Greatest Explanation of "The Phenomenology of Spirit" ever
- The Voice of Time
- Posts: 2234
- Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:18 pm
- Location: Norway
Greatest Explanation of "The Phenomenology of Spirit" ever
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... nkVH2Kweq2
This series by Gregory B. Sadler is truly a marathon going through the book, but I think it's the best explanation you're ever gonna get in either a book or a video or an audio format. He is very careful and spends a lot of time doing things properly. In fact the amount of time he spends doing things detailed is amazing, but this is a piece of work that so many people in history have likely struggled with, because it's a real challenge, but has inspired a lot of people as well.
I recommend it greatly if the book has ever found your interest, because you won't get a better chance at getting a good understanding of the work, in my opinion.
This series by Gregory B. Sadler is truly a marathon going through the book, but I think it's the best explanation you're ever gonna get in either a book or a video or an audio format. He is very careful and spends a lot of time doing things properly. In fact the amount of time he spends doing things detailed is amazing, but this is a piece of work that so many people in history have likely struggled with, because it's a real challenge, but has inspired a lot of people as well.
I recommend it greatly if the book has ever found your interest, because you won't get a better chance at getting a good understanding of the work, in my opinion.
Re: Greatest Explanation of "The Phenomenology of Spirit" ev
The translation of Geist as 'spirit' is incorrect. It should be 'mind'.
- The Voice of Time
- Posts: 2234
- Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:18 pm
- Location: Norway
Re: Greatest Explanation of "The Phenomenology of Spirit" ev
No, it's spirit. Geist as "mind" is wrong. If Hegel meant mind he would've been more explicit about it, what he talks about is more resembling of what Aristotle talked about, which is more encompassing than mind. Mind is actually a very concrete thing even though we can't always define it very well, basically about thoughts and memories. Spirit on the other hand, talking about the philosophical notion of spirit, is more about a movement of things coming from some conscious being, a human being in this instance. Hegel also talked about the World Spirit, and referred to a Zeitgeist (spirit of time). To take it to mean "mind" rarely if ever makes sense, since the properties of mind are not seen detailed in his works, but instead properties we'd associate with "spirit".
The most common use is "spirit", "mind" is an alternative, but misleading, translation.
The most common use is "spirit", "mind" is an alternative, but misleading, translation.
Re: Greatest Explanation of "The Phenomenology of Spirit" ev
No, it isn't. 'Spirit' is wrong and will always be wrong. It gives completely misleading connotations. What the hell does 'phenomenology of spirit' even mean? I am a professional translator of German philosophical works, and I speak with some authority here. 'Spirit' is wrong. A translation that does not communicate the proper connotations in context is wrong.The Voice of Time wrote:No, it's spirit. Geist as "mind" is wrong. If Hegel meant mind he would've been more explicit about it, what he talks about is more resembling of what Aristotle talked about, which is more encompassing than mind. Mind is actually a very concrete thing even though we can't always define it very well, basically about thoughts and memories. Spirit on the other hand, talking about the philosophical notion of spirit, is more about a movement of things coming from some conscious being, a human being in this instance. Hegel also talked about the World Spirit, and referred to a Zeitgeist (spirit of time). To take it to mean "mind" rarely if ever makes sense, since the properties of mind are not seen detailed in his works, but instead properties we'd associate with "spirit".
The most common use is "spirit", "mind" is an alternative, but misleading, translation.
- The Voice of Time
- Posts: 2234
- Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:18 pm
- Location: Norway
Re: Greatest Explanation of "The Phenomenology of Spirit" ev
Then you are a real shitty translator and it's a wonder anybody pays you to do shitty work. Because if you've read the work, you should know that "mind" is not an appropriate use for the kind of complex stuff he talks about.
"Phenomenology" is the study of the structures of experience, and "the phenomenology of spirit" would be the study of the structures of experience in consciously moving things. The entire work is about that, if you've read it, you'll see that it's the exact thing he's talking about all the time... the structures of experience in consciously moving things... or, the phenomenology of spirit.
The wiki-article is called "phenomenology of spirit", my Norwegian philosophy book on the subject (and the norwegian language separates "spirit" and "mind" into two words) calls it "the phenomenology of spirit", and to my knowledge most books in English refer to it as "the phenomenology of spirit"... phenomenology of mind is really more of an alternative that the mass of people don't really subscribe to, because the limits of the "mind" can't account for what's written about.
"Phenomenology" is the study of the structures of experience, and "the phenomenology of spirit" would be the study of the structures of experience in consciously moving things. The entire work is about that, if you've read it, you'll see that it's the exact thing he's talking about all the time... the structures of experience in consciously moving things... or, the phenomenology of spirit.
The wiki-article is called "phenomenology of spirit", my Norwegian philosophy book on the subject (and the norwegian language separates "spirit" and "mind" into two words) calls it "the phenomenology of spirit", and to my knowledge most books in English refer to it as "the phenomenology of spirit"... phenomenology of mind is really more of an alternative that the mass of people don't really subscribe to, because the limits of the "mind" can't account for what's written about.
Re: Greatest Explanation of "The Phenomenology of Spirit" ev
Wrong. 'Spirit' does not mean that in English, that's why it is wrong. Are you a native German speaker? 'Spirit' in this context is unqualifiedly, absolutely, utterly wrong.The Voice of Time wrote:Then you are a real shitty translator and it's a wonder anybody pays you to do shitty work. Because if you've read the work, you should know that "mind" is not an appropriate use for the kind of complex stuff he talks about.
"Phenomenology" is the study of the structures of experience, and "the phenomenology of spirit" would be the study of the structures of experience in consciously moving things. The entire work is about that, if you've read it, you'll see that it's the exact thing he's talking about all the time... the structures of experience in consciously moving things... or, the phenomenology of spirit.
The wiki-article is called "phenomenology of spirit", my Norwegian philosophy book on the subject (and the norwegian language separates "spirit" and "mind" into two words) calls it "the phenomenology of spirit", and to my knowledge most books in English refer to it as "the phenomenology of spirit"... phenomenology of mind is really more of an alternative that the mass of people don't really subscribe to, because the limits of the "mind" can't account for what's written about.
I see you are in Norway? I take it then that you are not a native speaker of English. That explains it.
- The Voice of Time
- Posts: 2234
- Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:18 pm
- Location: Norway
Re: Greatest Explanation of "The Phenomenology of Spirit" ev
Spirit (from dictionary: http://onelook.com/?w=spirit&ls=a):
You are forgetting that the author decides how he uses the word. Which means "spirit" is not limited by any dictionary reference or even ordinary language (for fucks sake Hegel barely knows what "ordinary language" means, he's infamous for explaining things very complicatedly), but by how the philosopher chooses to use the word. And if you haven't noticed (have you read any significant amount of philosophy?), philosophers looooove to use words in strange and unordinary ways.
I am not native German, and I don't care if you are so you have no authority there, because what Hegel talks about is "spirit", and definitely not "mind". Even if he really meant mind, which by all likelihood he did not, then he would himself be wrong in which word he used, because the word would be inadequate to describe what he talked about.
andthe vital principle or animating force within living things
Spirit is used to mean like a dozen different things in ordinary life, and Hegel more likely meant "the movement of conscious beings" when he used the word "Geist", as that's what turns out to make sense in the translated context.animation and energy in action or expression
You are forgetting that the author decides how he uses the word. Which means "spirit" is not limited by any dictionary reference or even ordinary language (for fucks sake Hegel barely knows what "ordinary language" means, he's infamous for explaining things very complicatedly), but by how the philosopher chooses to use the word. And if you haven't noticed (have you read any significant amount of philosophy?), philosophers looooove to use words in strange and unordinary ways.
I am not native German, and I don't care if you are so you have no authority there, because what Hegel talks about is "spirit", and definitely not "mind". Even if he really meant mind, which by all likelihood he did not, then he would himself be wrong in which word he used, because the word would be inadequate to describe what he talked about.
Last edited by The Voice of Time on Thu May 01, 2014 2:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Greatest Explanation of "The Phenomenology of Spirit" ev
Repeat after me; the native speaker is always right. Always. I am a native speaker of English, and you are not. I have written extensively on translation and have a degree in philosophy. In short, I am more qualified than you to discuss this issue.The Voice of Time wrote:Spirit (from dictionary: http://onelook.com/?w=spirit&ls=a):
andthe vital principle or animating force within living things
Spirit is used to mean like a dozen different things in ordinary life, and Hegel more likely meant "the movement of conscious beings" when he used the word "Geist", as that's what turns out to make sense in the translated context.animation and energy in action or expression
You are forgetting that the author decides how he uses the word. Which means "spirit" is not limited by any dictionary reference or even ordinary language (for fucks sake Hegel barely knows what "ordinary language" means, he's infamous for explaining things very complicatedly), but by how the philosopher chooses to use the word. And if you haven't noticed (have you read any significant amount of philosophy?), philosophers looooove to use words in strange and unordinary ways.
I am not native German, and I don't care if you are so you have no authority there, because what Hegel talks about is "spirit", and definitely not "mind". Even if he really meant mind, which by all likelihood he did not, then he would himself be wrong in which word he used, because the word would be inadequate to describe what he talked about.
Last edited by Melchior on Thu May 01, 2014 2:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
- The Voice of Time
- Posts: 2234
- Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:18 pm
- Location: Norway
Re: Greatest Explanation of "The Phenomenology of Spirit" ev
On your assumption that my country of origin impedes me from knowing better than you which word is meant, then I can say little, because it is a mere act of discrimination and malicious diversion in discussion, so I say stick to arguments and not to discrimination.
- The Voice of Time
- Posts: 2234
- Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:18 pm
- Location: Norway
Re: Greatest Explanation of "The Phenomenology of Spirit" ev
Now you're just being an obnoxious sarcastic asshole.Melchior wrote:Repeat after me; the native speaker is always right.
Re: Greatest Explanation of "The Phenomenology of Spirit" ev
"Remember the first law of linguistics: the native speaker is always right."The Voice of Time wrote:Now you're just being an obnoxious sarcastic asshole.Melchior wrote:Repeat after me; the native speaker is always right.
http://www.angelfire.com/in/turkey/dil01.html
Translating Geist as 'spirit' is almost always wrong outside of religious contexts or certain other contexts where 'spirit' is used metaphorically, such as 'team spirit' or 'spirit of the age'.
Last edited by Melchior on Thu May 01, 2014 2:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
- The Voice of Time
- Posts: 2234
- Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:18 pm
- Location: Norway
Re: Greatest Explanation of "The Phenomenology of Spirit" ev
Then you should know that you are acting out a fallacy known as "appeal to authority".Melchior wrote:I have written extensively on translation and have a degree in philosophy. In short, I am more qualified than you to discuss this issue.
Re: Greatest Explanation of "The Phenomenology of Spirit" ev
The mistake you make there is a common one. The fallacy of 'appeal to authority' is when the 'authority' is not an authority on the topic at hand. It would be like asking an authority on Plato for an opinion about Audi automobile engines.The Voice of Time wrote:Then you should know that you are acting out a fallacy known as "appeal to authority".Melchior wrote:I have written extensively on translation and have a degree in philosophy. In short, I am more qualified than you to discuss this issue.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority
"Appeal to non-authorities
Fallacious arguments from authority often are the result of citing a non-authority as an authority.[3] First, when the inference refers to an inexpert authority, it is an appeal to inappropriate authority, which occurs when an inference relies upon a person or a group without relevant expertise or knowledge of the subject matter under discussion.[4][9]"
Last edited by Melchior on Thu May 01, 2014 3:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
- The Voice of Time
- Posts: 2234
- Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:18 pm
- Location: Norway
Re: Greatest Explanation of "The Phenomenology of Spirit" ev
Hegel refers frequently to God and the spirit of God in the book.Melchior wrote:Translating Geist as 'spirit' is almost always wrong outside of religious contexts
"Spirit of the age" is pretty much the same as "zeitgeist", which was a term derived from Hegel's works (Hegel said "spirit of time" instead of "time-spirit").Melchior wrote: or certain other contexts where 'spirit' is used metaphorically, such as 'team spirit' or 'spirit of the age'.
Re: Greatest Explanation of "The Phenomenology of Spirit" ev
But that is not the context we are discussing here.The Voice of Time wrote:Hegel refers frequently to God and the spirit of God in the book.Melchior wrote:Translating Geist as 'spirit' is almost always wrong outside of religious contexts
The expression 'spirit of the age' is quite old, and I do not believe it comes from Hegel:"Spirit of the age" is pretty much the same as "zeitgeist", which was a term derived from Hegel's works (Hegel said "spirit of time" instead of "time-spirit").Melchior wrote: or certain other contexts where 'spirit' is used metaphorically, such as 'team spirit' or 'spirit of the age'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spirit_of_the_Age