A(nother) Follower Of Nietzsche

[Enigma3]

Hello to all. I consider myself a philosopher by natural inclination. I really love good ideas in general. Like the idea in physics that there are many possible worlds or universes or histories and all of the possibilities that are latent in nanotechnology and potential alien life on other planets (or living in space somehow, like the Gods) and this type of thing.

My favorite book is Nietzsche's Beyond Good and Evil. In my opinion it is one of the greatest books ever written. Of course I am prejudiced because after all I am a Modern like most of us (in that we are all skeptical of grand metaphysical systems).

Anyone who loves philosophy and great literature should love Beyond Good and Evil, the epochal book of modernity in which nearly the entire range of Nietzsche's mature philosophy is on display. The R.J. Hollingdale translation with running commentary (located at the end) is the best edition. The commentary is necessary if only as a beginning, and the text is a serious piece of artistic workmanship. But I don't believe anyone can grasp all that there is to grasp without also reading Kaufman's edition, which contains footnotes as well as a totally different approach in the translation.

But who can be such an individual as the type that Nietzsche calls for? apparently no one. The best ideas are the ones that nobody can bear. The Will to Power, his Schopenhauerian adaptation gets 'the hottest and most beautiful women in his bed, at its service. (The quote "Supposing truth were a woman, what then?", is the first sentence of the book.) Nobody seems to want to be this heated tragic hero of modernity, they seem to shun the idea of it.

To me its important to begin with Schopenhauer where nature is pointless and indifferent to human wishes. Nature is harsh and understanding is to suffer. And Nietzsche's Will to Power ideas are the proper correction of Schopenhauer's pessimism.

I love Nietzsche's and Schopenhauer's basic ideas because they coincide with the thrust of modernity that, we're on our own in the universe; it's up to us and not some resurrected (allegedly) god-man to save us. I love nihilism for what it does to us (hint: there will be no survivors) and I love modernity for the opportunities it provides me.

Thanks for reading.

[Wyman]

I don't think I'll ever understand happy nihilists. Optimism is reserved for believers or people who refuse to carry things to their logical conclusions.

[HexHammer]

Since you are such a fan, you should easily be able to enlighten me how Nietzsche has relevance for modern time, never understood the fascination.

Please do!

[Enigma3]

I don't think I'll ever understand happy nihilists. Optimism is reserved for believers or people who refuse to carry things to their logical conclusions.

It is not happiness but an affirmation in the face of godlessness; of continuation in the absence of cosmic support.

And what makes believers optimistic? Don't forget Kierkegaard and all of the many Christian Existentialists of the Twentieth Century! Optimism and belief died sometime in the Nineteenth Century (in Europe, at least). Europeans never really succeeded both politically and economically (without U.S. support). I would say that Europe has turned out to be, in fact, a tragic continent in many ways, though the historical European text remains submerged underneath the interpretations. Genuine tragedy is incommunicable (or esoteric) outside of the 'free spirited' philosophical few of the Western world.


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Since you are such a fan, you should easily be able to enlighten me how Nietzsche has relevance for modern time, never understood the fascination.

Please do!

First, I don't believe that modernity exists outside of the Western world and I don't believe that it exists as a metaphysical category.

But, having said that, modern philosophers, as opposed to ancient philosophers like Plato, tend NOT to believe in grand metaphysical systems. (There is a connection between the advent of Positivism and Neitzsche's philosophy which preceded positivism.) Modernity is "disenchanted" (Max Weber); there are no myths, no supernatural ideals to put one's faith in any longer. Nietzsche goes further than any other philosopher by deconstructing the human world (which is why Freudian psycho-analysis is so indebted to his ideas). Nietzsche also brought Nihilism to the forefront of modern thought. Most of all he was a pioneer of individualism, he is unequalled in this respect; he is Christ-like in the type of impact that he generates.

Perhaps most importantly, for most, Nietzsche heralded the death of God (beginning in his book "The Gay Science"), so if the death of God is real and important (and modern), then Nietzsche's philosophical development in light of this event provides some perspective to us now. It makes him modern, for the same cannot be said of the European Cathedral period, for example. We share a godless world.

That was pretty easy of me to think and type up HexHammer. Do you now have a better perspective on why Nietzsche should be associated with the modern world?

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[Impenitent]

read his first book

-Imp

[HexHammer]

First, I don't believe that modernity exists outside of the Western world and I don't believe that it exists as a metaphysical category.

But, having said that, modern philosophers, as opposed to ancient philosophers like Plato, tend NOT to believe in grand metaphysical systems. (There is a connection between the advent of Positivism and Neitzsche's philosophy which preceded positivism.) Modernity is "disenchanted" (Max Weber); there are no myths, no supernatural ideals to put one's faith in any longer. Nietzsche goes further than any other philosopher by deconstructing the human world (which is why Freudian psycho-analysis is so indebted to his ideas). Nietzsche also brought Nihilism to the forefront of modern thought. Most of all he was a pioneer of individualism, he is unequalled in this respect; he is Christ-like in the type of impact that he generates.

Perhaps most importantly, for most, Nietzsche heralded the death of God (beginning in his book "The Gay Science"), so if the death of God is real and important (and modern), then Nietzsche's philosophical development in light of this event provides some perspective to us now. It makes him modern, for the same cannot be said of the European Cathedral period, for example. We share a godless world.

That was pretty easy of me to think and type up HexHammer. Do you now have a better perspective on why Nietzsche should be associated with the modern world?

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So what you are really saying is that you spend a lot of time on something totally irrelevant, ok..

[Enigma3]

So what you are really saying is that you spend a lot of time on something totally irrelevant, ok..

Troll.

[RickLewis]

Hi Enigma. Welcome to the forum! Take no notice of HexHammer - the rest of us don't!

[Enigma3]

Hi Enigma. Welcome to the forum! Take no notice of HexHammer - the rest of us don't!

thank you

[Wyman]

an affirmation in the face of godlessness

Enigma3, this is as vague a statement as I've heard in a long time. Affirmation of what?

[HexHammer]

Hi Enigma. Welcome to the forum! Take no notice of HexHammer - the rest of us don't!

As it clearly appears that Rick Lewis doesn't comprehend very basic sound reasoning.

What I asked was a reasonable question, and it doesn't make sense to spend much time on something that has no relevance, that is illogical, ofc not for Rick.

This is exactly why his magazine doesn't have any relevance, and never will.

[Enigma3]

Enigma3, this is as vague a statement as I've heard in a long time. Affirmation of what?

Affirmation of life.

[Wyman]

Affirmation of life means asserting that life exists? or that life is true?

This is either a buzz word meaning something different than the normal definition of 'affirm' or else a senseless statement. I am not, like hex, trolling here. But a cliche, catch phrase, bromide, or banner is not enough for a philosophical discussion. Still sounds an awful lot like 'happiness' to me.

[Enigma3]

It's not happiness. It has the highest level of human excellence as its goal and will end in a tragic climax. It is a tragic zest for life. The clearest way to put it is that it is the opposite of Schopenhauer-ian pessimism --or pessimism in general (such as many Britons exhibit) without the philosophical implications, if you like.


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[Wyman]

The opposite of pessimism is optimism (I'm pretty sure), which brings us back to my first statement - optimism is for believers. I see optimistic people as happy, but if you insist, I'll give up 'happy' for 'optimistic.' Again, I'll never understand optimistic nihilists - I'm not denying that they may exist, I'll just never understand them. Optimism implies hope and I'm not sure what they have to hope for, except perhaps immediate gratification of the senses. That trails off somewhat as you age.