Systems of thought and suffering

Is the mind the same as the body? What is consciousness? Can machines have it?

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roydop
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Systems of thought and suffering

Post by roydop » Sat Jan 10, 2015 2:10 pm

1. If there is a fundamental desire, it is to be free of vexation and suffering.

Consider all of humanity's endeavours to lessen vexation and suffering: Religion, philosophy, science, psychology, the legal system, medicine. Given the vast expanse of human knowledge contained within the above systems of thought:

Looking at the current condition of the human species, does it appear as though there is less physical and mental suffering than there ever has been, at any given point throughout the entire history of humanity?

2. Despite all of the above mentioned systems of thought, the level of vexation and suffering experienced by humanity has remained unaffected.

3. Systems of thought do nothing to decrease the level of vexation and suffering experienced by humanity.


The following suppositions must be verified by/as one's own experience.

4. Conceptualization is the source of vexation and suffering.

5. Therefore, the path to liberation from vexation and suffering is:

Upon awareness of thought, the immediate shifting of that awareness into Being (non-thought).

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HexHammer
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Re: Systems of thought and suffering

Post by HexHammer » Sat Jan 10, 2015 2:17 pm

Pure nonsense and babble, seems you have been dwelling in the basement for too long.

..or in other words, you rely on heavily outdated books, not a single thought from modern times.

roydop
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Re: Systems of thought and suffering

Post by roydop » Sat Jan 10, 2015 8:45 pm

Care to elaborate? Apparently you don't care to actually test out this theory in/as your own experience as suggested in points 4 and 5, so just sticking with 1-3, tell me what you figure is nonsense.

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HexHammer
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Re: Systems of thought and suffering

Post by HexHammer » Sat Jan 10, 2015 10:08 pm

Many are annoyed with jobs, working each day, all day, but it has to be done in order to keep society with tax money that paves the roads, buy expensive medical equipment, etc. Thus you can't eliminate ALL vexation, which would be utopian.

You write in pure utopian terms, farfetched and devoid of reality.

In Denmark we have some of the best welfare in the world, only surpassed by Switzerland, but still we have homeless people, that's caused by heart achingly stupid people starting from voters to politicians and ending with the social community workers, to eliminate stupidity, you have to make new kind of education. One that make people prioritize better, I've been appalled as of late, that one of my old class mate, she's a community worker and burned freggin 15 mill Danish crowners on making the local library to a community place, where small kids and their parents can hang out, and removed much library space for the sake of creating an indoor playground in the MIDDLE OF THE FUCKING LIBARY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
..NOW THERE'S NOISE IN THE MORNING ..IN THE FUCKING EVENING ..ALL THE FUCKING TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

She was good in school, but has no clue how to prioritize principles, in other comers of the world any sane librarian value silence over noise in the library.

You must eliminate stupidity to eliminate suffering!

roydop
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Re: Systems of thought and suffering

Post by roydop » Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:59 pm

If you investigate your own thought process, you will see that you cannot have a 'problem' separate from the thought that produced the problem.

The thought projects the illusion that there is a problem. You have to see the process itself, objectively.

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A_Seagull
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Re: Systems of thought and suffering

Post by A_Seagull » Sun Jan 11, 2015 12:47 am

roydop wrote:If you investigate your own thought process, you will see that you cannot have a 'problem' separate from the thought that produced the problem.

The thought projects the illusion that there is a problem. You have to see the process itself, objectively.
It would seem that you are advocating that one's mental activities should be confined to fantasy worlds where nothing is real.

While this may be useful for alleviating suffering in over-stressful situations, it is entirely useless for actually resolving problems and overcoming them in the real world. And as a consequence, this failure to resolve problems will cause them to recur and so incur yet more suffering and if your advice is followed, a still further foray into a fantasy world and away from the real world. Following that surely madness and men in white coats await.

roydop
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Re: Systems of thought and suffering

Post by roydop » Sun Jan 11, 2015 1:42 am

After 15 years of watching my own mind and being aware of the space between my thoughts I have arrived at a place where I am incapable of experiencing negative emotions for more than a few seconds. I have next to no problems, no stress, and I experience pure bliss for many hours each day.

" ...a still further foray into a fantasy world and away from the real world. Following that surely madness and men in white coats await."

You have it reversed. Following what mind projects is the fantasy world. However, you will not break free of the delusion you (and all of humanity) is under until you begin to investigate your own thought-action process.

Look at humanity. It's fucked up man. Thinking hasn't helped squat. People have been trying to think humanity out of it's problems for millennia. I offer up the question again:

Does it appear as though there is less physical and mental suffering than there ever has been, at any given point throughout the entire history of humanity?

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HexHammer
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Re: Systems of thought and suffering

Post by HexHammer » Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:54 am

roydop wrote:If you investigate your own thought process, you will see that you cannot have a 'problem' separate from the thought that produced the problem.

The thought projects the illusion that there is a problem. You have to see the process itself, objectively.
Again, what you write is pure nonsense and babble, you have a mental problem in the first place that you need to eliminate.

roydop
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Re: Systems of thought and suffering

Post by roydop » Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:43 pm

Lol. Yes, the person who has no problems and experiences hours of bliss each day is the crazy one. That's funny.

And sad.

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