What causes porn addiction???

Can philosophers help resolve the real problems that people have in their lives?

Moderators: AMod, iMod

Post Reply
Morpheus
Posts: 106
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:19 pm
Location: UK

Re: What causes porn addiction???

Post by Morpheus » Thu May 21, 2009 1:26 pm

Here's one UK site with reliable multi-agency information on the issue of human trafficking.

http://www.ukhtc.org/#about" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here are the statistics from UNESCO

http://portal.unesco.org/shs/en/ev.php- ... N=201.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Rather than calling for censorship, I'm suggesting that we educate ourselves about all the inhumanities involved with the porn industry, thus encouraging reasonable people to stop buying it and/or viewing over the Internet. Those already addicted and emotionally damaged need professional help. The Internet is the most dangerous place for violent and sadistic porn, since children can easily gain access to it. And indeed, they are. Not all parents are vigilant.

We need to reduce the market for hardcore porn, thus there will be less incentive for porn merchants to create such material. A step in the right direction is that major hotel chains are now considering not to offer porn movies in hotel rooms.

Richard Baron
Posts: 204
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:55 am
Contact:

Re: What causes porn addiction???

Post by Richard Baron » Thu May 21, 2009 2:20 pm

Thanks for the statistics, Morpheus.

It is striking how tiny the UK figures are (in the statistical reports that you can find by clicking on "Statistics" in the left sidebar). That will partly be explained by the fact that they are figures for court cases, and one doesn't know what proportion of cases that would involve offences, actually get to court. I don't mean that a few victims don't matter. They do. But one may reasonably be sceptical of some of the claims that are made about there being a problem that is large enough to require changes in policy, rather than efficient enforcement of the laws that we already have.

The UNESCO site acknowledges, with refreshing honesty, that there are lots of things that we do not know, and that some of the data we have may be unreliable.

So I come back to worrying about the lack of good grounds for believing that certain actions in relation to porn will have certain effects in relation to trafficking.

Having said that, if the proposed action is to expose the workings of the porn industry and to leave people to decide for themselves whether to go on viewing porn, that's fine. That would simply be another voice in the agora, not a violation of our freedom. It could even lead to the rise of ethically produced porn.

Morpheus
Posts: 106
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:19 pm
Location: UK

Re: What causes porn addiction???

Post by Morpheus » Thu May 21, 2009 3:26 pm

Yes that's more or less where I'm coming from Richard - if indeed, there is such a thing as ethical porn! I go back to my earlier suggestion of promoting old-fashioned erotica, which always leaves a lot to the imagination, rather than showing explicit violent, sadistic sex. Porn addicts have become de-sensitised to scenarios that would sicken most other people on seeing it for the first time.

Richard Baron
Posts: 204
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:55 am
Contact:

Re: What causes porn addiction???

Post by Richard Baron » Thu May 21, 2009 4:15 pm

Thank you Morpheus, you note another worthwhile distinction. I was thinking of ethical production, with the focus on the process: no coercion of the actors. Your question about whether there is ethical porn draws attention to the question of content, which is different. But I think that there is a third category, between the two that you mention. I would distinguish:

1. Erotica that leaves something to the imagination
2. Explicit porn (clearly visible genitalia, penetration, ejaculation, etc) which does not portray violence - the sort of thing that is available on youporn
3. The portrayal of sexual violence

(These are only a few points on a continuous scale, of course. A lot of Japanese porn, for example, is close to 2 but with pixellated genitalia.)

As it happens, I would not ban any of these (and correspondingly I think that the UK's "dangerous pictures act" is a shocking violation of liberty, not least because the images in question could easily be faked with no risk to the actors (section 63 of the Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008, available at http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2008/uk ... -pb1-l1g63" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ). But even if we agree on not banning a category, we can still discuss its effects, usefulness, role in a good life, etc.

artisticsolution
Posts: 1938
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:38 am
Contact:

Re: What causes porn addiction???

Post by artisticsolution » Thu May 21, 2009 6:38 pm

Richard Baron wrote:
As it happens, I would not ban any of these (and correspondingly I think that the UK's "dangerous pictures act" is a shocking violation of liberty
Hi Richard and Morpheus,

I agree Richard. Morpheus speaks of desensitization and I am sure this is the case with porn. But I think that desensitization can be hidden in very subtle and clever ways so subtle that before you know it...your a slave to your own laws. Little by little we are becoming desensitized regarding our liberties. The more they are taken away the more we seem to be losing. Most of us don't even see it happening! We just keep screaming for more and more laws to "protect us from ourselves." When does it end? When we all wake up and realize we can't do anything without a safety net from our government? With every new law they strip away part of our ability to experience making our own decisions and learning our own consequences.

I agree that human trafficking must be stopped, because it restricts freedom, it is slavery. But laws prohibiting consensual porn have nothing to do with human trafficking. It's just one more thing to legislate....just one more freedom to lose. We must start using our reason. It is not reasonable to say all porn promotes human trafficking. murder. rape, etc. It doesn't.

RachelAnn
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:32 pm
Location: Troy, NY

Re: What causes porn addiction???

Post by RachelAnn » Thu May 21, 2009 8:04 pm

ArtisticSolution comes over the the Dark Side aka Conservativism...
Little by little we are becoming desensitized regarding our liberties. The more they are taken away the more we seem to be losing. Most of us don't even see it happening! We just keep screaming for more and more laws to "protect us from ourselves." When does it end?
nefarious laughter HAHA HAH! :twisted:
Oh my dear, spoken like a true conservative... Thank you!

artisticsolution
Posts: 1938
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:38 am
Contact:

Re: What causes porn addiction???

Post by artisticsolution » Thu May 21, 2009 8:52 pm

RachelAnn wrote:ArtisticSolution comes over the the Dark Side aka Conservativism...
Little by little we are becoming desensitized regarding our liberties. The more they are taken away the more we seem to be losing. Most of us don't even see it happening! We just keep screaming for more and more laws to "protect us from ourselves." When does it end?
nefarious laughter HAHA HAH! :twisted:
Oh my dear, spoken like a true conservative... Thank you!
LMAO!!! I gotta love ya girl! See, there is not that much difference between people. We all have to keep one another in check so we don't go off the deep end. I agree to freedom in general. I tend to lean toward liberal ideas because they usually gravitate for ALL people's freedoms and not just a few. However, there are some numbnuts on both sides who can't see the forest for the trees ( i.e. liberals who want to do away with the freedom to bear arms...and conservatives who want to make women into slaves/incubators by forcing them to have babies) There has to be a happy medium if we want to be reasonable about our freedom. I have a problem in making laws for the soul purpose of controlling others behavior. Laws should be reserved for the criminal offense that directly harms another persons freedom...i.e. ,murder, slavery, rape, incest, etc.

Freedom has to allow for the most benefit of the entire population of the world or we risk losing everything. So while I believe that people should have the most freedom life can allow, this does not mean that the others should be used as slaves for the soul purpose of a few. It's just like what is happening now in the economy...We have seen what can happened when corporations become bigger than government. America and the world came close to being at their mercy (we might be at their mercy now...but I tend to be optimistic.) Something has to change to make sure corporations do not get too big to fail or( and this is the bigger point to be made) too big so they control the world and become our government. Same with porn, there has to be a happy medium that allows for the most freedom while also making sure that freedom is not abused and used to enslave others.

All people fall for desensitization. Because laws seem rational at the time. The people who see an incident happen...who are outraged...use those emotions to stir up the emotions of others. The laws that restrict our freedom, can prove to be worse than the original wrong that people felt needed to be fixed in the first place! We need to keep our wits about us.

Morpheus
Posts: 106
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:19 pm
Location: UK

Re: What causes porn addiction???

Post by Morpheus » Thu May 21, 2009 9:20 pm

The first thing is that free speech and liberty are fine things. However, we need to take great care to ensure that such rights are not employed as an excuse for all manner of abuses. Abuse comes in many subtle forms. Speaking from the perspective of a therapist, anyone who is emotionally damaged due to a history of sexual abuse is unlikely to be making a healthful decision should they choose to become a porn actor. Therefore, before we can even consider creating an 'ethical' pornography, we need to consider the welfare of everyone involved - from the performers to the viewers. We can't just look at this from the perspective of the 'punter'. As I've said before, most porn performers are expected to take part in high risk acts without the use of a condom, and thus putting their lives at risk. Therefore, I'd regard this as extreme abuse in the guise of 'free speech'.

It's easy to find actors willing to participate in mild erotica, as many mainstream actors already do this. However, porn makers are not interested in a good story line and top rate acting - and neither would they be willing to pay the going rate for such quality. Porn makers want uninhibited exhibitionists. They're not concerned about the emotional wellbeing of participants. It doesn't bother anyone that many performers are unhappy people who indulge in substance abuse in order to perform. So this is yet another health risk, additional to concerns about mental health and STDs.

OK, so how do we begin to find well-balanced exhibitionists? That's the first question. If sexual intercourse is to be part of the performance, then in order to reduce the risk of STDs, we need to recruit real-life, emotionally balanced monogamous couples with a penchant for sex in front of others... :?:

Having found our ideal performers, we have to decide exactly what they are going to perform. Anything goes, eh? Not quite. The sex needs to be non-violent, non-sadistic and mutually enjoyable. The kind of activities we'd find in a sex manual perhaps? Or maybe we could dress it up a bit, call it sacred sex and go the route of the Kama Sutra or The Perfumed Garden :?:

I will get back to this later when I've more time. I also want to look closely at Richard's categories before commenting further.

RachelAnn
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:32 pm
Location: Troy, NY

Re: What causes porn addiction???

Post by RachelAnn » Thu May 21, 2009 9:43 pm

I tend to lean toward liberal ideas because they usually gravitate for ALL people's freedoms and not just a few.
...
I have a problem in making laws for the soul purpose of controlling others behavior. Laws should be reserved for the criminal offense that directly harms another persons freedom...i.e. ,murder, slavery, rape, incest, etc.
Yes, Ma'am, that's conservatism. I am a Burkean conservative, in that I do think a centralized government and laws are necessary to protect liberties - there must be a balance.
I forget that you are in a part of the US where 'conservatism' might include strict gender roles. Northeast "conservatism" veers towards the fiscally conservative (fewer taxes more fairly applied; less restrictions on small businesses); and socially "liberal" (gay marriage allowed without government interference). Example: "Liberals" in the northeast want small mom-&-pop restaurants to list calories and ban trans-fats as well as in the big chains, and to me, that is obscenely Big Daddy. I can see the point in large corporate companies, but even then... intrusive, invasive.
The one area of the bedroom the gov't. might regulate is pornography. For a start, it might generate taxes for municipalities. Do Nevada sex workers pay federal, but not state or municipal, taxes?
1. Erotica that leaves something to the imagination
2. Explicit porn (clearly visible genitalia, penetration, ejaculation, etc) which does not portray violence - the sort of thing that is available on youporn
3. The portrayal of sexual violence
...As it happens, I would not ban any of these...
I agree.
A discussion on pornography and The Good Life seems promising.
Richard, would you please offer your pearls of wisdom?

artisticsolution
Posts: 1938
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:38 am
Contact:

Re: What causes porn addiction???

Post by artisticsolution » Thu May 21, 2009 10:01 pm

Morpheus wrote: The sex needs to be non-violent, non-sadistic and mutually enjoyable. The kind of activities we'd find in a sex manual perhaps? Or maybe we could dress it up a bit, call it sacred sex and go the route of the Kama Sutra or The Perfumed Garden :?:
It seems to me the only way to do this would be to legislate sex. I don't like the idea of being told how to enjoy my sex. I think laws like this would kill our freedom.

Can you imagine for a moment regulating sex? I suppose we could have permits. Each person would have to qualify to make sure they were 'emotionally stable' to engage in sexual acts. They could be licensed...sort of like having a drivers license only different. No...the whole idea of what you are proposing sounds horrifying to me because there would be no way to do it except by making laws. And most laws are designed to make everyone conform. You may think you are thinking about others...but you are not. I am part of the group of people who would rather die than lose any more freedom. Government needs to keep out of the bedroom.

artisticsolution
Posts: 1938
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:38 am
Contact:

Re: What causes porn addiction???

Post by artisticsolution » Thu May 21, 2009 10:17 pm

RachelAnn wrote:
I tend to lean toward liberal ideas because they usually gravitate for ALL people's freedoms and not just a few.
...
I have a problem in making laws for the soul purpose of controlling others behavior. Laws should be reserved for the criminal offense that directly harms another persons freedom...i.e. ,murder, slavery, rape, incest, etc.
Yes, Ma'am, that's conservatism.
No ma'am...that is a far cry away from how conservatives run the country when they are in office. It is a far cry from what you use to espouse when Bush first got into office. The conservative party has now seen the light of their stupidity and most of them have left the radical 'right' in order to move closer to center/liberal side. I just wish they would do it honestly. There is such stigma attached to the word, 'liberal' and while it's true some are a little off...it is not true that it is only the left who are not thinking. I suppose I can't complain...it's better people come around sooner rather than later. It's just that liberals have been saying what I said above the whole time Bush was in office. We had to bare the brunt of being ridiculed when we voiced our opposition toward Bush. Now, that it is proven that Bush was a nut that cause alot of damage, the right does everything to distance themselves! But it was only a year ago that they were singing his praises! Hell, I have even noticed some conservatives all but come out and say Bush was a liberal in disguise!!! In fact...I think they have said it on TV. I hear conservatives say....Bush was the most liberal president we have ever had...Well that is simply not true. Let the actions speak louder than the words. You all can't pick a president and rally behind him while he is making bad judgments and then have everything collapse because of those judgments and then use the defense..."Well...it didn't work because he was REALLY a liberal in disguise." No he wasn't...he was a conservative that liberals were against from day one. Conservatives called him the modern day reagan....they dance in the streets the whole time he was in office...except for that last 2 months the economy collapsed...they were absolutely giddy before that! You can no longer say the party you voted for was conservative...because it wasn't. Clinton was conservative then...if that is your definition of conservative! Bushes laws were conservative. Conservative laws got us into this mess. Liberal laws hopefully will get us out of this mess...because we have no choice. We have a liberal president.

Oh...and if liberal laws get us out of this mess....are you still going to call yourself a conservative? I don't see how you could...a name is a name...actions speak louder than words. Liberal is the new conservative.

Morpheus
Posts: 106
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:19 pm
Location: UK

Re: What causes porn addiction???

Post by Morpheus » Thu May 21, 2009 10:27 pm

AS, again you misread me. I'm not talking about legislation. Richard is proposing an ethical pornography, I'm exploring the possibilities. I'm not proposing censorship either, as this is unlikely to be successful. I'm suggesting that people educate themselves about the humantarian abuses associated with the porn industry - then make make up their own minds. It's essential that we connect emotionally with such abuses, otherwise we will continue to ignore them. Once connected, non-addicted people will choose not to view hardcore pornography, thus the market for such material is reduced. I'm amazed to hear that you'd rather die than be prevented from viewing porn. Surely you are exaggerating :o

P.S. Did a quick Google to discover that there is such a thing as feminist pornography! I will investigate further. Suffice it to say, a different form of pornography already exists without the need for legislation - though I doubt it's as popular as the other kind!

artisticsolution
Posts: 1938
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:38 am
Contact:

Re: What causes porn addiction???

Post by artisticsolution » Thu May 21, 2009 11:00 pm

Morpheus wrote:AS, I'm not talking about legislation. Richard is proposing an ethical pornography, I'm exploring the possibilities. I'm not proposing censorship either, as this is unlikely to be successful. I'm suggesting that people educate themselves about the humantarian abuses associated with the porn industry - then make make up their own minds. It's essential that we connect emotionally with such abuses, otherwise we will continue to ignore them. Once connected, non-addicted people will choose not to view hardcore pornography, thus the market for such material is reduced. I'm amazed to hear that you'd rather die than be prevented from viewing porn. Surely you are exaggerating :o
lol....it's not about porn....it's all about being prevented from doing something. It's all too much...seat belt laws...helmet laws...taxes...smoking laws...laws on who we can love and how...it's everything combined. Little by little laws are killing our spirit. It is suffocating to a creative mind. Being told 'no, No, NO' at every turn. Where is wonderment and spirit allowed to roam freely? NO WHERE. There is no place left to turn on this earth. It used to be one could live in freedom roaming the wilderness. Well there is no more wilderness!!! Everything is regulated! It's like we all live in a cage and everyone here knows that is no exaggeration. And now they want to even intrude inside the bedroom! Telling us how to have sex! I say NO! It's enough already!

Richard Baron
Posts: 204
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:55 am
Contact:

Re: What causes porn addiction???

Post by Richard Baron » Fri May 22, 2009 8:53 am

Morpheus wrote:OK, so how do we begin to find well-balanced exhibitionists?
I'm free.

Seriously, at the risk of setting the discussion off in yet another direction, suppose that we speak to someone who is in the porn business and who says that he or she is happy doing that work, and who says it when not doped up or being watched by a boss, but perhaps has a strange background or way of thinking (something that might lead him or her to volunteer for therapy and happily be taken on by a therapist). The who are we to say that his or her opinion of work in the porn business is not to be taken at face value? That is, how far should we take our standards of "well-balanced" to be the right guide to whether we should accept others' affirmations at face value?

As to the element of violence, some of the most gentle, evidently well-balanced people I have met have been people who were into S&M (not professional porn, amateur Friday night partygoers, and that may make a difference). The surface appearance of a scene may not be a good guide to the psychology. I cannot extrapolate from this to the effect of watching a video of someone else's scene, of course, but I would like to raise a doubt about easy inferences from the content of the video to the mind of the viewer.
RachelAnn wrote:A discussion on pornography and The Good Life seems promising.
Richard, would you please offer your pearls of wisdom?
It can surely be an element in the good life to go to art galleries and admire the beauty on display, or to admire the beauty of nature. Sex can be beautiful too, and not only when it is in satin and soft focus.

RachelAnn
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:32 pm
Location: Troy, NY

Re: What causes porn addiction???

Post by RachelAnn » Fri May 22, 2009 3:00 pm

LIBIDO has a listing of links such as 'sex museums worldwide'.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 21 guests