Any description of a donut hole has to be about the donut.Impenitent wrote:quick, hide the donut holes...
-Imp
But without the hole there is no donut.
Any description of a donut hole has to be about the donut.Impenitent wrote:quick, hide the donut holes...
-Imp
The essay written and deleted are in the same moment IN life. The essay could not have been written if it hadn't already had the potential to exist in the first place. The essay couldn't have been deleted if there wasn't no where for it to go. But the essay hasn't gone anywhere, it's always here now or nowhere.Beauty wrote:Dontaskme, when you say, ''Something'' and ''Nothing'' are the same ONE, do you mean that an essay written and deleted is the same one? It is definitely, but in one scenario it is there and in another it is not there. And here, situation there and situation not there is not the same one - not the same situation.
The discussion is about nonduality which means not two.Beauty wrote:Dontaskme,
You say, The deleted essay hasn't gone anywhere, because there is ONLY here.
I agree as to your point that the here and not here is still within the sphere of the now and here. But still, the point is that for distinguishing between what is here and not here, we consider what is not here as not being present in the now. But yes, in the big picture of things to be, the thing here and not here is all still here as you say because we only have the here with us, so like the essay deleted could only be lost here. But your title of the thread is not saying that, it is saying that, ''Something'' and ''Nothing'' are the same ONE, it is not saying that they are both in the now and here, it is saying that they are both the same situations/outcomes, which they are not, or what is the discussion about?
Things/ideas, concepts, thoughts, are not the same only in the sense of their specific meanings attached. But they're all made from the same one substance and have their being from the one same source. The concept 'meaning' is known instantly as it arises one with the knowing...AS a concurrent phenomena appearing always now. No person or any other living thing or creature knows ...every thing is already the known else it couldn't be.Beauty wrote: I can prove what I say is right because when you say something, according to you that means nothing and vice versa so that is clearly not true, because both nothing and something would lose meaning, but they both stand ABSOLUTE, being opposites, so no confusions can arise in the face of opposites. I don't have an opposite and could be ever changing in this regard or that, so I am not ABSOLUTE, but if I had an exact opposite, I would immediately become ABSOLUTE - absolutely defined. Now, being absolutes - something and nothing are not the same and we know they are opposites. I think I made my point. You could call my reasoning cyclic reasoning, but I have seen that cyclic reasoning in so much as it does not have a valid premise, it still does help explain a point. And because the issue here is to understand the point, then the reasoning is alright to use. You may argue the fact that both something and nothing are with us in the here and now, in the sense of a pen here today gone tomorrow(outdated, out of circulation), but then are dark and light, yes and no, up and down, right and wrong, holy and unholy etc. both not with us in the here and now? They are, and they stand ABSOLUTE, clearly defined and are not the same. Yet, if everything came from nothing and goes back there, then on that premise we can say that something and nothing are the same, but being in the now and here, and while here we only have here, then they both need to be distinguished for the here, otherwise no talk, communication, conversation, discussion, argument, philosophy is possible.
You are what you are doing right NOW. You are Life. This immediate moment is the only place that EXISTS. The past is dead and the future hasn't happened, so in truth the future never comes and the past cannot exist. Life is one unitary continuous flow appearing infinitely for eternity NOW without beginning nor end.Beauty wrote:Dontaskme you say, No person or any other living thing or creature knows ...every thing is already the known else it couldn't be.
So you are saying that all knowledge is already known, right? in the sense that no more is being made, created, synthesized, but is already there existent in some mega database, let's say of nature. But as life progresses, synthesis, analysis and so forth will always be there, and there is virtually no way that the way I synthesize and analyze and what I synthesize and analyze could already be there, it is only logical to believe so. I also wanted to say that it seems that nature's database is ever non-exhaustive, which is why life is always progressing or how could it? Also, nature's database of information is in such a way as to be infinite I believe. So if that is not true then what in Heaven's name does infinity mean to you? I believe that nature's database if ever non-exhaustive because it is infinite, and so everything is not already known, but we make knowledge as we go.
Well it kinda works both ways like a two way mirror. Since they are the same One.Beauty wrote:Dontaskme you say, Nothing or Emptiness is the first place holder of Everything. The deleted essay hasn't gone anywhere, because there is ONLY here.
You have a very solid point mind you but you forget ''Something'' and ''Nothing'' are the same ONE, so nothing or emptiness is not the first place holder of everything, something or fullness is the first place holder of everything!
The deleted essay has only gone somewhere in the knowledge there is somewhere for it to go. And since knowledge is a fiction the essay has in fact gone nowhere and it's existence was a mere appearance of that nowhere.Beauty wrote:And the deleted essay has gone somewhere, because there is also there.
Yes of course, the illusion is simply kept alive as one illusion is continually replaced by another, so the apparent continuity of the illusion can appear never ending.Beauty wrote:And so my point is that even though everything might have arised from nothing, but for the sake of understanding we must keep absolute/opposite definitions as such.
I'm saying the ABSOLUTE can never be known because we are the absolute right here now. Anything known is purely relative .. ANY THING known is a fiction. We can never know the ABSOLUTE because we ARE the ABSOLUTE ...it is known absolutely that we exist...but that's all that's known, it's not known who or what is existing or why...if a who or what or why is known then that kind of knowing is a fiction.Beauty wrote:Dontaskme you say, ...it's all the same ONENESS., and then you also say, The Absolute can never be known.
How? Is that Oneness not absolute, if not, then what else is there? Because it would be standing absolute.
I just want to come back to this point you've made above.Beauty wrote: I believe that nature's database is ever non-exhaustive because it is infinite, and so everything is not already known, but we make knowledge as we go.
I hear what you are saying, but Nonduality is something that goes beyond all of these mind-made opposites. There are no opposites in reality. Nonduality is pointing to life as it is right now, before the appearance of opposites, ie: concepts and labels of past and future, right and wrong etc... What is life before thought? Is it possible to capture Nonduality into words without simultaneously creating the opposite?Beauty wrote:Dontaskme you say, Nonduality does not mean the absence of duality ..it simply gives meaning to duality.
Duality is both non &duality at the same time. Duality is all there IS...simply because duality cannot not exist.
You also say, The discussion is about nonduality which means not two.
What I am saying is this - duality cannot be both non-duality and duality at the same time, for by definition we are calling it just duality. So duality is only duality at a point in time.
I think we agree on that.Beauty wrote:Now this duality is not here, for you say that the discussion is about non-duality which means not two but ONE. From nothing is something and back to nothing, so at a point in time we have only one, nothing or something. But, in so much as we are contained in nothing and nothing contained in us (I already proved so earlier based on the premise that existence is from nothing into being something and back to nothing), so the existing non-duality is duality simultaneously, which is why here today, gone tomorrow is there but not at the same point in time, existence, non-existence is there but not at the same point in time. That is all.