Does existence exist?

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raw_thought
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Does existence exist?

Post by raw_thought » Fri Jun 05, 2015 12:47 am

Does existence exist?
http://edwardfeser.blogspot.com/2014/01 ... exist.html
Does existence exist? Seems tautological to me! However, isn’t that what “instantiate” implies? X exists if it is instantiated.* X exists if it exists!
http://philosophy.lander.edu/intro/arti ... ence-a.pdf Since existence isn’t a predicate (property) it cannot be described (defined) For example, lets use "X' as an undefined term. Is it meaningful to say , " This rock is an example of "X"."?
Therefore it is gibberish to ask why there is something rather than nothing!
Comments?
* and isn't "instantiation" treating existence as a property?

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HexHammer
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Re: Does existence exist?

Post by HexHammer » Fri Jun 05, 2015 1:31 am

What an utterly retarded topic, go jump from a bridge, least then you do something useful by ridding the world of stupidity like you!

raw_thought
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Re: Does existence exist?

Post by raw_thought » Fri Jun 05, 2015 1:42 am

Please go away troll. Since you have no idea what Kant is talking about why do you post at a philosophy site. Oh yeah, to call people poopy heads.
You NEVER post anything but childish name calling and that is why you get no respect here.
I hear there is a Brittany Spears site. You belong there , not here.

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Re: Does existence exist?

Post by Ginkgo » Fri Jun 05, 2015 1:55 am

raw_thought wrote: Therefore it is gibberish to ask why there is something rather than nothing!
Comments?
* and isn't "instantiation" treating existence as a property?
Do you mean the idea that redness can only exist if it is a property of objects?

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Re: Does existence exist?

Post by raw_thought » Fri Jun 05, 2015 5:55 pm

Hexhammer,
You remind me of a student from 3 years ago that responded to a question with a fart. No one laughed. He immediately knew that elementary school humor does not work in college. I do not expect even that level of comprehension from you.

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Re: Does existence exist?

Post by raw_thought » Fri Jun 05, 2015 5:56 pm

Anyway, let’s forget hexhammer’s silliness and proceed.
My OP makes two points.
1. Instantiation does not get rid of the problem of existence (what is existence).
2. Because existence (the property * of existing) is not a predicate, it cannot be described.
3. Because existence cannot be described (defined) it cannot be compared to a describable property. Therefore, there can be no answer to the question, “why is there something that exists, rather than nothing.”
Let’s analyze point 1. Defining what makes a property instantiated is the same as defining what makes us know that a property exists in the real world.
Let’s analyze point 2. Subjects without predicates ( if such a thing is possible) can never be detected. If something lacks all predicates ( red, green, mass, etc) there is nothing to describe.
Let’s analyze point 3. Since there is no way to describe existence it must be undefined. To see if something that is undefined corresponds to anything is impossible. Therefore, it is impossible to know what makes a thing exist.

* Actually existence is not even a property!
PS; Regardless of hexhammer’s belief that trying to understand what existence ( what does it mean to exist) means is ignorant, I as well as the entire philosophical community disagree. The problem of existence is fundamental and still very mysterious!
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/existence/

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Re: Does existence exist?

Post by raw_thought » Fri Jun 05, 2015 5:57 pm

Ginko,
I wrote the post just above on a word document before reading your question. I hope it answers your question.

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attofishpi
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Re: Does existence exist?

Post by attofishpi » Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:25 am

raw_thought wrote:1. Instantiation does not get rid of the problem of existence (what is existence).
2. Because existence (the property * of existing) is not a predicate, it cannot be described.
3. Because existence cannot be described (defined) it cannot be compared to a describable property. Therefore, there can be no answer to the question, “why is there something that exists, rather than nothing.”
Let’s analyze point 1. Defining what makes a property instantiated is the same as defining what makes us know that a property exists in the real world.
Let’s analyze point 2. Subjects without predicates ( if such a thing is possible) can never be detected. If something lacks all predicates ( red, green, mass, etc) there is nothing to describe.
Let’s analyze point 3. Since there is no way to describe existence it must be undefined. To see if something that is undefined corresponds to anything is impossible. Therefore, it is impossible to know what makes a thing exist.
Existence is simply the ability to comprehend something. Ergo, you did, as i did.

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Re: Does existence exist?

Post by raw_thought » Wed Jun 10, 2015 5:22 pm


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hammock
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Re: Does existence exist?

Post by hammock » Wed Jun 10, 2015 6:38 pm

raw_thought wrote:. . . Therefore it is gibberish to ask why there is something rather than nothing!
Our concept of existence is logically prior to our concept of causality. Demonstrated by asking: "What caused the capacity to exist (or what brought about things which in turn validated such a capacity)? Such a cause would already be an instance of existing.

If "nothing" has potency or causal powers for yielding "something", then it is a misleading label which already indicates an instance of something. If it simply precedes "something" in order without being a provenance for "something", then it means there is nothing that actually precedes something. Just as we shouldn't mistakenly reify "nobody is there" as referring to a strange, blank type of person being there.
raw_thought wrote:Does existence exist? Seems tautological to me!
Existence as used in "Existence exists" can be construed as having a different, secondary meaning attached to it than "the fact or state having being". Where it's instead a synonym for universe: Everything that exists anywhere. Thus "existence exists" could express the trivial information or insignificant analysis that "the universe exists."

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Re: Does existence exist?

Post by raw_thought » Wed Jun 10, 2015 6:41 pm

I am saying that if one cannot define "X" ( in this case existence) one cannot know that an object has the property X. Therefore, one cannot explain how it acquired that property.
Last edited by raw_thought on Wed Jun 10, 2015 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Does existence exist?

Post by raw_thought » Wed Jun 10, 2015 6:42 pm

I am asking if "existence' is something real, that can be defined.
Existence is not a synonym for universe. Similarly, "red" is not a synonym for a red ball.

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hammock
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Re: Does existence exist?

Post by hammock » Wed Jun 10, 2015 7:22 pm

raw_thought wrote:I am saying that if one cannot define "X" ( in this case existence) one cannot know that an object has the property X. Therefore, one cannot explain how it acquired that property.
For there to even be an object to refer to validates it existing in some manner. To assert that "_X_ needs to be defined" is pointless if whatever the word "defining" represents lacks existence and utility; lacks effect upon at least human thought processes. To exist is to have potency. Sherlock Holmes is at least real as a described character in literature, as information or a meme or something that influences people to make plays, movies, illustrations, etc about him.

If the concept existence lacked further detail or internal structure to analyze, it would be because it is the most fundamental one (which should be expected of the latter). However, again, the "power to" is either necessarily indigenous to it or just another way of saying "This exists... it has the power to...."

The great god Mambidongu doesn't really exist as a divine being in the 49th heaven of R'tyllin, but Mambidongu has just acquired a slim type of being as an empty shell of an idea waiting to be filled, expressed by words right now, that have effect upon other Anglophone humans by virtue of their reading this sentence.

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hammock
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Re: Does existence exist?

Post by hammock » Wed Jun 10, 2015 7:29 pm

raw_thought wrote:I am asking if "existence' is something real, that can be defined. Existence is not a synonym for universe. Similarly, "red" is not a synonym for a red ball.
Variations along the line of "Everything that exists anywhere" is one of the plural meanings of existence it has in some dictionaries, lexicons, glossaries, etc. Until that possibility had been excluded by the OP, which has been done now, it was a route of making "Existence exists" meaningful, albeit utterly trivial.

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Re: Does existence exist?

Post by raw_thought » Sat Jun 13, 2015 9:21 pm

"just another way of saying "This exists."
Hammock
Existence is just another way to say, " this exists' OK, but that is hardly a definition of what existence is. It is like saying to have the property of jusdnikeo is to have the property of jusdnikeo.*
* In other words an undefined term.

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