The Most Despotic Taxes Known to Mankind

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bobevenson
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The Most Despotic Taxes Known to Mankind

Post by bobevenson » Sat Apr 09, 2016 2:32 pm

No. 1: INCOME TAX
No. 2: SALES TAX

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Re: The Most Despotic Taxes Known to Mankind

Post by bobevenson » Sat Apr 09, 2016 9:26 pm

What are the least despotic taxes known to mankind? There's only one, a single tax on property, property being defined as anything with intrinsic market value.

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Re: The Most Despotic Taxes Known to Mankind

Post by Walker » Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:36 pm

Sales tax, most or least?

With a sales tax only you pay to buy.

Pay to play in duality.

No buyee no payee tax.

Nice setup for the frugal.

The frugal in Hedon can then enjoy the simple non-taxed pleasures of humanness, and enjoy the domestic infrastructure provided by the consumers who pay the sales tax.

Sales tax wouldn’t work in despotic China where they make more than they buy. I think I read in the mail or somewhere that in China they’re scrapping the big public Christian crosses. There were pictures but they were being careful in the pictures, using a crane not sledge-hammers, so maybe those are pictures of installations and the rest is hooey.

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Re: The Most Despotic Taxes Known to Mankind

Post by FlashDangerpants » Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:51 pm

bobevenson wrote: What are the least despotic taxes known to mankind? There's only one, a single tax on property, property being defined as anything with intrinsic market value.
So this assets tax... would be collected once per year on the same day for everybody?
And levied against the current market rate of everything they own, not just something straightforward like land?
Including things that aren't commonly sold, and which nobody can say exactly how much they would fetch at market?
Do companies pay this tax on the factories they own, or do their shareholders pay it because they own the entity that owns the factory?

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Re: The Most Despotic Taxes Known to Mankind

Post by Obvious Leo » Sun Apr 10, 2016 1:12 pm

FlashDangerpants wrote:
bobevenson wrote: What are the least despotic taxes known to mankind? There's only one, a single tax on property, property being defined as anything with intrinsic market value.
So this assets tax... would be collected once per year on the same day for everybody?
And levied against the current market rate of everything they own, not just something straightforward like land?
Including things that aren't commonly sold, and which nobody can say exactly how much they would fetch at market?
Do companies pay this tax on the factories they own, or do their shareholders pay it because they own the entity that owns the factory?
Bob doesn't so questions, Flash. He just does brainless pronouncements because he doesn't know his arse from his elbow.

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Re: The Most Despotic Taxes Known to Mankind

Post by bobevenson » Mon Apr 11, 2016 2:12 pm

FlashDangerpants wrote:
bobevenson wrote: What are the least despotic taxes known to mankind? There's only one, a single tax on property, property being defined as anything with intrinsic market value.
So this assets tax... would be collected once per year on the same day for everybody?
And levied against the current market rate of everything they own, not just something straightforward like land?
Including things that aren't commonly sold, and which nobody can say exactly how much they would fetch at market?
Do companies pay this tax on the factories they own, or do their shareholders pay it because they own the entity that owns the factory?
FlashDangerpants wrote:
bobevenson wrote: What are the least despotic taxes known to mankind? There's only one, a single tax on property, property being defined as anything with intrinsic market value.
So this assets tax... would be collected once per year on the same day for everybody? No, assets include money, which is not taxed. Only property is taxed, and it is paid monthly like a utility bill.And levied against the current market rate of everything they own, not just something straightforward like land? Including things that aren't commonly sold, and which nobody can say exactly how much they would fetch at market? It's based on an estimated inventory of property and value thereof as audited by an outside agency and subject to change over time. Do companies pay this tax on the factories they own, or do their shareholders pay it because they own the entity that owns the factory? Companies pay the tax, and that incudes the property value of nonprofit organizations.

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henry quirk
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Post by henry quirk » Mon Apr 11, 2016 3:17 pm

If all property is taxed, and there are no loopholes, no exemptions, and the tax is based on true market values, then Bob's idea is a good one.

Will never happen, though...no way such a scheme will bring in the revenue needed to fund all the absurdities currently in place. Also: no way in hell the elected would give up the power of the IRS.

All the domesticated folk would have to go feral before Bob's idea would get installed and they ain't goin' 'wild' any time soon.

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Re: The Most Despotic Taxes Known to Mankind

Post by bobevenson » Mon Apr 11, 2016 4:22 pm

The AEP tax system would bring in the same amount of tax revenue as any other system, and be operated by the IRS. All other taxes or sources of government income would be totally eliminated.

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Re: The Most Despotic Taxes Known to Mankind

Post by FlashDangerpants » Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:25 pm

bobevenson wrote:No, assets include money, which is not taxed. Only property is taxed, and it is paid monthly like a utility bill.
So do you mean fixed assets, like land and houses?
Or you mean all property - including not just that, but cars and TVs, phones, laptops, pictures, furniture and tools, baseball cards and every other piece of the inventories of our lives?
What about shares you own and other investments that aren't cash, but aren't actually things?

Are businesses to be taxed on inventory, or just on fixed assets, or both plus investments?

If somebody disagrees with you about the net present value of their property, do you go to court to settle it, or does the IRS seize and sell their stuff, and then give them back a percentage of the take?

If you are charging people monthly for all the shit they own, and then taking in the same amount of revenue as before, somebody is going to get hosed while other people make out like bandits. The rich spend less of their money and save more, they also buy stuff in foreign countries that you can't tax. So when the rich - especially the richest of the rich - send their money abroad to buy foreign assets - doesn't that mean the poor will get hosed? Is that a problem or is it just the price of fairness?

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Re: The Most Despotic Taxes Known to Mankind

Post by Obvious Leo » Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:33 pm

FlashDangerpants wrote:
bobevenson wrote:No, assets include money, which is not taxed. Only property is taxed, and it is paid monthly like a utility bill.
So do you mean fixed assets, like land and houses?
Or you mean all property - including not just that, but cars and TVs, phones, laptops, pictures, furniture and tools, baseball cards and every other piece of the inventories of our lives?
What about shares you own and other investments that aren't cash, but aren't actually things?

Are businesses to be taxed on inventory, or just on fixed assets, or both plus investments?

If somebody disagrees with you about the net present value of their property, do you go to court to settle it, or does the IRS seize and sell their stuff, and then give them back a percentage of the take?

If you are charging people monthly for all the shit they own, and then taking in the same amount of revenue as before, somebody is going to get hosed while other people make out like bandits. The rich spend less of their money and save more, they also buy stuff in foreign countries that you can't tax. So when the rich - especially the richest of the rich - send their money abroad to buy foreign assets - doesn't that mean the poor will get hosed? Is that a problem or is it just the price of fairness?
Don't confuse him with logic, Flash. He has no talent for it and is liable to react erratically.

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Re: The Most Despotic Taxes Known to Mankind

Post by FlashDangerpants » Mon Apr 11, 2016 9:51 pm

Let's let him say what his plan is. At the moment he is pretty close to the ideas of a French not-quite-marxist called Piketty. So it's fun that he's bringing Henry for the ride.

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Re: The Most Despotic Taxes Known to Mankind

Post by Obvious Leo » Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:25 pm

I somehow don't really think Bob and Piketty are on the same page, although now that you point it out there is indeed a superficial neo-Marxist congruence.

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Re: The Most Despotic Taxes Known to Mankind

Post by bobevenson » Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:28 pm

Again, although all property is taxed at an estimated mid-point range of wholesale value, household goods would be taxed at a low nominal value. Factories, equipment, inventories, land, buildings, yachts, trains, planes and things like that would be the major sources of taxation, and valuation could be appealed. Obviously, the companies given authority for making such valuations would be held accountable for their performance. Money, stocks, bonds and other financial instruments don't have intrinsic market value beyond paper and ink, and are therefore not taxable. And please, don't insult me by associating me with Piketty, that French redistributor of wealth. He would do better trying to figure out why the average Frenchman spends most of his time avoiding productive work.
Last edited by bobevenson on Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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henry quirk
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Post by henry quirk » Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:38 pm

Don't know that Bob's idea is marxist, but if so: even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Anyway: while I like Bob's idea, I prefer the user fee notion I hinted at in another thread.

Got no time to reproduce it here (or spell check anything...working right now and headin' home shortly).

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Re: The Most Despotic Taxes Known to Mankind

Post by FlashDangerpants » Mon Apr 11, 2016 10:47 pm

So a telemarketing firm which has assets amounting to desks, phones and chairs in a cheap office but makes high returns against equity would pay very little tax.

But a struggling automotive parts firm that has expensive machinery, thousands of employees and a hefty factory plus a large inventory of speicalist steels and ceramics and so on would pay a huge amount - and go bust?

What about a software firm whose major asset is an algorithm (Google's PageRank for instance)?

And what about a company that owns a hugely valuable trademark (Apple, Coca Cola), but manufactures all their stuff abroad (outside your tax jurisdiction) and only really has people and intellectual property in your country?

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