Kant and the Thing in Itself

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Arising_uk
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Re: Kant and the Thing in Itself

Post by Arising_uk »

HexHammer wrote:There's nothing to show, it's already is an equation.
But not a Mathematical one, which is what you were claiming.
It's very easy just take something like his description of intelligences, that's outdated if you don't agree we have nothing further to discuss and you go straight back on ignore.
Two things, one, Newton said a lot of things that we would now consider nonsense, does this mean everything he said should be ignored? Two, I'm interested, I have no idea what Kant said about intelligence, care to enlighten me? Which book did he write this description in?
lancek4
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Re: Kant and the Thing in Itself

Post by lancek4 »

Blaggard wrote: I think that's a point I have tired to make in general, philosophers don't really know enough about science, unless they have a PhD in the philosophy of science, and yet they still think they know science. Scientists well the same reversed, unless they really know philosophy. Keep it logical people.
Yes,thank you. Good point. I evoked this same idea in another reply. I should listen to what I have to say, and stop making a point just for arguement. :D

Blaggard wrote: I don't think the truth is just in the math, I think the truth is in finding by a reciprocal process how to model reality with better math and math with better reality. Experiment is where it starts, the maths is wrong always by some margin of error, reality is never wrong, approximating reality even if it is unreachable, not maths, is where science should be at.
I like what Ginko brings up with Kant. Of the synthetic a priori, and his comment about induction, though I would use different terms, logic and psychology seem to point to a feature of human consciousness that defies such a mathematical priority can come to pass -- except in so much as the situation you point out in the previous paragraph: a division of labor. Is there a moment when everyone will understand the 'true' science approach and its sayings, or even a 'true' philosophy and what its saying? I think not. Kant in this way was saying something particular about this very situation, but he puts it into a context that Kierkegaard makes explicit, though mostly through his response to Hegel, is a privileged context, of a particular discursive situation that neglects what is occurring in the positing of his categorical imperative that presumes an ethical propriety over all human thinkers.
lancek4
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Re: Kant and the Thing in Itself

Post by lancek4 »

Arising_uk wrote:
HexHammer wrote:I read "Kan't" when I was a mere teen it been too damn long and I'm an ol' feeble man by now, you present something relevant from Kan't now that you seem so in luv with him.
Not me, I'm in love with Anglo-American Philosophy and whilst I studied the Continentals, as I wasn't interested in an academic career, I found his Idealism not to my taste, did like the phenomenologists tho. I think this 'old' man shtick a cop-out(so says an old man) and think it may well be useful for you to re-read his Critique of Reason if you truly wish to stop the cozy-chatters talking nonsense, as I'm re-reading him now and he appears different through older eyes. As such I think his idea of synthetic a posteriori propositions, i.e the empirical propositions of science are an interesting distinction(not sure if I agree with the distinction or not just yet), and his attempt to ground metaphysics as an independent discipline is also interesting(again not sure if I think it viable just yet), and his overall analysis of what Reason can and cannot say would be useful to all in a world where Science is the driving force as too many appear to have no idea how to understand what it is scientists can and cannot say about things and this leaves them upon to the wiles of unscrupulous politicians who manipulate the scientists I think it would behoove democracy if more of its citizens became more philosophically minded, i.e. trained in critical thinking, epistemology and the philosophy of science. That or that they should learn more science.
Interesting AUK (hello) that you are rereading C of R. I have likewise recently been rethinking this work. Interesting because you are rereading it rather than drawing from what you remember of it. And I asked: what exactly Is a synthetic a priori and why would he be positing and exploring it? What Is a categorical imperative? Of course, one can view him in the historical context and say he was adding to while responding to philosophically presented situations of his time, but we all do, we must have something by which to ground what we say, we must have references.

But it appears to me that what he is saying differs in content when it is taken against such questions that have to do with some posited history, that is to say, when he is speaking of himself as a human being as I am likewise a human being.

Synthetic is where what is presented is synthesized, which is to say, put together: the predicate is not evident in the subject. I have been considering this reading in view to how Lyotard presents his situation in his book "the Differend": the subject is the individual, and the predicate is that by which the subject is justified. Kant's examples are to illustrate how phrases work, how subjects and predicates function to reveal what is true. A priori is that which justifies before the experience. The question then is how such synthesis is justified a priori.

The categorical imperative, if I remember correctly, for Kant implies a category that cannot be otherwise, a judgment that must follow the given condition. Thus he posits a type of ethics where one does what the category demands. Hypothetical imperative has to do with events that do not require a specific activity.

These two thus supply a critique that stems from a 'pure Reason', a reason that demands particular consequences, particular activity. Hence what is right or correct ethically. I am pondering that he is proposing a type of experience that occurs synthetically but is justified by a categorical imperative a priori such that what is synthesized is already justiified, that is, a type of experience that can be or behave no other way than that it does, that proceeds I this way synthetically, that is, using the predicates of the subject to show how such an experience might be true. The predicates thus appear in 'practical reason' which is the exposition of hypothetical categories as such an arena requires a different imperative, one that is justified in predication, in analytical modes, where the predicate is always evident in the subject, such that sees no imperative but that the subject exists in the potential of hypothetical reasoning.

The predicate is not evident in the subject, this being justified independent of experience. The individual that uses predicates that are not evident in the individual, but who is justified independently of the experience that is gained by the predication (practical reason) of the individual. The only way that this can happen is if it occurs by a categorical imperative, by a category that demands a particular and not hypothetical justification.
Ginkgo
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Re: Kant and the Thing in Itself

Post by Ginkgo »

Lance,

U.K. has replied as yet, so I will take the opportunity to add a couple of comments.

One reason, Kant came up with the 'categorical imperative', is so he could distinguish it from the 'hypothetical imperative'. A hypothetical imperative is something you can employ to achieve a particular end. In other words, to achieve a particular end one can employ skills and judgement. For example driving from A to B over the shortest possible distance. I would argue that the hypothetical imperative is apriori in terms of the judgement component, but not the skills component. I think this might be the synthesis you are referring to. The categorical imperative is different in that it is purely apriori. In other words,it is not a means to achieving a particular end, but is an end in itself.


I'll leave it there for a while until someone replies.
Ginkgo
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Re: Kant and the Thing in Itself

Post by Ginkgo »

HexHammer wrote:
Ginkgo wrote:Sorry I misunderstood. You want me to present something relevant in terms of present standards. Is that correct?
Anything relevant, that should be an unmistakeable term!
I thought uwot's piece on Kant and quantum mechanics was very good, so I decided to do some googling.

http://www.friesian.com/space-2.htm
Blaggard
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Re: Kant and the Thing in Itself

Post by Blaggard »

Hex demonstrating that old is equivalent to bone idle. I can't be assed to learn anything about the man, but I'll be damned if I wont form an opinion based on what I have learnt anyway!

Hex you must realise how inane your arguments are.

I think all Mexicans are lazy! I have never met one, nor even seen one, nor had any time to study their behaviour in any form, but they are damned lazy! Why don't you marry a Mexican since you love them so much!
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