What is wise?

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Blaggard
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Re: What is wise?

Post by Blaggard » Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:41 pm

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
Blaggard wrote:How do you know any of the above? It's just your opinion, whilst there may be no free will, there even might be existence for all anyone knows, how can you define existence by assertion of fact a priori? Or anything at all because you just say so?

You might agree existence exists but such a tautology is meaningless when it comes to either truth or reality as we may or more likely may not know it. So what does truth denote truth?
What? Free will doesn't exist, and that's a fact. Existence does exist, it's a fact, not my opinion. And opinion would be, like, saying "life is good."
Prove anything you say. Talk is cheap prove you exist and then prove free will does not. I don't care if either is true or not. It's just a point of order.

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GreatandWiseTrixie
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Re: What is wise?

Post by GreatandWiseTrixie » Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:47 pm

Blaggard wrote:
GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
Blaggard wrote:How do you know any of the above? It's just your opinion, whilst there may be no free will, there even might be existence for all anyone knows, how can you define existence by assertion of fact a priori? Or anything at all because you just say so?

You might agree existence exists but such a tautology is meaningless when it comes to either truth or reality as we may or more likely may not know it. So what does truth denote truth?
What? Free will doesn't exist, and that's a fact. Existence does exist, it's a fact, not my opinion. And opinion would be, like, saying "life is good."
Prove anything you say. Talk is cheap prove you exist and then prove free will does not. I don't care if either is true or not. It's just a point of order.
I never said anything about my own existence. I exist, and if you do in fact exist, you exist too. You should care about the truth, in my opinion, to increase your efficiency and power. Though many believe it decreases their power, so they spread delusion everywhere to hide themselves, their fans, and their loved ones, from the truth. "Blissful ignorance", as they say.

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Arising_uk
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Re: What is wise?

Post by Arising_uk » Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:54 pm

Blaggard wrote:...
You might agree existence exists but such a tautology is meaningless when it comes to either truth or reality as we may or more likely may not know it. So what does truth denote: truth?
Er! If its a tautology then its always true in any reality?
There is no absolute truth there are but shades of truth on the spectrum which never approach the absolute.
The tautologies are absolute or necessary truths, as are the contradictions in that they are always necessarily false.

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Arising_uk
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Re: What is wise?

Post by Arising_uk » Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:56 pm

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:What? Free will doesn't exist, and that's a fact. ...
But choice does as the ass would starve and it doesn't.

Blaggard
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Re: What is wise?

Post by Blaggard » Sun Feb 15, 2015 11:09 pm

Arising_uk wrote:
Blaggard wrote:...
You might agree existence exists but such a tautology is meaningless when it comes to either truth or reality as we may or more likely may not know it. So what does truth denote: truth?
Er! If its a tautology then its always true in any reality?
There is no absolute truth there are but shades of truth on the spectrum which never approach the absolute.
The tautologies are absolute or necessary truths, as are the contradictions in that they are always necessarily false.
in reality what reality yours, mine that guy over there, Jebus's?

So you are saying you perceive the absolute truth and hence therein all tautologies must be true?

I think truth is a misnomer, truthiness is a better word.

If you can of course prove anything is absolutely true for every one anywhere ever, tautology or not, a prize awaits in the annals of history.

Blaggard
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Re: What is wise?

Post by Blaggard » Sun Feb 15, 2015 11:15 pm

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
I never said anything about my own existence. I exist, and if you do in fact exist, you exist too. You should care about the truth, in my opinion, to increase your efficiency and power. Though many believe it decreases their power, so they spread delusion everywhere to hide themselves, their fans, and their loved ones, from the truth. "Blissful ignorance", as they say.
Do I exist? Do you exist? I for one think you cannot, and, must therefore be a figment of my imagination. Prove I am wrong?

Since you don't exist your thoughts on existence are futile even if they ever existed which of course they don't.

I think I, because I alone exist seek truth, or at least truthiness, I don't think I ever find truth.
Last edited by Blaggard on Sun Feb 15, 2015 11:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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GreatandWiseTrixie
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Re: What is wise?

Post by GreatandWiseTrixie » Sun Feb 15, 2015 11:18 pm

Blaggard wrote:
GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
I never said anything about my own existence. I exist, and if you do in fact exist, you exist too. You should care about the truth, in my opinion, to increase your efficiency and power. Though many believe it decreases their power, so they spread delusion everywhere to hide themselves, their fans, and their loved ones, from the truth. "Blissful ignorance", as they say.
Do I exist? Do you exist? I for one think you cannot, and, must therefore be a figment of my imagination. Prove I am wrong?

since you don't exist your thoughts on existence are futile even if they ever exited which of course they don't.
There's no need. You exist to me, and from you are saying, you exist to you. Therefore, existence.

To seek to destroy existence itself, is truly a noble endeavor. Let us both strive to make this truth, an absolute truth, truly a truth no further, in truth...
Last edited by GreatandWiseTrixie on Sun Feb 15, 2015 11:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Blaggard
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Re: What is wise?

Post by Blaggard » Sun Feb 15, 2015 11:20 pm

If only it were that simple though. Because I don't think I exist either, although I do believe I might, and you certainly I know don't, and that is what I know to be true.

I am not seeking to destroy existence, after all it doesn't exist so why bother. And I wonder if it doesn't why truth would matter to me, but it does...
Last edited by Blaggard on Sun Feb 15, 2015 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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GreatandWiseTrixie
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Re: What is wise?

Post by GreatandWiseTrixie » Sun Feb 15, 2015 11:22 pm

Blaggard wrote:If only it were that simple though. Because I don't think I exist either and you certainly don't and that is what I know to be true.
In order to think, your thoughts must exist. Therefore, you would be inside of a delusion, constructed of thought matter misaligned with the Truth, like a musical piece out of key or harmony, but never the less, still in existence.

Blaggard
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Re: What is wise?

Post by Blaggard » Sun Feb 15, 2015 11:23 pm

GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
Blaggard wrote:If only it were that simple though. Because I don't think I exist either and you certainly don't and that is what I know to be true.
In order to think, your thoughts must exist. Therefore, you would be inside of a delusion, constructed of thought matter misaligned with the Truth, like a musical piece out of key or harmony, but never the less, still in existence.
Why?

basically the simple fact is you cannot prove existence of anything by logic alone, ontology relies on logic but is not just logic; any more than you can prove something does not exist. You can only prove that which you know, and that is flawed by what you know or think you know.

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GreatandWiseTrixie
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Re: What is wise?

Post by GreatandWiseTrixie » Sun Feb 15, 2015 11:30 pm

Blaggard wrote:
GreatandWiseTrixie wrote:
Blaggard wrote:If only it were that simple though. Because I don't think I exist either and you certainly don't and that is what I know to be true.
In order to think, your thoughts must exist. Therefore, you would be inside of a delusion, constructed of thought matter misaligned with the Truth, like a musical piece out of key or harmony, but never the less, still in existence.
Why?

basically the simple fact is you cannot prove existence of anything by logic alone, ontology relies on logic but is not just logic; any more than you can prove something does not exist. You can only prove that which you know, and that is flawed by what you know or think you know.
That I know "something", implies a'something. Therefore, existence.

The logic would still be true, even if you did not function in a logical way. What manner you put an absolute truth on paper, or thoughts match to it, matters not. It is still an absolute truth.

Blaggard
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Re: What is wise?

Post by Blaggard » Sun Feb 15, 2015 11:34 pm

I am not arguing about existence but about truth. I have already said things might exist, they might not. But how do you know they are true?

Cogito ergo sum.

quod erat demonstrandum..?
Last edited by Blaggard on Sun Feb 15, 2015 11:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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GreatandWiseTrixie
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Re: What is wise?

Post by GreatandWiseTrixie » Sun Feb 15, 2015 11:36 pm

Blaggard wrote:I am not arguing about existence but about truth. I have already said things might exist, the might not. But how do you know they are true?
Existence is truth. I cannot be for sure an apple is red to an alien, or that the alien actually perceives what is to be an apple shape, or apple texture, or that the apple will taste like an apple when I eat it, or that the apple is what I remember an apple to be, but the apple is a'something, it is a contrast from other things, and I can be sure of existence. Therefore, existence.
Last edited by GreatandWiseTrixie on Sun Feb 15, 2015 11:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Blaggard
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Re: What is wise?

Post by Blaggard » Sun Feb 15, 2015 11:38 pm

You're banging on about existence as if truth does not matter, what is truth?

This discussion started because you expounded you knew the truth so how do you know it?
Last edited by Blaggard on Sun Feb 15, 2015 11:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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GreatandWiseTrixie
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Re: What is wise?

Post by GreatandWiseTrixie » Sun Feb 15, 2015 11:39 pm

Blaggard wrote:You're banging on about existence as if truth does not matter, what is truth?
Existence is truth. I cannot be for sure an apple is red to an alien, or that the alien actually perceives what is to be an apple shape, or apple texture, or that the apple will taste like an apple when I eat it, or that the apple is what I remember an apple to be, but the apple is a'something, it is a contrast from other things, and I can be sure of existence. Therefore, existence.

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