Gee wrote:
Arising_uk wrote:Gee wrote:Bonds. Emotion.
How are these 'consciousness' and what body do they exist outside of? That is, can you show me an independently existing bond or emotion?
If they are not 'consciousness', then what are they?
I suspect that they are outside of all bodies.
Can you show me an independently existing thought?
Gee
Gee,
Don't be absurd. No one can show you a thought of any kind. The best we can do by way of thought exchange is to express the tracings of thoughts in terms of linguistics or mathematics. Most of these expressions of thought are ignored, because people fear that their study will sacrifice the bullshit with which their brains have already been programmed. That was me, back when I was a practicing Catholic. Since everyone practices some variety of belief system, all are afraid to study anything that might invalidate their beliefs and perhaps send them back to school.
Other expressions of thought cannot be translated. If I tried to express ideas here in mathematical form, I'd have the same luck as if I wrote in Sanskrit.
And to address your question, "
If they {emotions} are not 'consciousness', then what are they?", Nevermind that you are unlikely to challenge your opinions, emotions are a property of brains. Emotions are what motivate animal brains. Emotions give brains their motivations, and tell them how to react to various circumstances. Emotions are a brain's equivalent of a computer's programming.
In my earlier career I programmed digital computers to control observing instruments and the internal machines that made them work. The machines needed motivation, i.e. an inclination to behave in a certain way. I programmed their desires into them, just like my own brain and those of the birds feeding outside my window have been programmed with desires to feed, build nests, and get lucky now and then.
My instruments, mostly telescopes, were motivated to point themselves at astronomical objects and record intensity and wavelengths of light emitted from those objects. They were also motivated to protect themselves from damage. The one in orbit needed to close itself down when close to the sun. The one on land needed to shut down in daytime and in the presence of rain. In effect, I programmed these machines to fear bright lights and precipitation. Fear is an emotion. It is a sensible emotion, directing a machine or critter to behave in such a manner as to secure its survival.
None of the machines I programmed had the ability to reproduce itself, so I did not program them with the desire to get laid. Their power supply had been provided by external sources beyond their control, so I did not program them to obtain energy, or to "feed." Robots running on batteries, on the ground, must obtain energy to survive, and therefore some of them have been programmed to feed by inserting their mandibles into power outlets, or by adjusting their solar-energy arrays to optimal sun angles. They've been programmed to know when they are hungry, and to relieve their hunger. Emotion, coded into machines.
My instruments also needed to react to adverse circumstances when avoiding them (my strategy) did not work. Much more difficult than programming them with motivations, but certainly doable. Reactions are the consequence of programming, therefore of emotions.
Consciousness is an entirely different thing, and has nothing to do with the brain's programs (emotions) except that it must manage them, and ideally direct them to useful purpose. Like a rider on a horse must guide the animal from a higher level of consciousness than the animal possesses, or find his ass parked in the middle of a cactus plant. Of all people on this forum, you must know these things at some level.
Unfortunately, you've settled upon the notion that emotion rules, and done so w/o honest study. No fixing that from the outside.
Greylorn