutely right. Or just as bad, they throw in some kind of ungrounded virtue-ethic approach, which conflicts with BOTH.They get conflicted and blend together a use of both deontological ethics and utilitarianism, which in my opinion just does not work. It leads to some pretty inconsistent results.
That sounds a lot like conservative Christians sending those squishy things off to their doom in Iraq twenty years later because God told GWB to liberate Iraq.Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:47 pmThis is what abortionists always do: define their victims down to nothing. Ignore their brainwaves, their independent circulatory system, their heartbeats, their fingerprints, their viability and the certainty of their future place among the community of persons -- call them, "nothing but squish cells," and they you can kill then without compunction.
Godwin's Law is invoked!Immanuel Can wrote:It worked for the Nazis with the Jews, enabling human beings to kill human beings without reservation: why would dehumanization not work for abortionists?
What makes the war in Iraq a "Christian" issue? I'm unaware of that dimension of its motivation, but please do enlighten me.
Always a pleasure, Mr Can: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/oct/07/iraq.usaImmanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:27 pmWhat makes the war in Iraq a "Christian" issue? I'm unaware of that dimension of its motivation, but please do enlighten me.
Well, again, Mr Can: when do you believe your god puts a soul in an embryo, and at what point does it become immortal?Immanuel Can wrote: ↑Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:47 pmIt worked for the Nazis with the Jews, enabling human beings to kill human beings without reservation: why would dehumanization not work for abortionists?
That's the quote :)uwot wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:32 pmAlways a pleasure, Mr Can: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/oct/07/iraq.usaImmanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:27 pmWhat makes the war in Iraq a "Christian" issue? I'm unaware of that dimension of its motivation, but please do enlighten me.
I always thought that G W Bush was quite a pleasant man, and I am inclined to believe that he was not very bright but was a puppet of big Oil.Greta wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:17 pmThat's the quoteuwot wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:32 pmAlways a pleasure, Mr Can: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/oct/07/iraq.usaImmanuel Can wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:27 pmWhat makes the war in Iraq a "Christian" issue? I'm unaware of that dimension of its motivation, but please do enlighten me.
His family was part of Big Oil. I wonder what the world would be like today if, in response to the 11 Sept attacks GWB declared that the US would move to renewable energy and rub the terrorists of their oil revenue? The terrorists would have drifted into irrelevance through lack of resources and billions today would face a safer future through slowing of climate change. However, Bush was an oil man so that was an impossibility.Belinda wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:39 pmI always thought that G W Bush was quite a pleasant man, and I am inclined to believe that he was not very bright but was a puppet of big Oil.Greta wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2017 2:17 pmThat's the quoteuwot wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2017 1:32 pm Always a pleasure, Mr Can: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/oct/07/iraq.usa