How did spirituality, belief in God and the continuing search for God change you?

Is there a God? If so, what is She like?

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sthitapragya
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How did spirituality, belief in God and the continuing search for God change you?

Post by sthitapragya » Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:53 am

Did it make you a better person? Calmer? More at peace? Did it give you the ability to love all mankind? Did it make you healthier? Did it make you richer? Did it improve your relationships with people? Did it take away your anger? Did it take away your anxieties? Did you develop skills? Did it make you more focused? Did it give you extra strength? More tenacity? Did it take away your frustrations? Do people respond better to you now? Did it make you more attractive to people? Did you get promotions you did not expect? Did it make you more successful? Does food taste better now? Does music mean more to you now? Do you appreciate your fellow men and women more now? Do you think of all men as being equal now?

What changed?

thedoc
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Re: How did spirituality, belief in God and the continuing search for God change you?

Post by thedoc » Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:55 am

sthitapragya wrote:Did it make you a better person? Calmer? More at peace? Did it give you the ability to love all mankind? Did it make you healthier? Did it make you richer? Did it improve your relationships with people? Did it take away your anger? Did it take away your anxieties? Did you develop skills? Did it make you more focused? Did it give you extra strength? More tenacity? Did it take away your frustrations? Do people respond better to you now? Did it make you more attractive to people? Did you get promotions you did not expect? Did it make you more successful? Does food taste better now? Does music mean more to you now? Do you appreciate your fellow men and women more now? Do you think of all men as being equal now?

What changed?
Christianity teaches that you should do all those things, it doesn't teach that you have to do them to be accepted, but it does teach that you are forgiven if you don't. There is a misconception that Christians are perfect people, and non-Christians often use this to criticize Christianity, but Christians are those who know what God is asking, and know that they will be forgiven if they fall short. This is what changes, first the belief that God exists, and then the knowledge of what is expected and the knowledge that we are still forgiven if we can't live up to those expectations.

Nick_A
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Re: How did spirituality, belief in God and the continuing search for God change you?

Post by Nick_A » Mon Jun 20, 2016 4:55 am

I have always had an interest in meaning. Of course it got me in trouble in contemporary education and Sunday school. Naturally I was not loved in these institutions. However I had certain advantages one of which is my talented ancestor whose paintings are spiritually inspiring and have even sold in the famous Sotheby’s auction house in London. If there was sense to the universe and human existence I didn’t understand it. Then later on I became aware of esoteric ideas which showed me why everything is as it is and makes perfect sense. Here I was always under the impression that the universe didn’t make sense and now I find that life on earth makes perfect sense and is proceeding in the only way it can. Talk about a life changer.

The relationship between the Source and Man became clear. The greatest benefit for me from the essence of religion is the awareness of objective human meaning and purpose a human being can awaken to. Plato said that man is a beast in search of meaning. When a person experiences it, the benefits are not restricted to earthly concerns but are appreciated in the depths of ones being.

sthitapragya
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Re: How did spirituality, belief in God and the continuing search for God change you?

Post by sthitapragya » Mon Jun 20, 2016 6:18 am

Nick_A wrote:I have always had an interest in meaning. Of course it got me in trouble in contemporary education and Sunday school. Naturally I was not loved in these institutions. However I had certain advantages one of which is my talented ancestor whose paintings are spiritually inspiring and have even sold in the famous Sotheby’s auction house in London. If there was sense to the universe and human existence I didn’t understand it. Then later on I became aware of esoteric ideas which showed me why everything is as it is and makes perfect sense. Here I was always under the impression that the universe didn’t make sense and now I find that life on earth makes perfect sense and is proceeding in the only way it can. Talk about a life changer.

The relationship between the Source and Man became clear. The greatest benefit for me from the essence of religion is the awareness of objective human meaning and purpose a human being can awaken to. Plato said that man is a beast in search of meaning. When a person experiences it, the benefits are not restricted to earthly concerns but are appreciated in the depths of ones being.
I was asking more about real difference in life. Psychologically you feel less confused. That is okay. But materially, what changed?

sthitapragya
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Re: How did spirituality, belief in God and the continuing search for God change you?

Post by sthitapragya » Mon Jun 20, 2016 6:21 am

thedoc wrote:
sthitapragya wrote:Did it make you a better person? Calmer? More at peace? Did it give you the ability to love all mankind? Did it make you healthier? Did it make you richer? Did it improve your relationships with people? Did it take away your anger? Did it take away your anxieties? Did you develop skills? Did it make you more focused? Did it give you extra strength? More tenacity? Did it take away your frustrations? Do people respond better to you now? Did it make you more attractive to people? Did you get promotions you did not expect? Did it make you more successful? Does food taste better now? Does music mean more to you now? Do you appreciate your fellow men and women more now? Do you think of all men as being equal now?

What changed?
Christianity teaches that you should do all those things, it doesn't teach that you have to do them to be accepted, but it does teach that you are forgiven if you don't. There is a misconception that Christians are perfect people, and non-Christians often use this to criticize Christianity, but Christians are those who know what God is asking, and know that they will be forgiven if they fall short. This is what changes, first the belief that God exists, and then the knowledge of what is expected and the knowledge that we are still forgiven if we can't live up to those expectations.
Then what is the difference between you and me? I don't believe in God. I don't believe in an afterlife. So I don't need to be forgiven and it does not matter if I live up to expectations of others. So from that perspective, we are both in the same place having taken opposite roads.

thedoc
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Re: How did spirituality, belief in God and the continuing search for God change you?

Post by thedoc » Mon Jun 20, 2016 1:56 pm

sthitapragya wrote:
thedoc wrote:
sthitapragya wrote:Did it make you a better person? Calmer? More at peace? Did it give you the ability to love all mankind? Did it make you healthier? Did it make you richer? Did it improve your relationships with people? Did it take away your anger? Did it take away your anxieties? Did you develop skills? Did it make you more focused? Did it give you extra strength? More tenacity? Did it take away your frustrations? Do people respond better to you now? Did it make you more attractive to people? Did you get promotions you did not expect? Did it make you more successful? Does food taste better now? Does music mean more to you now? Do you appreciate your fellow men and women more now? Do you think of all men as being equal now?

What changed?
Christianity teaches that you should do all those things, it doesn't teach that you have to do them to be accepted, but it does teach that you are forgiven if you don't. There is a misconception that Christians are perfect people, and non-Christians often use this to criticize Christianity, but Christians are those who know what God is asking, and know that they will be forgiven if they fall short. This is what changes, first the belief that God exists, and then the knowledge of what is expected and the knowledge that we are still forgiven if we can't live up to those expectations.
Then what is the difference between you and me? I don't believe in God. I don't believe in an afterlife. So I don't need to be forgiven and it does not matter if I live up to expectations of others. So from that perspective, we are both in the same place having taken opposite roads.
There are some Christians who are Universalists, and they believe that everyone goes to Heaven. I would assume that they believe that people will have their nature corrected where needed. For myself I have stopped trying to define exactly what Heaven is, since I haven't been there yet. I like to think that God knows what each of us wants and will provide that after death, so for some it will be oblivion.

I have heard some criticize the concept of Heaven by confusing the concept of "forever" and "eternity", they are not the same. Forever is a very long, endless, time. Eternity is existence without the passage of time, every time is now and everything happens now. Since this is outside of human experience it is difficult to describe and understand.

Nick_A
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Re: How did spirituality, belief in God and the continuing search for God change you?

Post by Nick_A » Mon Jun 20, 2016 2:37 pm

sthit asked me:
I was asking more about real difference in life. Psychologically you feel less confused. That is okay. But materially, what changed?
Nothing really. My attitude towards life became better but that's about it. The purpose of the god question for me concerns meaning, not materiality. A person concerned with material goods is better off praying to Satan since materiality is his specialty. Don't chase virgins around when you're looking for a hooker.

sthitapragya
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Re: How did spirituality, belief in God and the continuing search for God change you?

Post by sthitapragya » Mon Jun 20, 2016 7:15 pm

Nick_A wrote:sthit asked me:
I was asking more about real difference in life. Psychologically you feel less confused. That is okay. But materially, what changed?
Nothing really. My attitude towards life became better but that's about it. The purpose of the god question for me concerns meaning, not materiality. A person concerned with material goods is better off praying to Satan since materiality is his specialty. Don't chase virgins around when you're looking for a hooker.
But you still have judgement issues though. Matthew 7:1-5 doesn't appeal to you?

Nick_A
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Re: How did spirituality, belief in God and the continuing search for God change you?

Post by Nick_A » Mon Jun 20, 2016 9:23 pm

sthit wrote:
But you still have judgement issues though. Matthew 7:1-5 doesn't appeal to you?

I am not emotionally judging anyone. Jesus is referring to emotional judgement or blind belief. If I'm playing chess and my opponent announces a mate in three I will intellectually judge the position to verify it. There is no sense in emotionally cursing out my opponent. I'll leave that to the blind deniers.

Matthew 7:1-5King James Version (KJV)

7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

sthitapragya
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Re: How did spirituality, belief in God and the continuing search for God change you?

Post by sthitapragya » Tue Jun 21, 2016 4:16 am

Nick_A wrote: I am not emotionally judging anyone. Jesus is referring to emotional judgement or blind belief. If I'm playing chess and my opponent announces a mate in three I will intellectually judge the position to verify it. There is no sense in emotionally cursing out my opponent. I'll leave that to the blind deniers.
And making up your own classifications of people like blind deniers is not emotionally judging people?

Nick_A
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Re: How did spirituality, belief in God and the continuing search for God change you?

Post by Nick_A » Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:29 am

Sthit wrote:
And making up your own classifications of people like blind deniers is not emotionally judging people?
Blind faith is a common term. Why not blind denial? They both mean emotional rather than intellectual judgments.

Blind denial of God is based on grouping all conceptions of God into one. The transcendent God and the personal God are seen as one and emotionally denied as such. There is no intellectual basis for denying the transcendent God. A reasonable hypothesis can be made for its necessity. Denial can only take place emotionally so it is as blind as blind belief. This is an intellectual conclusion and not an emotional one.

sthitapragya
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Re: How did spirituality, belief in God and the continuing search for God change you?

Post by sthitapragya » Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:46 am

Nick_A wrote: Blind faith is a common term. Why not blind denial? They both mean emotional rather than intellectual judgments.

Blind denial of God is based on grouping all conceptions of God into one. The transcendent God and the personal God are seen as one and emotionally denied as such. There is no intellectual basis for denying the transcendent God. A reasonable hypothesis can be made for its necessity. Denial can only take place emotionally so it is as blind as blind belief. This is an intellectual conclusion and not an emotional one.
Oh come on, man. Even you cannot be that much in denial. Look it up. Google it. Ask a priest. Has anyone heard of the term? You invented it (or Simone Weil did and since no one read Simone Weil, Google doe not know about it) and you gave it your own meaning which might be an achievement of some sort, but it does not mean you have to force it down our throats.

See what you write. You yourself have written, "A reasonable hypothesis can be made for its ( transcendent God's) necessity. I AGREE. A HYPOTHESIS can be made for his NECESSITY. But AN EMPHATIC CONCLUSION FOR HIS EXISTENCE CANNOT BE MADE. Therefore, while it remains a hypothesis, like many other hypotheses, it can also be assumed to be not true without validating conclusive evidence to back up the hypotheis.

You yourself call it a hypothesis and yet you insist that it be deemed to be a conclusion. I disagree. What is unreasonable about my disagreement, seeing that it is not a conclusion?

Also, somehow, what you yourself claim to be a hypothesis has by the end of your reply turned into a conclusion. How is that reasonable to you? How is that not blind belief? You just went and turned a hypothesis into a conclusion without providing any supporting conclusive evidence. And you think it is perfectly fine to do it.

I am willing to accept a hypothesis of God's necessity but unwilling to accept it as a conclusion for his existence without supporting evidence. How is that blind denial?

Nick_A
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Re: How did spirituality, belief in God and the continuing search for God change you?

Post by Nick_A » Tue Jun 21, 2016 6:08 am

Sthit, I did invent the term blind denial. I have no idea why it hasn’t been used before. It seems obvious enough

I didn’t ask you to believe in a transcendent God. I suggested it as a reasonable hypothesis that only can be denied emotionally. That is my intellectual conclusion. If you disagree, tell me on what basis the transcendent god can be denied.

Again, I’m not asking you to accept the hypothesis. I’m only asserting that denying the transcendent God can only take place emotionally. There is no basis for intellectually denying it since a reasonable hypothesis can be stated for its presence. The hypothesis is not a conclusion.

sthitapragya
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Re: How did spirituality, belief in God and the continuing search for God change you?

Post by sthitapragya » Tue Jun 21, 2016 6:23 am

Nick_A wrote:Sthit, I did invent the term blind denial. I have no idea why it hasn’t been used before. It seems obvious enough

I didn’t ask you to believe in a transcendent God. I suggested it as a reasonable hypothesis that only can be denied emotionally. That is my intellectual conclusion. If you disagree, tell me on what basis the transcendent god can be denied.

Again, I’m not asking you to accept the hypothesis. I’m only asserting that denying the transcendent God can only take place emotionally. There is no basis for intellectually denying it since a reasonable hypothesis can be stated for its presence. The hypothesis is not a conclusion.
See now that is your second problem You came up with the hypothesis. YOU have to provide supporting evidence that proves it is conclusive. Till then I have no need to accept it since I see a lot of loopholes in your hypothesis.

What you claim to be an intellectual conclusion is not one. You just converted a hypothesis into a conclusion without evidence. How is that intelligent in any way?

How can a hypothesis be denied emotionally? You might have an emotional need to believe in your hypothesis because you are attached to it. I am not. I have nothing to do with your hypothesis. I have no emotional attachment to it. I can simply deny it without any emotion.

Of course a hypothesis can be stated. That is what it is for. But if the hypothesis is not a conclusion, why would you expect me to accept as one? I accept it as a hypothesis. I agree that god is necessary. A lot of people are psychologically dependent on him and taking away that from them could be emotionally devastating to the believers. But that is not conclusive evidence of his existence.

You claim to have a hypothesis for God's necessity and want people to accept it as a conclusion. How does that even make sense to you?

I have a hypothesis for the necessity of Santa as a lot of children around the world believe in him and if they were told that Santa did not exist, they would be emotionally devastated. I therefore now conclude that your denial of Santa's existence can only be done emotionally and therefore it is blind denial. Would you agree with my assessment?

And the term blind denial has not been used before because it is asinine to apply it to rejection of hypotheses. Even my daughters found it ridiculous.

And this is tiring. You really need to understand the difference between a hypothesis and a conclusion. Seriously. That my friend, is blind denial when you refuse to see that they are two different things. And till you accept that, we will keep banging our heads against the wall.

Dontaskme
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Re: How did spirituality, belief in God and the continuing search for God change you?

Post by Dontaskme » Tue Jun 21, 2016 10:35 am

Nothing changed.

For my love there is no charge.

There is no change for what is free.

To deny God is to deny you.

Without you there is no God. God is you, and you are God.

That which appears to change is only possible within that which does not change, for how else would you know change without never changing.

When you meet God for the very first time it will literally hit you like a million volt lightening bolt, in that same instant you will vanish into the pure ocean of oneness which is blinding clarity.

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